Summary of Reviews

ADVAW8S said:

Someone needs to do a review where they take a Honda Civic, maybe a fit for @Krabby A single cab pick up, a Mazda cx 7, a volvo v90, a Mercedes GLE, a new Chevy blazer, a Ford bronco. Put them through all the paces. Like going to get wood at a lumbar yard that go on the roof, picking up groceries and the 3 kids, and then head off for a 25 mile off road trip fully loaded. Not a hard pack dirt road but a trial. Also, No exception for weight the vehicle can carry.

At the end, the car that completes the trip is crowned the winner as the vehicle to rule them all

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I take your point, but it is likely to fall into the same problems. And only partly because anyone in the industry can't irritate the SUV makers, so the tasks will slant towards the stuff that 'shopping trolley' 4WDs excel at, because that's where the money is.

It's like trying to review a lathe along-side hammers and power drills; most people don't really understand or need a lathe. The just need a tool occasionally, and don't need to be able to make their own tools. It's not putting anyone down, the need is genuinely different.

So much of this problem is because people are trying to buy authenticity, and project how they want to feel about themselves to the world through purchases.

DaveB said:

This is pretty good and informative

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmCKvo-To2U

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Folks are arguing that the Grenadier is a pure off-roader, and should not be compared to an IFS SUV. I agree with that. But then it needs to be judged pretty hard - but fairly - as an off-roader because (1) that is its purpose, and it will never drive on-road like an IFS SUV, and (2) its price. This is where things get problematic for people whose off-roading involves rocky trails. The Grenadier is not designed with rocky trails in mind. Its just not. Whether you are looking at tire-size, low-range ratio, and now some of the specs of the undercarriage. But to folks who live in the Rocky Mountains, most off-road driving involves rocky trails. It doesn't mean one is seeking out hard rocky trails to drive, but most trails that take you to the higher summer trailheads are super-rocky and steep.

This video is good - seems like one of the most thorough looks at the undercarriage.

Tie rod, track bar, and drag link look stout. Not sure about the rubber boots covering the joints. What kind of joints?

Manual handbrake is fantastic.

Overall, the suspension looks great.

Two pistons driving the front brake calipers, a single piston driving the rear brake calipers. Sub-optimal at the vehicle's weight, and price point.

They say the diff covers are 2 mm thick. My aftermarket axles came with a diff cover that was 9.5 mm thick (that's 4.75 times thicker). A diff cover of 2 mm is not made for rocky trails and will need an aftermarket solution.

The steering stabilizer is below the front axle housing, and has the exact same ground clearance as the front diff. That is going to be a problem and will require an aftermarket solution.

Has Ineos provided specs on the axles? As of a few months ago, you still couldn't get basic specs. In this video, the reviewers show the guy's hand on the axle housing, but as far as I know Ineos has still not released (1) the actual diameter of the axle housing, and (2) the wall-thickness of the axle housing. Good companies tell you both; for example, from Dynatrac: "Heavy-Duty 3.125-inch Diameter, 0.500-inch Wall Draw-Over-Mandrel (DOM) Axle Tubing" They are also telling you how the steel is made (DOM), which is stronger than the alternative - Hot-Rolled Electric Welded (HREW).

The nuts and bolt-ends for the rocksliders hang down and are vulnerable to rock strike. Its pretty standard to invert the bolts and recess the bolt head - then you have a smooth surface facing the ground. Same way you need to bolt up skid plates.

The gas tank skid plate will need to be replaced if one faces the possibility of high-centering on rocks (and with 31.6 inch tires, that is likely on a lot of the trails around here). The aft portion of the gas tank is quite low - almost as low as the rear axle housing. That is unfortunate, and unusual in a purpose-built off-roader.

No skid plate protecting the transfer case, which is fairly low.

No skid plate protecting the transmission - and the bottom of the transmission is plastic. One of those two things has to change. The reviewer says as much.

No specs on the drive shafts, but the guy in the video was not impressed with their apparent strength.

The stuff in this photo needs skid-plate coverage:

stickshifter said:

Folks are arguing that the Grenadier is a pure off-roader, and should not be compared to an IFS SUV. I agree with that. But then it needs to be judged pretty hard - but fairly - as an off-roader because (1) that is its purpose, and it will never drive on-road like an IFS SUV, and (2) its price. This is where things get problematic for people whose off-roading involves rocky trails. The Grenadier is not designed with rocky trails in mind. Its just not. Whether you are looking at tire-size, low-range ratio, and now some of the specs of the undercarriage. But to folks who live in the Rocky Mountains, most off-road driving involves rocky trails. It doesn't mean one is seeking out hard rocky trails to drive, but most trails that take you to the higher summer trailheads are super-rocky and steep.

This video is good - seems like one of the most thorough looks at the undercarriage.

Tie rod, track bar, and drag link look stout. Not sure about the rubber boots covering the joints. What kind of joints?

Manual handbrake is fantastic.

Overall, the suspension looks great.

Two pistons driving the front brake calipers, a single piston driving the rear brake calipers. Sub-optimal at the vehicle's weight, and price point.

They say the diff covers are 2 mm thick. My aftermarket axles came with a diff cover that was 9.5 mm thick (that's 4.75 times thicker). A diff cover of 2 mm is not made for rocky trails and will need an aftermarket solution.

The steering stabilizer is below the front axle housing, and has the exact same ground clearance as the front diff. That is going to be a problem and will require an aftermarket solution.

Has Ineos provided specs on the axles? As of a few months ago, you still couldn't get basic specs. In this video, the reviewers show the guy's hand on the axle housing, but as far as I know Ineos has still not released (1) the actual diameter of the axle housing, and (2) the wall-thickness of the axle housing. Good companies tell you both; for example, from Dynatrac: "Heavy-Duty 3.125-inch Diameter, 0.500-inch Wall Draw-Over-Mandrel (DOM) Axle Tubing" They are also telling you how the steel is made (DOM), which is stronger than the alternative - Hot-Rolled Electric Welded (HREW).

The nuts and bolt-ends for the rocksliders hang down and are vulnerable to rock strike. Its pretty standard to invert the bolts and recess the bolt head - then you have a smooth surface facing the ground. Same way you need to bolt up skid plates.

The gas tank skid plate will need to be replaced if one faces the possibility of high-centering on rocks (and with 31.6 inch tires, that is likely on a lot of the trails around here). The aft portion of the gas tank is quite low - almost as low as the rear axle housing. That is unfortunate, and unusual in a purpose-built off-roader.

No skid plate protecting the transfer case, which is fairly low.

No skid plate protecting the transmission - and the bottom of the transmission is plastic. One of those two things has to change. The reviewer says as much.

No specs on the drive shafts, but the guy in the video was not impressed with their apparent strength.

The stuff in this photo needs skid-plate coverage:

View attachment 7832491

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but the under chassis of the Grenadier is not suitable (designed) for "endeavoured rock crawling" without mods, but neither is just about any 4X4 delivered from the factory floor in standard specs. Wrangler maybe, but then it's a pig to drive on the highway and over long rutted roads like we have here in Australia and it can't tow grandmas 18V lawn mower, by comparison.

trobex said:

I'm sorry but the under chassis of the Grenadier is not suitable (designed) for "endeavoured rock crawling" without mods, but neither is just about any 4X4 delivered from the factory floor in standard specs. Wrangler maybe, but then it's a pig to drive on the highway and over long rutted roads like we have here in Australia and it can't tow grandmas 18V lawn mower, by comparison.

Click to expand...

I get what you are saying. As an owner of multiple Jeeps (CJ and Wrangler) I have no illusions about their capabilities or their limitations. But I do admire how they design the vehicle in such a way that one can buy a stripped down Wrangler on 31-inch tires for $35,000, but it is engineered so that modifying it in any way is easy (lift, tires, suspension, etc.). You can modify it easily to suit your needs and/or budget. You can also buy a Wrangler with a 392 (470 horsepower and 470 lb/ft of torque), a 2-inch lift, on 35-inch tires, for $82,000 (which is about the same price as a Trialmaster with a winch).

I don't expect Ineos to offer the Grenadier in multiple configurations like Jeep does with the Wrangler - I understand that Ineos is a new car company, and is producing a small-batch vehicle. But to me, it is overpriced by about $10,000. Should the Grenadier - without lockers - be more expensive than a base Wrangler Sport? Both come with 31.6-inch tires, and traditional 4-wheel drive. Yes, of course the Grenadier should be more expensive. It has full-time 4-wheel drive with the capability of shifting into true 4-wheel drive, a more robust frame, suspension, and body, and a more powerful engine with much better low-end torque, the seats are better, and so are the headlights. What is all that worth? I'd definitely pay an extra $25,000 for those attributes - but then we're at $60,000 for a base Grenadier - not $70,000.

I'd be happy with the Grenadier equipped as-is at a lower price point, leaving the owner with the responsibility to modify it if he/she chooses.

I'd also be happy with it sold at the current price point but a bit more suited to all types of off-roading, not just touring. I'm not saying it should come from the factory as a built rock-crawler, but the one I've ordered is over $80,000 and it seems over-priced for a touring vehicle that needs a bunch of modifications to be reliable for regular use on the trails I drive.

I drove it off-road back in August, but I've got my first real test drive in a couple of days. Looking forward to driving it on-road, and off-road again.

stickshifter said:

Folks are arguing that the Grenadier is a pure off-roader, and should not be compared to an IFS SUV. I agree with that. But then it needs to be judged pretty hard - but fairly - as an off-roader because (1) that is its purpose, and it will never drive on-road like an IFS SUV, and (2) its price. This is where things get problematic for people whose off-roading involves rocky trails. The Grenadier is not designed with rocky trails in mind. Its just not. Whether you are looking at tire-size, low-range ratio, and now some of the specs of the undercarriage. But to folks who live in the Rocky Mountains, most off-road driving involves rocky trails. It doesn't mean one is seeking out hard rocky trails to drive, but most trails that take you to the higher summer trailheads are super-rocky and steep.

This video is good - seems like one of the most thorough looks at the undercarriage.

Tie rod, track bar, and drag link look stout. Not sure about the rubber boots covering the joints. What kind of joints?

Manual handbrake is fantastic.

Overall, the suspension looks great.

Two pistons driving the front brake calipers, a single piston driving the rear brake calipers. Sub-optimal at the vehicle's weight, and price point.

They say the diff covers are 2 mm thick. My aftermarket axles came with a diff cover that was 9.5 mm thick (that's 4.75 times thicker). A diff cover of 2 mm is not made for rocky trails and will need an aftermarket solution.

The steering stabilizer is below the front axle housing, and has the exact same ground clearance as the front diff. That is going to be a problem and will require an aftermarket solution.

Has Ineos provided specs on the axles? As of a few months ago, you still couldn't get basic specs. In this video, the reviewers show the guy's hand on the axle housing, but as far as I know Ineos has still not released (1) the actual diameter of the axle housing, and (2) the wall-thickness of the axle housing. Good companies tell you both; for example, from Dynatrac: "Heavy-Duty 3.125-inch Diameter, 0.500-inch Wall Draw-Over-Mandrel (DOM) Axle Tubing" They are also telling you how the steel is made (DOM), which is stronger than the alternative - Hot-Rolled Electric Welded (HREW).

The nuts and bolt-ends for the rocksliders hang down and are vulnerable to rock strike. Its pretty standard to invert the bolts and recess the bolt head - then you have a smooth surface facing the ground. Same way you need to bolt up skid plates.

The gas tank skid plate will need to be replaced if one faces the possibility of high-centering on rocks (and with 31.6 inch tires, that is likely on a lot of the trails around here). The aft portion of the gas tank is quite low - almost as low as the rear axle housing. That is unfortunate, and unusual in a purpose-built off-roader.

No skid plate protecting the transfer case, which is fairly low.

No skid plate protecting the transmission - and the bottom of the transmission is plastic. One of those two things has to change. The reviewer says as much.

No specs on the drive shafts, but the guy in the video was not impressed with their apparent strength.

The stuff in this photo needs skid-plate coverage:

View attachment 7832491

Click to expand...

Looks like the Grenadier isn't for you, with all the problems you highlight. I doubt not more than 1% of the UK delivered vehicles will go rock crawling. It is very specialist and of course you will need to protect vulnerable components.

Trialmaster said:

Looks like the Grenadier isn't for you, with all the problems you highlight. I doubt not more than 1% of the UK delivered vehicles will go rock crawling. It is very specialist and of course you will need to protect vulnerable components.

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Its certainly not the "perfect" vehicle for me, of that I am well-aware. Frustratingly, it is still closer than any thing else on the market. Its just hard wrapping my head around an $82 K vehicle that I'll have to modify, that has no history of reliability (or lack there of), and that has limited service centers. But I get it - lots of folks are taking the plunge despite the unknowns.

But just as an aside, while true rock-crawling is a highly specialized activity that requires significant modification to any vehicle, driving steep rocky trails is most of the off-roading in a fairly large area in the Western US and Canada. You can do it with no mods, or minimal mods, with a handful of vehicles.

Unique, stylish, driveline by Steyer, engine by BMW, ZF trans, Recaro seats,

Just listing the high points, and you have a Who’s Who list of upscale automobile manufacturing companies.

Now if we can just get that 630 foot pounds of torque V8 out of the G wagon.
Lol.

One of the California dealers did a walk around video, where the person doing the walk around was clearly not aiming at the rock crawling crowd. The crawler crowd needs to get over that.
It’s too expensive for them.
It’s very specifically aimed at a different segment in the USA.

Lord Ripon USA said:

Unique, stylish, driveline by Steyer, engine by BMW, ZF trans, Recaro seats,

Just listing the high points, and you have a Who’s Who list of upscale automobile manufacturing companies.

Now if we can just get that 630 foot pounds of torque V8 out of the G wagon.
Lol.

One of the California dealers did a walk around video, where the person doing the walk around was clearly not aiming at the rock crawling crowd. The crawler crowd needs to get over that.
It’s too expensive for them.
It’s very specifically aimed at a different segment in the USA.

Click to expand...

Yeah... but even as a touring vehicle. it needs a lift and larger tires; see, for example, this 45-second video (maybe from someone on this forum).

Check out what the owner posted in the comments section of his own video - screenshot below:



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhXu8j27Ucg

stickshifter said:

Yeah... but even as a touring vehicle. it needs a lift and larger tires; see, for example, this 45-second video (maybe from someone on this forum).

Check out what the owner posted in the comments section of his own video - screenshot below:

View attachment 7832575

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhXu8j27Ucg

Click to expand...

You can do whatever you want to your own vehicle.
99% of the US sold vehicles are going to be sold in urban areas, where they’re more worried about scratches on the rims from the curb than they are driving through the desert with 1000 pounds of fuel on the roof.
There’s just an element of reality about bringing an upscale vehicle to market in the United States that people are refusing to acknowledge.
The Grenadier wasn’t created to lose money.

stickshifter said:

Yeah... but even as a touring vehicle. it needs a lift and larger tires; see, for example, this 45-second video (maybe from someone on this forum).

Check out what the owner posted in the comments section of his own video - screenshot below:

View attachment 7832575

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhXu8j27Ucg

Click to expand...

Guy with the above IG is @Logsplitter - currently on his way North through Africa.

Modern Jeeps have evolved an d been designed for extreme rocky (not muddy) trails, as are found mostly on the parchedwest coast of NA. Or so it seems.
People live out of RTTs or ground tents .
Alloy canopies , swags and the like seem to be rare, though thanks to YT influencers like 4x4 24/7 are catching on.
The Grenadier has benn designed to be a jack of all trades but master of none.
If people think that basic design philosophy is misguided , well have your say.
But I very much doubt IA will pump out a bare bones , cheapie IG that can be modded by the average guy at home without need for engineering certification/road legality. And thus people will go home devastated.
It's a cut price G wagen , as the founder said early on. It does what it was designed to do.

For some reason I thought that the IG had more underbody protection? That they aren’t even options?

stickshifter said:

I get what you are saying. As an owner of multiple Jeeps (CJ and Wrangler) I have no illusions about their capabilities or their limitations. But I do admire how they design the vehicle in such a way that one can buy a stripped down Wrangler on 31-inch tires for $35,000, but it is engineered so that modifying it in any way is easy (lift, tires, suspension, etc.). You can modify it easily to suit your needs and/or budget. You can also buy a Wrangler with a 392 (470 horsepower and 470 lb/ft of torque), a 2-inch lift, on 35-inch tires, for $82,000 (which is about the same price as a Trialmaster with a winch).

I don't expect Ineos to offer the Grenadier in multiple configurations like Jeep does with the Wrangler - I understand that Ineos is a new car company, and is producing a small-batch vehicle. But to me, it is overpriced by about $10,000. Should the Grenadier - without lockers - be more expensive than a base Wrangler Sport? Both come with 31.6-inch tires, and traditional 4-wheel drive. Yes, of course the Grenadier should be more expensive. It has full-time 4-wheel drive with the capability of shifting into true 4-wheel drive, a more robust frame, suspension, and body, and a more powerful engine with much better low-end torque, the seats are better, and so are the headlights. What is all that worth? I'd definitely pay an extra $25,000 for those attributes - but then we're at $60,000 for a base Grenadier - not $70,000.

I'd be happy with the Grenadier equipped as-is at a lower price point, leaving the owner with the responsibility to modify it if he/she chooses.

I'd also be happy with it sold at the current price point but a bit more suited to all types of off-roading, not just touring. I'm not saying it should come from the factory as a built rock-crawler, but the one I've ordered is over $80,000 and it seems over-priced for a touring vehicle that needs a bunch of modifications to be reliable for regular use on the trails I drive.

I drove it off-road back in August, but I've got my first real test drive in a couple of days. Looking forward to driving it on-road, and off-road again.

Click to expand...

…it is also a lot better put together. And it’s built in europe, on one of the most modern lines in the world. Thats a lot more quality, youre so far just comparing specifications, which is not really like for like.

as you say, theres a huge cost advantage to jeep from their volume, and lack of development costs. They also dont have to ship it round the world, or pay euro wages, meet euro6 standards, and good luck keeping all the bits on the car for as long as we hope the Gren will hold together.

but I’m actually in loud agreement with you - the Jeep is really really good at the thing it is optimised for, and insanely good value. You guys maybe dont appreciate what has set your expectations as being as good as it is. Ineos could never hope to compete in that space, and clearly nor do they want to try. Doesnt help much if what you want is bang in the middle…

but, in short, yes there’s easily 10,000 more quality, above the spec match, in the Gren. At least.

I have a Jeep Rubicon and will still have it after getting my Grenadier. They are simply two different vehicles. However, the lack of skid plates under the transmission and other areas is a concern for me. Even on mild to moderate trails inadvertent lines occur that can damage the undercarriage. The transmission is a vulnerable area that quickly ends your progress if damaged.

Rubicon Maybe said:

I have a Jeep Rubicon and will still have it after getting my Grenadier. They are simply two different vehicles. However, the lack of skid plates under the transmission and other areas is a concern for me. Even on mild to moderate trails inadvertent lines occur that can damage the undercarriage. The transmission is a vulnerable area that quickly ends your progress if damaged.

Click to expand...

Yeah - and its not just big rocks that can damage it. Sticks can break and pop up as you drive over them.

stickshifter said:

Yeah - and its not just big rocks that can damage it. Sticks can break and pop up as you drive over them.

Click to expand...

I'm looking fwd to reinforcing all the wiring and plumbing under our offroad hybrid van on order. Those pesky branches and sticks will have their way given 1/2 a chance.

I can tell you right now the Gren is a far build quality than any Jeep I have ever driven or seen. This is just based on what I can see of the current batch of Oz delivered cars vs every other Jeep before it. Three mates of mine have owned Jeeps over the last 5 years and they all had them at the dealers for weeks on end with faults and failings. Engine's, gear boxes, ignition faults, engine stutter on one, air suspension another, extend vibration another with varying wear on drive line etc etc. Worn bearings on the biggest was best... car wanting to veer left in to the guardrails!! That was the Wrangler and its 2nd tow. He sold after warranty repair!

Im sure the Jeeps built for Oz come from another factory or they are all scheduled for the Friday arvo shift...

Rubicon Maybe said:

I have a Jeep Rubicon and will still have it after getting my Grenadier. They are simply two different vehicles. However, the lack of skid plates under the transmission and other areas is a concern for me. Even on mild to moderate trails inadvertent lines occur that can damage the undercarriage. The transmission is a vulnerable area that quickly ends your progress if damaged.

Click to expand...

There were cad drawings kicking around of underbody armor from IA I think so maybe a factory option is in the works.

stickshifter said:

Folks are arguing that the Grenadier is a pure off-roader, and should not be compared to an IFS SUV. I agree with that. But then it needs to be judged pretty hard - but fairly - as an off-roader because (1) that is its purpose, and it will never drive on-road like an IFS SUV, and (2) its price. This is where things get problematic for people whose off-roading involves rocky trails. The Grenadier is not designed with rocky trails in mind. Its just not. Whether you are looking at tire-size, low-range ratio, and now some of the specs of the undercarriage. But to folks who live in the Rocky Mountains, most off-road driving involves rocky trails. It doesn't mean one is seeking out hard rocky trails to drive, but most trails that take you to the higher summer trailheads are super-rocky and steep.

This video is good - seems like one of the most thorough looks at the undercarriage.

Tie rod, track bar, and drag link look stout. Not sure about the rubber boots covering the joints. What kind of joints?

Manual handbrake is fantastic.

Overall, the suspension looks great.

Two pistons driving the front brake calipers, a single piston driving the rear brake calipers. Sub-optimal at the vehicle's weight, and price point.

They say the diff covers are 2 mm thick. My aftermarket axles came with a diff cover that was 9.5 mm thick (that's 4.75 times thicker). A diff cover of 2 mm is not made for rocky trails and will need an aftermarket solution.

The steering stabilizer is below the front axle housing, and has the exact same ground clearance as the front diff. That is going to be a problem and will require an aftermarket solution.

Has Ineos provided specs on the axles? As of a few months ago, you still couldn't get basic specs. In this video, the reviewers show the guy's hand on the axle housing, but as far as I know Ineos has still not released (1) the actual diameter of the axle housing, and (2) the wall-thickness of the axle housing. Good companies tell you both; for example, from Dynatrac: "Heavy-Duty 3.125-inch Diameter, 0.500-inch Wall Draw-Over-Mandrel (DOM) Axle Tubing" They are also telling you how the steel is made (DOM), which is stronger than the alternative - Hot-Rolled Electric Welded (HREW).

The nuts and bolt-ends for the rocksliders hang down and are vulnerable to rock strike. Its pretty standard to invert the bolts and recess the bolt head - then you have a smooth surface facing the ground. Same way you need to bolt up skid plates.

The gas tank skid plate will need to be replaced if one faces the possibility of high-centering on rocks (and with 31.6 inch tires, that is likely on a lot of the trails around here). The aft portion of the gas tank is quite low - almost as low as the rear axle housing. That is unfortunate, and unusual in a purpose-built off-roader.

No skid plate protecting the transfer case, which is fairly low.

No skid plate protecting the transmission - and the bottom of the transmission is plastic. One of those two things has to change. The reviewer says as much.

No specs on the drive shafts, but the guy in the video was not impressed with their apparent strength.

The stuff in this photo needs skid-plate coverage:

View attachment 7832491

Click to expand...

People seem to go the "well maybe this vehicle isn't for you" route anytime you make real observations. I for one like it and am glad to read your thoughts. Excellent post.

trobex said:

I can tell you right now the Gren is a far build quality than any Jeep I have ever driven or seen. This is just based on what I can see of the current batch of Oz delivered cars vs every other Jeep before it. Three mates of mine have owned Jeeps over the last 5 years and they all had them at the dealers for weeks on end with faults and failings. Engine's, gear boxes, ignition faults, engine stutter on one, air suspension another, extend vibration another with varying wear on drive line etc etc. Worn bearings on the biggest was best... car wanting to veer left in to the guardrails!! That was the Wrangler and its 2nd tow. He sold after warranty repair!

Im sure the Jeeps built for Oz come from another factory or they are all scheduled for the Friday arvo shift...

Click to expand...

The thing is the Gren could still have those same issues. It's a bit new to be saying it's so superior.