What's this??

CountyV8 · Jun 7, 2023

Thought they were using an average not peak

DCPU · Jun 7, 2023

MrMike said:
150amps? That's not a lot of load, my Warn pulls max 300 under load.

Again details are few and far between but perhaps the 150A is a continuous rating and so on a lower duty cycle, which the winch would inevitably have, it can handle higher current.

Just for comparison purposes, an Albright 150A contactor is rated as follows:

30% Duty 275A
40% Duty 235A
50% Duty 210A
60% Duty 195A
70% Duty 180A

DCPU · Jun 7, 2023

I did get a further response from Red Winches:

"Sadly I do not have any technical data that I can share on the product itself as all of our documentation on this product contains our IP.

I do not have any further information on how the circuit breaker is integrated into the Grenadier. While we supply this part and were involved in te testing we are not supplying any of the wiring to connect the circuit breaker the vehicle. To be honest your image is the first time I have seen the final location of the circuit breaker.

Apologies that I cannot be of more assistance with this."

I've fired some further questions to Ineos Customer Services with regard to the usage, duty cycle, reset times etc., so will post what I get back.

MrMike · Jun 7, 2023

CountyV8 said:
Thought they were using an average not peak

DCPU said:
Again details are few and far between but perhaps the 150A is a continuous rating and so on a lower duty cycle, which the winch would inevitably have, it can handle higher current.

Just for comparison purposes, an Albright 150A contactor is rated as follows:

30% Duty 275A
40% Duty 235A
50% Duty 210A
60% Duty 195A
70% Duty 180A

The Albright contactors are buy the looks considerably heavier in duty duty than the thermal fuse in the picture. But looks can be deceiving (we hope)

DCPU · Jun 7, 2023

MrMike said:
The Albright contactors are buy the looks considerably heavier in duty duty than the thermal fuse in the picture. But looks can be deceiving (we hope)

Yes, I'm very much with you there - it must be very special IP that Red Winches have to be able to package it so small!

I'll check again, but I'm almost certain that there is a step down in cable sizing going to the MTA connector (jump start terminal) and then from there to the Red Winches circuit breaker and beyond.

MrMike · Jun 7, 2023

DCPU said:
Yes, I'm very much with you there - it must be very special IP that Red Winches have to be able to package it so small!

I'll check again, but I'm almost certain that there is a step down in cable sizing going to the MTA connector (jump start terminal) and then from there to the Red Winches circuit breaker and beyond.

I look forward to the information forthcoming from IA or Redwinch

DCPU · Jun 8, 2023

So in the same area - almost immediately behind the headlight and beneath the MTA jump start terminal is what looks like a high load relay from a company called TE Connectivity:

Heater · Jun 8, 2023

DCPU said:
The interesting thing is that I have this part fitted to my vehicle without the front winch; so it's part of the high load auxiliary switch option rather than the winch option.

So as there is a positive cable snaking off the output to disappear somewhere behind the headlight, it means that there must be a further (safe) termination; or in Ineos language a high load under bonnet output. Perhaps for those that would like an Anderson connector on/under the front bumper.

I use the Anderson connectors direct from my battery on my vehicles And would like to do the same on this vehicle. Does it look like an easy attach to the bonnet output you mentioned? Thanks.

DCPU · Jun 8, 2023

Heater said:
I use the Anderson connectors direct from my battery on my vehicles And would like to do the same on this vehicle. Does it look like an easy attach to the bonnet output you mentioned? Thanks.

I'll let you know when/if I find the cable termination - but it's looking more positive that it's in there somewhere...

DaveB · Jun 8, 2023

DCPU said:
So in the same area - almost immediately behind the headlight and beneath the MTA jump start terminal is what looks like a high load relay from a company called TE Connectivity:View attachment 7815468 View attachment 7815469 View attachment 7815466 View attachment 7815467

TE Connectivity is a US Company called TYCO Electronics
Among many brands I used to distribute Raychem heatshrink products and MV terminations and joints.
They also own Deutsch connectors.

Shop by TE Brands

TE Connectivity is made up of many products brands, including Buchanan, AMP, DEUTSCH, etc., each designed to provide industry-leading connectivity and sensor solutions.

www.te.com

emax · Jun 16, 2023

DCPU said:
If it does cut out it will auto reset after a set amount of time.

It will then hopefully not start the winch unattended.

AWo · Jun 16, 2023

What is the diameter of the cables which serve the winch? If you use the cabling provided by winch manufacturers they are always to small.

Maybe the winch can take more load, even if rarely used (the amp load actually pulled by the winch depends on the real weight which must be pulled and the layer the rope is at. I can provide real world measured figures in different situations to estimate the weight to be pulled). In most cases the pulled amps will be lower than the maximum possible.

If the limit if the cables is set to somewhat over 150 A the dimension of the braker makes sense.

Same setup in our Isuzu D-Max. Cabling and circuit braker will never provide full amps possible. Otherwise you may end up with a diameter of more than 100 square mm.

AWo

DCPU · Jun 20, 2023

MrMike said:
I look forward to the information forthcoming from IA or Redwinch

Well we now have the wording in the winch manual:

"The circuit breaker calculates the current draw over time. If too many amps are drawn by the Winch, then the breaker will trip and cut power to the Winch."

"Isolate the Winch and leave for five minutes with the vehicle's engine is running. This will allow the circuit breaker to self-reset, while the vehicle batteries regain charge."

DCPU · Jun 20, 2023

DCPU said:
So in the same area - almost immediately behind the headlight and beneath the MTA jump start terminal is what looks like a high load relay from a company called TE Connectivity:View attachment 7815469 View attachment 7815466

I've received this reply to the query on this relay:

A little puzzling, as Albright have told me they have provided the front winch relay and in my query I referenced this one as labelled TE Connectivity.

DCPU · Jul 27, 2023

DCPU said:
I've fired some further questions to Ineos Customer Services with regard to the usage, duty cycle, reset times etc., so will post what I get back.

And today's reply:

CountyV8 · Jul 27, 2023

There is a typo in the latest version of the winch manual can anybody tell me what it is

DCPU said:
And today's reply:
View attachment 7821410

There is a typo in the latest version of the winch manual can anybody tell me what it is?

Jiman01 · Jul 27, 2023

@DCPU, is the link for the owners manual openly accessible? I haven’t been able to find a link from the IG site.

I’d like to take a look but I can’t copy/search the link in your post.

Any chance you could post it?

AWo · Jul 27, 2023

A 3.5 t Red Winch? The only ones I could imagine which fits is the Low Line series of red Winch. But these start with 4 t. The other Red Winch winches are like the Warn 8274.
Red Winch states that their winches are deliverd with 30 m of rope. Maybe the IG winch is a winch only available for OEMs?
See https://www.red-winches.com/product-category/electric-winches/lowline/

However, if the rope is too short (?someone here measured 13 meters which are usable? ) and the winch can pull 3.5 at a maximum (on its last rope layer and assuming it can pull the maximum current needed) it could become difficult to pull when stuck in mud or to use a pulley.

BTW, the Red Winch Manual is very interesting. I never saw that a winch manufacturer took so much effort to help customers. They put a lot of weight tables in the manual to estimate the load and pulling power needed. They also compare synthetic ropes to steel ropes (I like steel ropes more...but that is a different thing)....They also try to help to identify damages on synthetic ropes. Great!

The only thing I miss are the numbers for the current drawn at a specific load. In the manual they mention to use the right cable diameter but I do not find the information what the current is, I should use the right diameter for....strange (or my blindness...)

AWo

Lollo050968 · Jul 27, 2023

They are talking about the rear winch! Front winch is 5.5t and 10.30m rope.

AWo · Jul 27, 2023

Arglllwrbschhh....

That means when pulling the car reverse it is lighter?

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