Towing Again

DaveB said:

Strange
I built it up from basic Station wagon to Trialmaster spec and you get everything except the jacket
You can select either tow ball then
[/QUOTE

DCPU said:

I don't think you ever will.

Go along to any competent trailer dealer and they should be able to sort you out with what you want.

M1 vehicles need type approved equipment, so that's the towing bracket (vertical towing interface in Ineos' parlance) and the final means of connection ~ 50mm ball, 50mm ball & pin, & NATO pintle.

The vertical towing interface is type approved ~ you photo shows the mandatory labelling.

Anything you attach to it also has to be type approved & importantly fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's fitting instructions.

50mm balls, 50mm ball & pins, & NATO pintles are all available as type approved products. Here's a type approved NATO pintle:
View attachment 7805425

The only thing you have to bear in mind is to take the lowest rated value of any component into account when assessing the overall rating of the system.

So fitting a NATO pintle with a D value of 30.95kN and S value of 350kg to an Ineos vertical towing interface with a D value of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg, gets you a system rating of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg.

And then onto one of things I think Ineos has cocked up. The 50mm ball and pin offered appears to be only a 2 bolt version (4 bolt versions are available). The 2 bolt versions (to best of my knowledge) all seem to only have a S value of 250kg. Is that appropriate for a 3,500kg train weight?

The second thing Ineos have cocked up on is stating in the configurator that the the 50mm ball can fit into any of the 3 sets of holes. It can't, the hole size and spacing are both different:
View attachment 7805426

N1 vehicles don't appear to need type approval for towing equipment (in the UK).

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I don't think you ever will.

Go along to any competent trailer dealer and they should be able to sort you out with what you want.

M1 vehicles need type approved equipment, so that's the towing bracket (vertical towing interface in Ineos' parlance) and the final means of connection ~ 50mm ball, 50mm ball & pin, & NATO pintle.

The vertical towing interface is type approved ~ you photo shows the mandatory labelling.

Anything you attach to it also has to be type approved & importantly fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's fitting instructions.

50mm balls, 50mm ball & pins, & NATO pintles are all available as type approved products. Here's a type approved NATO pintle:
View attachment 7805425

The only thing you have to bear in mind is to take the lowest rated value of any component into account when assessing the overall rating of the system.

So fitting a NATO pintle with a D value of 30.95kN and S value of 350kg to an Ineos vertical towing interface with a D value of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg, gets you a system rating of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg.

And then onto one of things I think Ineos has cocked up. The 50mm ball and pin offered appears to be only a 2 bolt version (4 bolt versions are available). The 2 bolt versions (to best of my knowledge) all seem to only have a S value of 250kg. Is that appropriate for a 3,500kg train weight?

The second thing Ineos have cocked up on is stating in the configurator that the the 50mm ball can fit into any of the 3 sets of holes. It can't, the hole size and spacing are both different:
View attachment 7805426

N1 vehicles don't appear to need type approval for towing equipment (in the UK).

Click to expand...

Well summed up.

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I don't think you ever will.

Go along to any competent trailer dealer and they should be able to sort you out with what you want.

M1 vehicles need type approved equipment, so that's the towing bracket (vertical towing interface in Ineos' parlance) and the final means of connection ~ 50mm ball, 50mm ball & pin, & NATO pintle.

The vertical towing interface is type approved ~ you photo shows the mandatory labelling.

Anything you attach to it also has to be type approved & importantly fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's fitting instructions.

50mm balls, 50mm ball & pins, & NATO pintles are all available as type approved products. Here's a type approved NATO pintle:
View attachment 7805425

The only thing you have to bear in mind is to take the lowest rated value of any component into account when assessing the overall rating of the system.

So fitting a NATO pintle with a D value of 30.95kN and S value of 350kg to an Ineos vertical towing interface with a D value of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg, gets you a system rating of 17.2kN and S value of 350kg.

And then onto one of things I think Ineos has cocked up. The 50mm ball and pin offered appears to be only a 2 bolt version (4 bolt versions are available). The 2 bolt versions (to best of my knowledge) all seem to only have a S value of 250kg. Is that appropriate for a 3,500kg train weight?

The second thing Ineos have cocked up on is stating in the configurator that the the 50mm ball can fit into any of the 3 sets of holes. It can't, the hole size and spacing are both different:
View attachment 7805426

N1 vehicles don't appear to need type approval for towing equipment (in the UK).

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I'll be starting where I'm most comfortable with, and that's trying to match my requirements up with off the shelf (and type approved) products from Dixon Bate:
View attachment 7805431
It's all about the backing plate and whether there's a match for 4 (or all 6) bolts, and the maximum distance (drop) allowable between the backplate fixing bolts and the bolts attaching the 50mm ball to the sliding plate without having to resort to lower bracing legs back to the chassis.

Should all this info be available from Ineos? Yes of course, but it simply isn't at present, and marketing information seems to have had zero engineering sign-off.

Of course this is all based on the correctness of this assumption "the hitch is too high".

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I'll be starting where I'm most comfortable with, and that's trying to match my requirements up with off the shelf (and type approved) products from Dixon Bate:
View attachment 7805431
It's all about the backing plate and whether there's a match for 4 (or all 6) bolts, and the maximum distance (drop) allowable between the backplate fixing bolts and the bolts attaching the 50mm ball to the sliding plate without having to resort to lower bracing legs back to the chassis.

Should all this info be available from Ineos? Yes of course, but it simply isn't at present, and marketing information seems to have had zero engineering sign-off.

Of course this is all based on the correctness of this assumption "the hitch is too high".

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I'll be starting where I'm most comfortable with, and that's trying to match my requirements up with off the shelf (and type approved) products from Dixon Bate:
View attachment 7805431
It's all about the backing plate and whether there's a match for 4 (or all 6) bolts, and the maximum distance (drop) allowable between the backplate fixing bolts and the bolts attaching the 50mm ball to the sliding plate without having to resort to lower bracing legs back to the chassis.

Should all this info be available from Ineos? Yes of course, but it simply isn't at present, and marketing information seems to have had zero engineering sign-off.

Of course this is all based on the correctness of this assumpt

Click to expand...

DCPU said:

I'll be starting where I'm most comfortable with, and that's trying to match my requirements up with off the shelf (and type approved) products from Dixon Bate:
View attachment 7805431
It's all about the backing plate and whether there's a match for 4 (or all 6) bolts, and the maximum distance (drop) allowable between the backplate fixing bolts and the bolts attaching the 50mm ball to the sliding plate without having to resort to lower bracing legs back to the chassis.

Should all this info be available from Ineos? Yes of course, but it simply isn't at present, and marketing information seems to have had zero engineering sign-off.

Of course this is all based on the correctness of this assumption "the hitch is too high".

Click to expand...

Eric said:

Just fit one of these from Maypole, gives the ball and pin connection, and the pin connection is lower.

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CountyV8 said:

Want the ball lower

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Eric said:

Sack of cement in the back of the car

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CountyV8 said:

Want the ball lower

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Eric said:

I am not worrying until I get the car and hitch it up. I have all sorts of Ifor Williams trailers (3.5T -> 0.75T) and IWT horse boxes. And towed with Discovery 2, 3, 4 and Isuzu trooper and even Daihatsu Fourtrac and never had a tow hitch height problem. So am not envisaging the Grenadier will result in unsurmountable problems. Panic not!

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CountyV8 said:

yes but there not 10M long

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Width and length​

Eric said:

Here in the UK we are restricted to 7m long so it does arise for me. UK gov website:-

Width and length​

The maximum trailer width for any towing vehicle is 2.55 metres.

The maximum length for a trailer towed by a vehicle weighing up to 3,500kg is 7 metres. This length does not include the A-frame.

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CountyV8 said:

comes under indivisible. load

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Eric said:

Ah, wind turbine blades!!

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DCPU said:

I'll be starting where I'm most comfortable with, and that's trying to match my requirements up with off the shelf (and type approved) products from Dixon Bate:
View attachment 7805431
It's all about the backing plate and whether there's a match for 4 (or all 6) bolts, and the maximum distance (drop) allowable between the backplate fixing bolts and the bolts attaching the 50mm ball to the sliding plate without having to resort to lower bracing legs back to the chassis.

Should all this info be available from Ineos? Yes of course, but it simply isn't at present, and marketing information seems to have had zero engineering sign-off.

Of course this is all based on the correctness of this assumption "the hitch is too high".

Click to expand...

zucc487 said:

250kg? i tought it s 350kg? or is it only this towbar who offers only 250kg?

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DCPU said:

But if that's the Ineos offering for the combined ball & pin option then they've de-rated the system.

Click to expand...