Side steps versus Rock sliders

DCPU · May 13, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
The latest ones seem to run off exhaust.

then that's a really bad idea.

Cheshire cat · May 13, 2023

DCPU said:
then that's a really bad idea.

And using a high lift jack isn’t? Almost 3 tonne of metal on a couple of square inches and you have to get close to it

emax · May 13, 2023

It is never the entire three tons of the car on a jack. At worst, half the weight, usually a little more than a quarter.

But I don't see the problem with the exhaust. Not pretty, I agree. An air compressor would definitely be better. But as a stopgap, why not?

The only problem I see is that the Grenadier has two exhaust pipes that you have to connect with a Y-pipe, I think.

DCPU · May 13, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
And using a high lift jack isn’t? Almost 3 tonne of metal on a couple of square inches and you have to get close to it

Have you seen the contact patch on the provided jack, or pretty much any jack for that matter?

My issues with using an exhaust gas jack are mostly around the faff setting it up, the contact patch being conversely far too large, deflating it, letting all the sooty water out, etc.

Then do you life it for 3 years and then throw away? I wouldn't want to be using a 10 year old bag. My hilift has been cheaply refurbished a couple of times and is 30+ years old. It's very easy to see if it's fit for use ~ what you see is what you get.

emax · May 13, 2023

DCPU said:
letting all the sooty water out

That's indeed an argument. I guess you mean condensed water from the exhaust gas?

grenadierboy · May 14, 2023

emax said:
It is never the entire three tons of the car on a jack. At worst, half the weight, usually a little more than a quarter.

But I don't see the problem with the exhaust. Not pretty, I agree. An air compressor would definitely be better. But as a stopgap, why not?

The only problem I see is that the Grenadier has two exhaust pipes that you have to connect with a Y-pipe, I think.

Exactly.
Rule of thumb is that the jack should be rated to the entire weight of the vehicle (or more).

Yet lifting one side of the car (say in the middle) would mean the jack is supporting LESS THAN 50% of the cars' weight, so there is a large safety margin.

Cheshire cat · May 14, 2023

DCPU said:
Have you seen the contact patch on the provided jack, or pretty much any jack for that matter?

My issues with using an exhaust gas jack are mostly around the faff setting it up, the contact patch being conversely far too large, deflating it, letting all the sooty water out, etc.

Then do you life it for 3 years and then throw away? I wouldn't want to be using a 10 year old bag. My hilift has been cheaply refurbished a couple of times and is 30+ years old. It's very easy to see if it's fit for use ~ what you see is what you get.

In the right hands, a farm Jack is no doubt the best tool but I could imagine loads of serious accidents should it become the norm. If the likes of our breakdown and tyre replacement services are using inflatable jacks I can only image it will be down to efficiency and safety.
I don’t have that much experience of lifting vehicles outside of using a trolley Jack, so certainly not the guru on this subject.

Tazzieman · May 14, 2023

To me , exhaust jacks fall into that "seemed like a good idea when I ordered it , but now that it's arrived..." category.

Cheshire cat · May 14, 2023

Tazzieman said:
To me , exhaust jacks fall into that "seemed like a good idea when I ordered it , but now that it's arrived..." category.

The positive reviews I watched on YouTube came from off-roaders in Australia. As I mentioned earlier, not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be a champion for either method however, with time, technology sometimes improves and makes things that used to be impractical, practical.

Tazzieman · May 14, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
The positive reviews I watched on YouTube came from off-roaders in Australia. As I mentioned earlier, not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be a champion for either method however, with time, technology sometimes improves and makes things that used to be impractical, practical.

None of the "famous" youtubers ever use them (discounting one re released Malcolm Douglas film from 30 years ago). Or if they do , I've never seen one!

Cheshire cat · May 14, 2023

Tazzieman said:
None of the "famous" youtubers ever use them (discounting one re released Malcolm Douglas film from 30 years ago). Or if they do , I've never seen one!

Below is one of a range of reviews

View: https://youtu.be/OTEqK3dmIIE

Cheshire cat · May 14, 2023

One reason I will opt for the Hi-lift in red. Looks far cooler on the ladder rack.

Logsplitter · May 14, 2023

Durability wise the hilift/farm jack will outlast all the other jacks and is simple to repair and maintain .
Yes it’s more dangerous in the wrong hands but follow the correct procedures and all is good. The other benefit is it’s versatility as can be used as a spreader, clamp and a winch.

bemax · May 14, 2023

Rescue services around the world do use pneumatic devices to lift heavy stuff. To use hydraulic equipment you should have certain points to attach the equipment safe. That’s quite easy on tarmac and if you know what parts need to be lifted (eg a tyre) then it can be developed together with the vehicle. If you do not have a certain point you will try to distribute the weight on a maximum of surface to make sure it holds (and nothing brakes). An air cushion will be a little bit flexible on the top to support a bigger surface than the steel head of a hydraulic system.
On rough terrain and at an angle the foot point of the lifting device is of course as important as the head. A pneumatic device might have some advantages here as well.
There’s a lot of reasons why a hydraulic system is better than a pneumatic one as well. But as always- it depends on the use case and everybody’s own preferences.

DCPU · May 14, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
In the right hands, a farm Jack is no doubt the best tool but I could imagine loads of serious accidents should it become the norm. If the likes of our breakdown and tyre replacement services are using inflatable jacks I can only image it will be down to efficiency and safety.
I don’t have that much experience of lifting vehicles outside of using a trolley Jack, so certainly not the guru on this subject.

There's no doubt that hilifts perhaps belong in a group with chainsaws and electric winches when it comes to being able to buy and use without any great thought to the consequences of getting it wrong.

I'm going to guess that the mobile guys using air jacks are going to be of this type:

and there's maybe HSE issues around stowage & lifting in and out of vehicles that make up some of the appeal.

They are a long way from this type of 4x4 air jack:

Cheshire cat · May 14, 2023

That’s that sorted. Inflation Jack, last.

View: https://youtu.be/T5I4gae00Ho

DaBull · May 14, 2023

Does anyone have the measurements of the Grenadier Side Steps. Specifically,
1) How far from the ground to the top of the rubber step?
2) How far from the top of the rubber step to where you would naturally next land your foot getting into the cab?

Sphinx · May 15, 2023

When I test drove the IG, I tried using the rock sliders to step in and it didn't work. There are some aftermarket ones out there that have pull down steps (for jeeps for example) but they were stupid expensive. $2500 USD

DCPU · May 15, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
That’s that sorted. Inflation Jack, last.

View: https://youtu.be/T5I4gae00Ho

But which one "won"?

DCPU · May 15, 2023

bemax said:
Rescue services around the world do use pneumatic devices to lift heavy stuff.

I'm no expert on latest kit and techniques but I was swapping stories with a firefighter many years ago, and we got onto the subject of air bags and their use. The air bags they used then were primarily used as passive support to stabilise things rather than active lifting in rescue situations.

One of the reasons being the large contact patches of bags made the actual predictability of how exactly they would move a load when inflated so difficult. Not what you want with a load trapping someone's legs.

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