Battery completely dead - no prior symptoms

Voader - Oudersopzwier · Nov 1, 2023

Here we go again,
Today. the battery was at 75%. I did drive some short trips the past days, but not much.
But decided to wash the car after the Grenadier Summit from last weekend. And as we leave tomorrow to Texel on holiday… wife want to have a clean car.
Drove the car outside and +/- 2 hours, cleaning the car in and outside. No contact on, no car radio, nothing.
Wanted to start the car, again lights come up, one clic and all went black. Car dead.
After a while I manage to get the screens on and the battery is at 0% and 9.8 volt. So from 75% to 0% battery charge in two hours.
Last week, I blamed the fans and cooling after that I shutdown the engine of eating the battery to 45%, this time nothing happened.

Documented this event with pictures and film, and I hope my dealer has a clue what is going on next week.

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/5M0_8qR0_m4?feature=share

Highwayman · Nov 1, 2023

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:
Here we go again,
Today. the battery was at 75%. I did drive some short trips the past days, but not much.
But decided to wash the car after the Grenadier Summit from last weekend. And as we leave tomorrow to Texel on holiday… wife want to have a clean car.
Drove the car outside and +/- 2 hours, cleaning the car in and outside. No contact on, no car radio, nothing.
Wanted to start the car, again lights come up, one clic and all went black. Car dead.
After a while I manage to get the screens on and the battery is at 0% and 9.8 volt. So from 75% to 0% battery charge in two hours.
Last week, I blamed the fans and cooling after that I shutdown the engine of eating the battery to 45%, this time nothing happened.

Documented this event with pictures and film, and I hope my dealer has a clue what is going on next week.

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/5M0_8qR0_m4?feature=share

I think you have a faulty battery. These are exactly the same issues I had with mine. All the warning lights in your video will be linked to the battery issue.

Get your dealer to replace the battery under warranty

froggy · Nov 14, 2023

Spent 6 weeks driving around Spain with a 40 litre Engel fridge plugged in rear 12v socket no problems battery never went below 65%. Now home and not used car for a week and today says zero and warning lights on. Started fine just drove 15kms and up to 27%. Not sure what to do as in winter I sometimes dont use it for 5 or 6 weeks.

Tazzieman · Nov 14, 2023

froggy said:
Now home and not used car for a week and today says zero and warning lights on. Started fine just drove 15kms and up to 27%. Not sure what to do as in winter I sometimes dont use it for 5 or 6 weeks.

What is the multimeter voltage across the battery terminals when the clever computer says "zero"?

Voader - Oudersopzwier · Nov 14, 2023

froggy said:
Spent 6 weeks driving around Spain with a 40 litre Engel fridge plugged in rear 12v socket no problems battery never went below 65%. Now home and not used car for a week and today says zero and warning lights on. Started fine just drove 15kms and up to 27%. Not sure what to do as in winter I sometimes dont use it for 5 or 6 weeks.

Single or Dual battery system?

froggy · Nov 14, 2023

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:
Single or Dual battery system?

Dual

Voader - Oudersopzwier · Nov 15, 2023

froggy said:
Dual

Then the dual battery system did his job by boosting the starter battery, and start your car. Even with low voltage on that battery.
Just check, when not using the car, if the main battery is not always low, for example dropping his load to 80% or lower in a few days. Because that could mean that the start battery is not in a good shape anymore and that the second battery needs to help.
I have a single battery setup, and the battery was at 50% after a few days. Even with 70% capacity, the starter would drain the battery in only a second. Dealer swapped the battery for a new one. No problems anymore at the moment.

bemax · Nov 15, 2023

froggy said:
Spent 6 weeks driving around Spain with a 40 litre Engel fridge plugged in rear 12v socket no problems battery never went below 65%. Now home and not used car for a week and today says zero and warning lights on. Started fine just drove 15kms and up to 27%. Not sure what to do as in winter I sometimes dont use it for 5 or 6 weeks.

My battery was down to six % after 8 days not driving as well.
All lights been on but the car start well.
Now just the emergency call shows a warning and the battery is full again.
You should call your dealer if there’s an open campaign regarding the battery at your car.
For my car after the software update there have been two more open campaigns not solved until now. Battery and transfer.

froggy · Nov 15, 2023

I wonder if I could get a battery isolator as I live in a ski resort and don’t intent to use it much in the winter. My 4x4 Panda has one as standard.

Highwayman · Nov 15, 2023

froggy said:
I wonder if I could get a battery isolator as I live in a ski resort and don’t intent to use it much in the winter. My 4x4 Panda has one as standard.

I think there are two separate issues. First is to get your battery checked/swapped for a new one. It sounds as though you are having the same issue a number of us have had. Second is to keep whatever battery charged through the winter. May be a CTEK charger/conditioner (or similar) is the way to go there. That way you can maintain your battery and the car’s systems will also be maintained. Not sure how much the car systems will enjoy being without power for weeks/months.

trobex · Nov 15, 2023

Sounds like something is wrong in the design of the dual battery system in the early stock models, having batteries running that hard down on NOTHING, parked idle... I would be mad. Contra example... I was able to park my old Triton on the front driveway for 16 weeks straight and not start it once in between. Decided to go get some milk and it started 1st click of ignition (Century Battery)! This Dual battery system needs to have an eye kept on it. If my wife gets caught in such a situation - I will be shot!

froggy · Nov 15, 2023

trobex said:
Sounds like something is wrong in the design of the dual battery system in the early stock models, having batteries running that hard down on NOTHING, parked idle... I would be mad. Contra example... I was able to park my old Triton on the front driveway for 16 weeks straight and not start it once in between. Decided to go get some milk and it started 1st click of ignition (Century Battery)! This Dual battery system needs to have an eye kept on it. If my wife gets caught in such a situation - I will be shot!

I agree, my friend left her panda outside for 6 months and when I went to try and get it moved it started fine.

Eric · Nov 15, 2023

Highwayman said:
I think there are two separate issues. First is to get your battery checked/swapped for a new one. It sounds as though you are having the same issue a number of us have had. Second is to keep whatever battery charged through the winter. May be a CTEK charger/conditioner (or similar) is the way to go there. That way you can maintain your battery and the car’s systems will also be maintained. Not sure how much the car systems will enjoy being without power for weeks/months.

Agree a CTEK charger/conditioner (or similar) is the way to go and on a modern vehicle I wouldn't isolate the battery, I don't thing the systems will like that.

froggy · Nov 15, 2023

trobex said:
Sounds like something is wrong in the design of the dual battery system in the early stock models, having batteries running that hard down on NOTHING, parked idle... I would be mad. Contra example... I was able to park my old Triton on the front driveway for 16 weeks straight and not start it once in between. Decided to go get some milk and it started 1st click of ignition (Century Battery)! This Dual battery system needs to have an eye kept on it. If my wife gets caught in such a situation - I will be shot!

Will speak to dealer. Charging not an option as I park it in underground parking away from my house.

Eric · Nov 15, 2023

froggy said:
I agree, my friend left her panda outside for 6 months and when I went to try and get it moved it started fine.

froggy said:
Will speak to dealer. Charging not an option as I park it in underground parking away from my house.

Any chance of a remote solar charger?

IG_in_AZ · Nov 15, 2023

Eric said:
Any chance of a remote solar charger?

Perhaps a hamster on a wheel with a small generator attached.

trobex · Nov 16, 2023

Do what some rural EV drivers do... find a local diesel generated charging station

emax · Nov 16, 2023

Voader - Oudersopzwier said:
Well, Cn

Hi Bemax, Well. In between 90 and 100% full loaded. There is only 1 amp going to the battery during driving. But that can be normal as the battery is protected for overcharging. But between 80 and 90% it is stil 1 amp, occasional 2 amp loading to the battery.
I keep an eye on it to see what happens once it gets in the seventeens % range. Then the amps should go up.

The numbers alone are not worth much.

With these so called "smart" generators, charging is mostly stopped during normal driving. Only if you roll down a hill, approach a red light, or in general, if you are not on the accelerator, the battery is charged. This is a EURO-6 requirement.

You can check this

if your battery status is somewhat low AND
you go off the accelerator

Then, the charging current raises significantly. If you then accelerate again, charging goes down.

The idea is to "save energy", which I consider a stupid concept, as generators have been energy efficient already since decades by regulating the excitation current according to the on-board voltage. The savings on the "smart" generators are so small that the additional effort for all the electronics and software is nothing but a waste. And, as it has turned out, it doesn't finally work. There are a ton of videos on youtube where, in particular campers, have problems with this concept.

Traditional generators stop charging at and not before the cut-off voltage of the battery, so this "smart" bullshit does not do much more but to attempt, to make use of the kinetic energy of the car to charge the battery. This means that the concept accepts a lower voltage than possible without recharging it. It is truly so, that the generator is then switched off completely and you drive on battery only - until the generator "thinks" it is time to recharge.

Old style generators ALWAYS charge the battery when it is below optimal voltage.

ECrider · Nov 16, 2023

emax said:
The numbers alone are not worth much.

With these so called "smart" generators, charging is mostly stopped during normal driving. Only if you roll down a hill, approach a red light, or in general, if you are not on the accelerator, the battery is charged. This is a EURO-6 requirement.

You can check this

if your battery status is somewhat low AND

you go off the accelerator

Then, the charging current raises significantly. If you then accelerate again, charging goes down.

The idea is to "save energy", which I consider a stupid concept, as generators have been energy efficient already since decades by regulating the excitation current according to the on-board voltage. The savings on the "smart" generators are so small that the additional effort for all the electronics and software is nothing but a waste. And, as it has turned out, it doesn't finally work. There are a ton of videos on youtube where, in particular campers, have problems with this concept.

Traditional generators stop charging at and not before the cut-off voltage of the battery, so this "smart" bullshit does not do much more but to attempt, to make use of the kinetic energy of the car to charge the battery. This means that the concept accepts a lower voltage than possible without recharging it. It is truly so, that the generator is then switched off completely and you drive on battery only - until the generator "thinks" it is time to recharge.

Old style generators ALWAYS charge the battery when it is below optimal voltage.

I wondered what the reason was that the charging dropped off when stepped on the revs. What nonsense indeed emax. Never had a 'smart' alternator before, doesn't look like I've got one now!!!

trobex · Nov 16, 2023

ECrider said:
I wondered what the reason was that the charging dropped off when stepped on the revs. What nonsense indeed emax. Never had a 'smart' alternator before, doesn't look like I've got one now!!!

It is actually a little baffling to be honest. Without reading every post on the darned battery setup - my brain hurts.

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Battery completely dead - no prior symptoms

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