Gutters surviving 420kg?

Loc Nar · Jun 14, 2023

With these completely flat Black Sheep and LeTech racks with the L track or T slots (whatever they are called), what is the best way to mount a roof top tent to one of those? Black Sheep showed a RTT mounted to their rack and it looks like they had to run additional vertical bars to the rack to attach the tent: at the 12:52 mark in this video. Is that the only solution? The LeTech rack looks very sharp. I'm curious to see what it weighs/costs. Also, how would one mount side brackets to the LeTech rack for mounting, for example, a 270 degree awning? I see the L track on the side of the Black Sheep rack would provide easy mounting points for such brackets.

das mo · Jun 14, 2023

I saw both last week and mounting my iKamper RTT is not possible without further adjustment. Both LeTech and BSI were happy to work with me on tailored setup as I do not need the panels on top obviously.
But my first trip is approaching soon and therefore I will not force this atm.
LeTech is using the gutter and moved the feet and therefore the pressure towards the car as I have done with my wooden adapter for the DOT200.
Whilst they have all mounts connected via the pipe running all around the car, the solution does not allow for single mounts adapting to the gutters wave form. The mounts grab the gutter and pull it where the rack needs them. Same as the Rhino one. So the gutters were bend badly.
The BSI solution being great for some only supports the rack where the tie down rails are. Meaning a 220cm RTT overlaps quite a bit in front and back. Also being so low is great but not great for most RTT mounts and other applications where some space under the rack provides opportunities.
This is why I am still trying to combine both and mount on rails and gutters for the blend.
Time will tell. Some innovative ideas will keep hitting the market, but surely the gutters are not the cherry on the Gren engineering.

Tom109 · Jun 14, 2023

das mo said:
Thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure what "tabs and bolts" translates to though.

Tab and bolt illustrated below. The tab is attached to the upper leg. The bolt could be welded to the lower clamp, or an eye could be welded and a normal hex or socket head bolt could be used.

Not exactly what I mean, but the bolt's clamping effect is correct.

Tom109 · Jun 14, 2023

DaveB said:
Those gutters flexing is really starting to make the Black Sheep product look more and more like my choice.

View attachment 7816353 View attachment 7816354 View attachment 7816355

I like this design, but have to ask - are six bolts stronger than that section of gutter?

Loc Nar · Jun 14, 2023

das mo said:
The BSI solution being great for some only supports the rack where the tie down rails are. Meaning a 220cm RTT overlaps quite a bit in front and back. Also being so low is great but not great for most RTT mounts and other applications where some space under the rack provides opportunities.

View attachment 7816379

Thanks for the detailed and informative post! Great points. Regarding your low mount comment above - there certainly would be no room for the innovative camp table under rack mounting solutions from Front Runner or Alu-Cab. So dang much to consider. Also, I think I would have chosen shorter bolts than those shown in the fifth pic in your post above. Those look to be primed to start driving holes through the roof on corrugations.

Not too mention that if you mount the RTT too close to the roof and it extends too far and you have Safari Windows, you might not be able to open them. Just one more thing to have to calculate for,

DaveB · Jun 14, 2023

das mo said:
I saw both last week and mounting my iKamper RTT is not possible without further adjustment. Both LeTech and BSI were happy to work with me on tailored setup as I do not need the panels on top obviously.
But my first trip is approaching soon and therefore I will not force this atm.
LeTech is using the gutter and moved the feet and therefore the pressure towards the car as I have done with my wooden adapter for the DOT200.
Whilst they have all mounts connected via the pipe running all around the car, the solution does not allow for single mounts adapting to the gutters wave form. The mounts grab the gutter and pull it where the rack needs them. Same as the Rhino one. So the gutters were bend badly.
The BSI solution being great for some only supports the rack where the tie down rails are. Meaning a 220cm RTT overlaps quite a bit in front and back. Also being so low is great but not great for most RTT mounts and other applications where some space under the rack provides opportunities.
This is why I am still trying to combine both and mount on rails and gutters for the blend.
Time will tell. Some innovative ideas will keep hitting the market, but surely the gutters are not the cherry on the Gren engineering.

View attachment 7816375

View attachment 7816376

View attachment 7816377

View attachment 7816378

View attachment 7816379

View attachment 7816380

Isn't the Black Sheep one sitting on the roof strips and so also supported by them?
I am very wary of gutter mount racks
A few years ago I had Yakima roof bars on my Mazda BT50 which were gutter mounted
I had three SUP boards mounted on top and doing 100KMH when a large truck went past the other way.
The racks just tore off the roof bending the gutters.
The board landed like a spear in the field next to the road.
Still attached to the racks
Yakima said I should have had the front and rear of the boards strapped to my bumper bars.
I like the way the Black Sheep supports wrap completely around the bar and support the upward load as well as sharing the downward load with the roof
They also still allow good access to the rails as a hand hold when tying stuff on the roof.
I will probably go with the three Black Sheep platforms
I like these big brackets for hanging an awning off as well.
This is also a pretty tidy solution for LED Light bars

Loc Nar · Jun 14, 2023

DaveB, so the three SUP boards basically created a sail that the gutters could not hold against the bow wave from the truck? Scary stuff! I've also not been impressed by the flex we've seen in the gutters.

DaveB · Jun 14, 2023

Loc Nar said:
DaveB, so the three SUP boards basically created a sail that the gutters could not hold against the bow wave from the truck? Scary stuff! I've also not been impressed by the flex we've seen in the gutters.

Yes
They just tore the roof section out
Not truly a gutter mount more of a roof strip and clamped over the door

Shopkeep · Jun 14, 2023

Arkaig said:
Yes it does cover the tie down bars, but there's still plenty of secure lashing points available.

View attachment 7816373

Looks the business but I bet the price for the full rack & light setup will be astronomical, lucky I still have two healthy kidneys.....

grenadierboy · Jun 14, 2023

DaveB said:
Isn't the Black Sheep one sitting on the roof strips and so also supported by them?
I am very wary of gutter mount racks
A few years ago I had Yakima roof bars on my Mazda BT50 which were gutter mounted
I had three SUP boards mounted on top and doing 100KMH when a large truck went past the other way.
The racks just tore off the roof bending the gutters.
The board landed like a spear in the field next to the road.
Still attached to the racks
Yakima said I should have had the front and rear of the boards strapped to my bumper bars.
I like the way the Black Sheep supports wrap completely around the bar and support the upward load as well as sharing the downward load with the roof
They also still allow good access to the rails as a hand hold when tying stuff on the roof.
I will probably go with the three Black Sheep platforms
I like these big brackets for hanging an awning off as well.
This is also a pretty tidy solution for LED Light bars

View attachment 7816391 View attachment 7816392 View attachment 7816394

So you are ditching the 3/4 Front Runner rack Dave?

DaveB · Jun 14, 2023

grenadierboy said:
So you are ditching the 3/4 Front Runner rack Dave?

I was never going with 3/4 I was always going with a full length, in fact I had them come up with a longer than full length unit
That was before I saw this Black Sheep setup

DCPU · Jun 14, 2023

DaveB said:
Isn't the Black Sheep one sitting on the roof strips and so also supported by them?

I really don't think the roof strips will support any weight. They feel like they are hollow, thin wall plastic. They certainly flex and move between the fixing points. I'd be worried about them splaying and cracking or at best moving under load and wearing through the paint.

I've seen one person address that issue with more helicopter tape.

Now if they were decent heavy duty solid rubber, or such like then it would be a different proposition.

DCPU · Jun 14, 2023

Arkaig said:
Dave - you might also want to take a look at the rack from LeTech, shown in this video from approx 57:00 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkm4LHXPCK8&t=11s

It may just be an optical illusion, or my old eyes, but does that also suffer from wavy gutter syndrome:

bigleonski · Jun 14, 2023

Yep, dodgy AF.

As Thomas from BSI said - we won't be putting anything on the side rails with the exception of the lightbar mount, which effectively holds no weight.

ECrider · Jun 14, 2023

What is that vertical aluminium looking object behind the spare wheel?

I do like the tubing protruding aft from the roof rack. I could work out a pulley arrangement to hook on that when needed to lift the spare up and down.

grenadierboy · Jun 14, 2023

bigleonski said:
Yep, dodgy AF.

As Thomas from BSI said - we won't be putting anything on the side rails with the exception of the lightbar mount, which effectively holds no weight.

I don't understand his reasoning that the gutters for mounting the roof rack are so weak.

The manufacturer has provided significant static & dynamic weight rating for carrying loads above the roof secured via the gutters that they have designed and made.

DenisM · Jun 14, 2023

ECrider said:
What is that vertical aluminium looking object behind the spare wheel?

It's an optical illusion... part of the door frames

minidok · Jun 14, 2023

Arkaig said:
Their website should be up-and-running with full product details, including the alternative twin LED lightbar, and prices in 4 weeks time.

I don't like date announcements, anymore

MrMike · Jun 14, 2023

DCPU said:
It may just be an optical illusion, or my old eyes, but does that also suffer from wavy gutter syndrome:

View attachment 7816462 View attachment 7816463

I must say that is a nice rack, much better IMO, good that they are utilising the roof bars also (?)

das mo · Jun 14, 2023

DCPU said:
It may just be an optical illusion, or my old eyes, but does that also suffer from wavy gutter syndrome:

View attachment 7816462 View attachment 7816463

Yes. It is what I described above. Photos are from the same event I visited. The rack tube defines the line and gutter are pulled where the rack needs them...

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