Custom Dual Battery setup

Mohs 9 · Aug 7, 2023

I ordered my Grenny w/o the dual battery system, because by the time ordering the specification were unclear. Now, as we know how Ineos designed it, I must say this was the right decision for me. I would feel much more comfortable with a classical setup, i.e.:

dedicated sockets which are connected to the service battery.
Lithium service battery
DC/DC charger
MPPT solar charger

An all in one for DC/DC and solar charger is the CTEK 250SE, which is available here in Europe at a reasonable price. The Victron Energy lineup is also promising:
DC-DC https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated
Solar charger https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-mppt-75-10-75-15-100-15-100-20
As far as I see there are no Red Arc products available here in Germany.

As I think it over, 2 questions arise:
The solar input socket (for portable panels) should be accessible from the outside. Any suggestion for placement?
Is it possible to connect the sockets on the roof (my car has the High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel) to the service battery and disconnect them from the starter battery circuit?

Looking forward for solutions coming up from down under as there is more expertise there.

AWo · Aug 7, 2023

You're from Germany. Contact Tigerexped.de, they can help you and they have the right stuff.

Another very, very good tip is CarElectric in Hamburg. They have all the stuff and they produce the right cabling in industrial quality to connect all these things.

AWo

TheDocAUS · Aug 7, 2023

Mohs 9 said:
I ordered my Grenny w/o the dual battery system, because by the time ordering the specification were unclear. Now, as we know how Ineos designed it, I must say this was the right decision for me. I would feel much more comfortable with a classical setup, i.e.:

dedicated sockets which are connected to the service battery.

Lithium service battery

DC/DC charger

MPPT solar charger

An all in one for DC/DC and solar charger is the CTEK 250SE, which is available here in Europe at a reasonable price. The Victron Energy lineup is also promising:
DC-DC https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated
Solar charger https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-mppt-75-10-75-15-100-15-100-20
As far as I see there are no Red Arc products available here in Germany.

As I think it over, 2 questions arise:
The solar input socket (for portable panels) should be accessible from the outside. Any suggestion for placement?
Is it possible to connect the sockets on the roof (my car has the High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel) to the service battery and disconnect them from the starter battery circuit?

Looking forward for solutions coming up from down under as there is more expertise there.

Enerdrive is another big name in DC to DC chargers in Australia. I seem to remember their DC to DC chargers are rebadged from a Dutch manufacturer, whose name I cannot find at the moment (will post if I find it). So you may have more choices than Victron and CTEK.

In the Canada and the US some of the "Enerdrive" chargers are branded Xantrex.

AnD3rew · Aug 7, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
Enerdrive is another big name in DC to DC chargers in Australia. I seem to remember their DC to DC chargers are rebadged from a Dutch manufacturer, whose name I cannot find at the moment (will post if I find it). So you may have more choices than Victron and CTEK.

Look at Projecta as well.

As for putting cables up to the roof. Look at the posts on UHF installations. Someone ran an aerial cable up the B pillar and out the grommet for the roof connections. I think that at least the 10amp circuits may not be robust enough I would run new cables.

DCPU · Aug 7, 2023

Mohs 9 said:
I would feel much more comfortable with a classical setup, i.e.:

dedicated sockets which are connected to the service battery.

Lithium service battery

DC/DC charger

MPPT solar charger

Other than the lithium battery, the other 3 items on your list are all achievable with the Ineos setup.

Mohs 9 said:
2 questions arise:
The solar input socket (for portable panels) should be accessible from the outside. Any suggestion for placement?

Up with the roof Deutsch connectors seems to be the obvious place, there's a few photos using either the existing grommet or even drilling for a new one.

Mohs 9 said:
Is it possible to connect the sockets on the roof (my car has the High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel) to the service battery and disconnect them from the starter battery circuit?

Look at the auxiliary fuse box. I can't see a common power input, but if it comes off the 80A supply in the Littel fuse box then it should be easy to swap it over (and maybe that was part of the Ineos plan with the 80A consumer output on the Smartpass?).

Mohs 9 · Aug 7, 2023

DCPU said:
Look at the auxiliary fuse box. I can't see a common power input, but if it comes off the 80A supply in the Littel fuse box then it should be easy to swap it over (and maybe that was part of the Ineos plan with the 80A consumer output on the Smartpass?).

That seems quite a useful approach.

To clarify: I do not want to install new cables/sockets on the roof - I want to use the existing setup as I paid for. But the power should come from the service battery and not from the starter battery.

Regarding the solar input socket: Just found a DIN 9680 socket/plug in my workshop. This should do the job, maybe I mount it next to the trailer hitch.

TXJOHN · Aug 7, 2023

As someone who knows little about electrical circuits I find the discussions of the second battery very complicated and confusing. Which leads me to ask why a straightforward solution to having separate power for off-road is not to add a "portable power station", I think really a marketing name for a lithium battery, an inverter, inputs/outputs and rechargeable by solar panels such as those marketed by Bluetti and Ecoflow, in the boot? These devices seem to provide significant power, a long life and much flexibility. I assume there are more cons than pros or we would not be having these discussions on how the second battery works. Thanks in advance for the input.

Mohs 9 · Aug 7, 2023

TXJOHN said:
These devices seem to provide significant power, a long life and much flexibility. I assume there are more cons than pros or we would not be having these discussions on how the second battery works. Thanks in advance for the input.

Cannot think of much pros, except the "portable".
Cons:
- expensive - its always about money.
- take up space in the boot
- recharge is slow if you do not have AC. I just checked the data sheet of EcoFlow Delta 2, its 8 A when plugged in the 12V socket. Compared with a DC/DC Charger which delivers 20 A to 30 A. So recharge of this power station will take about 3-4 times longer.

For my use case this would not be the right solution. Let me describe my intended use:
Load side:
- Fridge
- charging electronic devices (phone, drone etc.), USB and 12V only, no inverter required.
Recharge side:
- via alternator while driving
- solar if I make camp for longer than overnight. However, this happens only if the sun is shining, otherwise I carry on, I hardly make camp in bad weather for several days.
But this is my use case. Others may be different, e.g. if you want to recharge ebikes offgrid or induction cooking.

ADVAW8S · Aug 7, 2023

Here is how you address the slow car charging on ecoflow.

View: https://youtu.be/s_-9vj-hF1M

anand · Aug 7, 2023

After using a lot of it, I've become a huge fan of Victron's equipment, and you really can't go wrong with their DC-DC chargers (we run 3 of the Orion 12/12-30 chargers in our Sprinter in parallel).

The roof outlets, from what has been posted here, go to the relays under the rear seat, so technically, you could use the socket on the roof, and then grab the wires under the seat to connect to whatever else you'd like to connect it to. With solar wiring, however, I'd caution you to ensure the OEM wires can handle the appropriate voltages that the solar panels are outputting.

AnD3rew · Aug 8, 2023

TXJOHN said:
As someone who knows little about electrical circuits I find the discussions of the second battery very complicated and confusing. Which leads me to ask why a straightforward solution to having separate power for off-road is not to add a "portable power station", I think really a marketing name for a lithium battery, an inverter, inputs/outputs and rechargeable by solar panels such as those marketed by Bluetti and Ecoflow, in the boot? These devices seem to provide significant power, a long life and much flexibility. I assume there are more cons than pros or we would not be having these discussions on how the second battery works. Thanks in advance for the input.

Those are good solutions, I have a portable system and have been using it in my current vehicle because it was always an interim vehicle and I didn’t want to hard install stuff.

But if you want to charge it from your vehicle it isn’t always that simple. Mine claims to be compatible with a smart alternator and can supposedly just be plugged into the cigarette outlet. However I found in practice that it really didn’t properly charge and I ended up putting a DC/DC charger in the back to be able to get it charging properly on the road so it can power the fridge at night.

The other downside is that you have a 10kg missile in the back of the vehicle if you have an accident.

A good permanent installation means it is always charging while you are driving, it should automatically kick in to boost the starting battery if needed. It’s out of the way and safer and not taking up room in your loadspace.

ninetubes · Aug 21, 2023

I got the battery shrouds off on the weekend. Really need a stubby T50 torx key amongst your regular tools. It can be flexed and manipulated to remove it with the rest of the seat structure left in place. photos below.

I'm planning:
150Ah Amptron lithium aux battery
redarc BCDC1250
i recon i can squeeze an ARB twin compressor in too.

Note terminal box next to the aux batter could easily be moved to the empty space under the front of the centre seat to make more space next to the aux batt.

Gaston the Grenadier · Aug 29, 2023

Anyone in the UK offering retrofit auxiliary battery set up?
I carry a Bluetti power station (and 350w solar panel) for 240v mains use (annealing machine, as well as power tool chargers), but only carry it when needed.
I’d like the option of the auxiliary battery for weekend use when mains kit is left at home and the Grenadier is used for recreational activities.
I’m Bath based, so anyone within a couple of hours would be handy.

DCPU · Aug 29, 2023

Gaston the Grenadier said:
I’m Bath based, so anyone within a couple of hours would be handy.

2 hours just puts you in range of Devon 4x4.

They have a strong reputation in 4WD circles and have actually worked on a Grenadier:

Post in thread 'Grenadiers Towing' https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/grenadiers-towing.12411928/post-1333195585

froggy · Aug 31, 2023

Mohs 9 said:
I ordered my Grenny w/o the dual battery system, because by the time ordering the specification were unclear. Now, as we know how Ineos designed it, I must say this was the right decision for me. I would feel much more comfortable with a classical setup, i.e.:

dedicated sockets which are connected to the service battery.

Lithium service battery

DC/DC charger

MPPT solar charger

An all in one for DC/DC and solar charger is the CTEK 250SE, which is available here in Europe at a reasonable price. The Victron Energy lineup is also promising:
DC-DC https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated
Solar charger https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-mppt-75-10-75-15-100-15-100-20
As far as I see there are no Red Arc products available here in Germany.

As I think it over, 2 questions arise:
The solar input socket (for portable panels) should be accessible from the outside. Any suggestion for placement?
Is it possible to connect the sockets on the roof (my car has the High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel) to the service battery and disconnect them from the starter battery circuit?

Looking forward for solutions coming up from down under as there is more expertise there.

I tried out my factory twin battery setup for a few days last week at the Valloire 4x4 show with a 40 litre Engel fridge phones etc
crazy hot weather car left parked in sun and the battery only dropped 25% so I think I will see how it goes as we rarely camp more than 2 nights. Going to Spain for 6 weeks next week so time will tell.

NQ94 · Sep 26, 2023

Dual battery set up. I am lookin at setting up a dual battery set up similar to what I have set up in my LC79. I am looking at using a Blue Sea Marine ML-ACR or ML-RBS. I have used the ML-ACR for years in my LC the system has advantages like being able to charge the primary from the solar feed into the second battery and linking both batteries to to run the winch or start the car. The ML-ARC senses voltage from both batteries and can charge from either battery. I have the canopy set up to run a a DCDC charger to run extra house batteries for fridges or I can swap over to run only the two batteries from the car with out the canopy and house batteries. This set up leaves a dual battery for the winch, starting and an inverter when the canopy is removed. I would like to use a similar system in a Quartermaster as I am not a fan of the factory CTEK system. My only concern is will the Grenadier charging system cope with this set up and will it be an issue with the electronics when it switches?

Nocrays · Sep 26, 2023

NQ94 said:
Dual battery set up. I am lookin at setting up a dual battery set up similar to what I have set up in my LC79. I am looking at using a Blue Sea Marine ML-ACR or ML-RBS. I have used the ML-ACR for years in my LC the system has advantages like being able to charge the primary from the solar feed into the second battery and linking both batteries to to run the winch or start the car. The ML-ARC senses voltage from both batteries and can charge from either battery. I have the canopy set up to run a a DCDC charger to run extra house batteries for fridges or I can swap over to run only the two batteries from the car with out the canopy and house batteries. This set up leaves a dual battery for the winch, starting and an inverter when the canopy is removed. I would like to use a similar system in a Quartermaster as I am not a fan of the factory CTEK system. My only concern is will the Grenadier charging system cope with this set up and will it be an issue with the electronics when it switches?

View attachment 7827891

Interesting I must look into these. Sounds very similar of how I have currently set up a manual system in the Defender.

anand · Sep 26, 2023

NQ94 said:
I would like to use a similar system in a Quartermaster as I am not a fan of the factory CTEK system. My only concern is will the Grenadier charging system cope with this set up and will it be an issue with the electronics when it switches?

View attachment 7827891

I think a ML-ACR is in my future as well, I used that setup for a dual battery in my Tundra, and use the ML-RBS (simple battery switch version) in our Sprinter... As far as the charging system, it is definitely robust enough to handle virtually any aux. battery you decide to go with (perhaps short of a 500aH LiFePO4 battery bank you are attempting to direct alternator charge, but at that point, you've made other mistakes along the way)

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Custom Dual Battery setup

Mohs 9

AWo

TheDocAUS

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

DCPU

Mohs 9

TXJOHN

Mohs 9

ADVAW8S

Global Grenadier 0044

anand

Photo Contest Winner

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

ninetubes

Gaston the Grenadier

DCPU

froggy

NQ94

Nocrays

anand

Photo Contest Winner

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