NATO Plug,Socket

AnD3rew · Aug 30, 2023

etbandit said:
Thanks for sharing! Thinking of doing the same if CTALS doesn't release their NATO to Anderson adaptor before I take delivery of my vehicle.

Can you confirm if your home made NATO to Anderson adaptor works when supplying power to your trailer/ caravan? That is, is there power at the NATO socket and does use of your adaptor cause any issues onboard the Grenadiers computer system?

Haven’t had a chance to try it out yet. But without modifications it will need to be in P,D or R and the 500A winch switch will need to be powered on. I may bypass this but TBH I think more likely I will jump a new cable off the hot side of the Solenoid and run out one of the grommets in there to underneath the car and mount separately. That’s the easiest solution and less likely to run the risk of Canbus errors etc.

bakepl · Aug 30, 2023

Clark Kent said:
The relay coil terminals are standard spades. The green wire, shown unplugged below, is the +12V signal to pull in the relay, provided:

the 500A overhead switch is set;

the transmission is in neutral (etc);

a front winch is fitted;

there is a waning moon over a rising tide; and

you're parked on your own driveway.

Those simple rules aside, the relay will happily activate anytime +12V is applied to that spade terminal and that can be achieved without Ineos' permission (shhh).
For now I have gone for ignition-activation via the spare 40A (fused) circuit under the seat. When (if) Ineos address the dead-NATO-socket-without-a-winch-fitted issue, I just need to plug the green wire back in.

A manual switch between the hot side of the relay (the 2AWG cable on the left) and the spade terminal would also work but the downside of a switch is remembering to use it. A VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) inline with the switch would let me turn on the NATO socket when I want to use it and it will turn off automatically to protect the battery after the vehicle was turned off. If I want to use the NATO socket and the battery voltage is less than the VSR cutoff then I must have the engine running. Not a bad result.
Choices!

View attachment 7825191

100%, about to do same using spare compressor wires to activate solenoid.. 12v when engine running to power van...

DCPU · Aug 30, 2023

Clark Kent said:
The relay coil terminals are standard spades. The green wire, shown unplugged below, is the +12V signal to pull in the relay, provided

Ah, right, I'd assumed with you using 40A feed under the rear seats, you were using the 30A relay under the seats adjacent that triggers the feed to the Albright solenoid.

Clark Kent · Aug 30, 2023

Aah, Relay 614, a.k.a the winch pre-relay. I had to read back to refresh on that one.
No, I'm dealing with this at the pointy end so I can easily reverse it if Ineos come good with a fix.

bakepl · Aug 30, 2023

Must say this vehicle is a treat to work on. The rear Nato now has power whilst driving to charge the vans batteries via a dc to dc charger in the van. As discussed by Clark I used the 12v (compressor) trigger wire under the rear seat and wired this to the +ve of the rear albright solenoid having removed the green +ve winch trigger wire. Easy as. I'm waiting to receive the littlefuse 60amp Zcase fuse and will swap that out with the 350amp. Doesn't effect the front winch operation.

Tomdoc · Aug 30, 2023

Have we now established that if there is no winch then the NATO plug is never going to work without requiring a new wiring setup?

Clark Kent · Aug 30, 2023

Clark Kent said:
I'll jump in here..
I have been working on this over the past couple of days with CT-ALS.
There are two problems to solve here: electrical and mechanical.

Electrical.
It doesn't matter how much power users propose to use for their trailer, van or camper. The NATO socket circuit is capable of delivering up to 350A as per the installed ZCase fuse. CT-ALS cannot predict what users will try to do with an adapter that could deliver up to 350A via a 50A Anderson plug. That's brown smoke territory. The adapter would need to be fused at a maximum of 50A. That's not easy to do inline while keeping the adapter in a neat and short package to hang off the back of your Grenadier.

Mechanical.
The smallest NATO plug contacts are made for 35mm2 2AWG cable. The largest cable and contacts useable with a 50A Anderson is 6AWG. The wire pocket in the back of a 35mm2 contact is 9.1mm diameter. 6AWG wire is 4.7mm diameter (plus 1mm for the insulation). That's a ~4.4mm gap to crimp or fill with solder. It's not a good fit and CT-ALS cannot support it to sell it. The back of the NATO plug has a grommet that is supposed to seal around the 2AWG wire insulation. 6AWG is too small to seal so another solution is required, like potting or a sealant.

So CT-ALS cannot sell an assembled adapter because they can't control the end use.

I see AnD3rew stepped down the wire sizes on his adapter from 2AWG to 6AWG mid-run. That's fine for his own use. After some mental to-and- fro'ing, I am proceeding with an adapter. I will make some copper sleeves to take up the gap inside some 50mm2 NATO contacts (10.7mm ID) and solder as an assembly then use 6AWG to a 50A Anderson. I will pot seal the back of the plug to close it.

First thing though; I will replace the 350A ZCase M8 stud fuse with a 60A fuse to protect the circuit and my equipment from having a very bad day. I am using the socket for a 20A DC-DC charger (D250S) in my camper, and may use it for my portable compressor which can draw up to 45A on restart. There isn't a 50A ZCase fuse.

PS: Yes, this is likely the hardest and most expensive way to get power to my camper but I was determined to use the NATO socket that was supplied!
PPS: I don't have the winch option so my NATO socket was DOA. I have run a new wire from the ignition-switched feed of the 45A under-seat outlet to the coil of the NATO relay to close the relay and put power to the NATO socket when the ignition is on. Solved.

Received the 50mm2 NATO plug from CT-ALS today (overnight, awesome service).

A couple of early pics to illustrate the size difference between the 2AWG terminals and housing that the plug is designed for, and 6AWG cable required for a 50A Anderson.

Clark Kent · Aug 30, 2023

Tomdoc said:
Have we now established that if there is no winch then the NATO plug is never going to work without requiring a new wiring setup?

(edited because I gave a rubbish answer the first time..)
My agent tested two vehicles side by side. One with winch and one without (my own vehicle). 'With winch' had a powered NATO socket when the winch was on. My sans-winch vehicle had a dead NATO socket in an identical configuration.

As DCPU has noted, you don't need to do anything if you're happy to wait for Ineos to fix this.. I need to use the socket now so I'm not waiting.

DCPU · Aug 30, 2023

Tomdoc said:
Have we now established that if there is no winch then the NATO plug is never going to work without requiring a new wiring setup?

No ~ new wiring should not be required. I believe it's currently because the overhead 500A switch is wired back into the BCM before going to energise the 30A relay that the triggers the Albright solenoid in the rear quarter panel.

Ineos are on record stating that this will be fixed with a software update, I assume amending/fixing the logic in the BCM.

If you can't or don't want to wait, or feel it should just be simple switch logic then there's a few work arounds to make it so.

etbandit · Sep 5, 2023

Clark Kent said:
Received the 50mm2 NATO plug from CT-ALS today (overnight, awesome service).

A couple of early pics to illustrate the size difference between the 2AWG terminals and housing that the plug is designed for, and 6AWG cable required for a 50A Anderson.View attachment 7825256 View attachment 7825257

Thanks for posting! Please show us more photos on how you go about with this project. I'm sure many on here would find it useful.

etbandit · Sep 5, 2023

Tomdoc said:
Have we now established that if there is no winch then the NATO plug is never going to work without requiring a new wiring setup?

When I took delivery of my vehicle, the dealer called Ineos Australia and I spoke directly with one of the techs who said that cars with the front winch currently have power to the NATO, and that they're sorting out a fix for the NATO on vehicles without a winch.

ddv · Sep 5, 2023

etbandit said:
When I took delivery of my vehicle, the dealer called Ineos Australia and I spoke directly with one of the techs who said that cars with the front winch currently have power to the NATO, and that they're sorting out a fix for the NATO on vehicles without a winch.

But the issue for those with winches and who are also towing is how to connect the NATO plug to power the trailer. For me the problem is that my trailer has a 50amp Anderson plug and cable for this is so small that it makes the connection to the NATO plug problematic. I’m still unclear about how effectively this can be done

etbandit · Sep 5, 2023

ddv said:
But the issue for those with winches and who are also towing is how to connect the NATO plug to power the trailer. For me the problem is that my trailer has a 50amp Anderson plug and cable for this is so small that it makes the connection to the NATO plug problematic. I’m still unclear about how effectively this can be done

Yes, I'll be towing a caravan so will have the same issue even if they eventually have power to the NATO.

I'm thinking of wiring a new 50A Anderson directly to the starter battery? Has anyone on the forum done this?

TheDocAUS · Sep 5, 2023

etbandit said:
I'm thinking of wiring a new 50A Anderson directly to the starter battery? Has anyone on the forum done this?

It has been done in Australia by an Auto electrician in Vic, who posted pictures. Pictures were posted to an Australian INEOS FB page. I will try and find the link. I believe he owns and/or works here: https://adventureadditions.com.au/

EDIT: You might have to join the FB group to see the images: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3774825335877563/user/1281099143

The simpler setup here:

Joey · Sep 5, 2023

Clark Kent said:
The relay coil terminals are standard spades. The green wire, shown unplugged below, is the +12V signal to pull in the relay, provided:

the 500A overhead switch is set;

the transmission is in neutral (etc);

a front winch is fitted;

there is a waning moon over a rising tide; and

you're parked on your own driveway.

Those simple rules aside, the relay will happily activate anytime +12V is applied to that spade terminal and that can be achieved without Ineos' permission (shhh).
For now I have gone for ignition-activation via the spare 40A (fused) circuit under the seat. When (if) Ineos address the dead-NATO-socket-without-a-winch-fitted issue, I just need to plug the green wire back in.

A manual switch between the hot side of the relay (the 2AWG cable on the left) and the spade terminal would also work but the downside of a switch is remembering to use it. A VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) inline with the switch would let me turn on the NATO socket when I want to use it and it will turn off automatically to protect the battery after the vehicle was turned off. If I want to use the NATO socket and the battery voltage is less than the VSR cutoff then I must have the engine running. Not a bad result.
Choices!

View attachment 7825191

Awesome. This is exactly what I wanted to do was to use the Nato as intended. Will you use a Nato to Anderson lead for those situations where you need Anderson in i.e. caravan etc?

Clark Kent · Sep 5, 2023

joseph.graham said:
Awesome. This is exactly what I wanted to do was to use the Nato as intended. Will you use a Nato to Anderson lead for those situations where you need Anderson in i.e. caravan etc?

G'day JG. Yes, that's where I am heading. Power for my camper DC-DC charger on the road and my portable compressor (45A). Converting my camper to a NATO plug (and a 13 Euro trailer plug) would be simpler but then me and maybe 3 other people in Australia could tow it.
Scroll up to #167 and you'll see the start of my efforts to graft a 50A Anderson onto a NATO plug. I'll add some pics when it's done.

Tazzieman · Sep 5, 2023

Looking fwd to this all being sorted and documented here!
Because we signed a contract to purchase an offroad hybrid caravan today.
As my wife said "it's only money".
And a reason to haul ourselves into work for a few more years!

DCPU · Sep 5, 2023

etbandit said:
I'm thinking of wiring a new 50A Anderson directly to the starter battery? Has anyone on the forum done this?

That's a much better way of doing it than messing about with the NATO socket.

Not sure where the Victorian sparkie picked up the power but there's a spare slot in the 5 way fuse box and you just need to follow the 350A cable routing to the rear...

Clark Kent · Sep 6, 2023

Right, that's done. One NATO to 50A Anderson adapter.

Turns out I'm a bit of an engineering masochist. This was the hard way to hang an Anderson plug on the back of my vehicle. I knew that before I went down this path and acknowledged it earlier in this thread. If you're similarly determined to make use of the NATO socket you paid for then go ahead.

I think there is a fairly small interest group for this. Pics tell most of the story, plus:

Elke NATO plug with 50mm2 contacts for 2AWG cable
I made two spacers from a piece of copper rod. 10.5mm OD. 7mm ID. 14mm long.
I filled the cavity in the backing grommet with 13mm plastic barbed end plugs from my garden shed (example), after first drilling a 7mm hole in the end and taking off the peg tab. The barbs completely seal the grommet. This worked better than I expected. I added some heat shrink to tighten up the fit and protect the insulation.
The spacers were tinned then soldered into the NATO male contacts to step down from 2AWG to 6AWG.
The 6AWG cable was dip-soldered into the contacts at each end. I prefer to crimp but the NATO contacts are LARGE!
The finished length will place the Anderson horizontal in the run to my camper. I have also put a new Anderson on my camper so it's fresh.

etbandit · Sep 6, 2023

Clark Kent said:
Right, that's done. One NATO to 50A Anderson adapter.

That's a great result! Thanks for sharing.

Did you end up replacing the 350A fuse with a 60A one?

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