warning - self locking grenadier with keys inside

[James]

So, I discovered that the Grenadier is capable of locking itself, with the keys inside.

Having driven up my street to where we were practising bushfire fighting, and therefore expecting to be getting wet, I took the key out of the ignition and left it by the gearstick, and shut the door.
When I returned to the car some time later, it had locked itself. It is not possible that I pushed the keyfob, and no one touched the car in the interim (fully in view). The second key fob is a very long way away.

There is no obvious setting in the vehicle settings to enable or disable this, but most of the 'smart' central locking functions were inactive.
The dealer (who was superb in supporting me, a continuing track record of excellent backup for Alex and Purnell in Sydney) does not know how this "feature" is to be controlled, or if it is intentional or not.

Obviously, don't trust the car and leave keys in without windows open, until we get this sorted.
If it happens, roadside assistance can not effect entry, tell them about the double door seals, and you may avoid wasting hours for that step before escalation.
An automotive locksmith is required, and they will appreciate being told that a Renault type tool will work (I think from vans); the lock may be from the same French supplier Renault uses.

Bon voyage....

 

[Logsplitter]

So, I discovered that the Grenadier is capable of locking itself, with the keys inside.

Having driven up my street to where we were practising bushfire fighting, and therefore expecting to be getting wet, I took the key out of the ignition and left it by the gearstick, and shut the door.
When I returned to the car some time later, it had locked itself. It is not possible that I pushed the keyfob, and no one touched the car in the interim (fully in view). The second key fob is a very long way away.

There is no obvious setting in the vehicle settings to enable or disable this, but most of the 'smart' central locking functions were inactive.
The dealer (who was superb in supporting me, a continuing track record of excellent backup for Alex and Purnell in Sydney) does not know how this "feature" is to be controlled, or if it is intentional or not.

Obviously, don't trust the car and leave keys in without windows open, until we get this sorted.
If it happens, roadside assistance can not effect entry, tell them about the double door seals, and you may avoid wasting hours for that step before escalation.
An automotive locksmith is required, and they will appreciate being told that a Renault type tool will work (I think from vans); the lock may be from the same French supplier Renault uses.

Bon voyage....

Sorry for you but a good tip

 

[AWo]

Was another car or remote controlled thing near? Or is it normal behaviour to close automatically after some time?

AWo

 

[Solmanic]

I think you’ll find this is a common thing with cars that don’t recognise if the key is still inside when it’s removed from the ignition. I’ve known this to happen to someone in another brand of vehicle at the top of our driveway when they got out to empty some rubbish. It’s also a problem that results in babies being locked in vehicles from time to time, and those usually make the news.

 

[Logsplitter]

I think you’ll find this is a common thing with cars that don’t recognise if the key is still inside when it’s removed from the ignition. I’ve known this to happen to someone in another brand of vehicle at the top of our driveway when they got out to empty some rubbish. It’s also a problem that results in babies being locked in vehicles from time to time, and those usually make the news.

Yes our friends kids got locked in their VW people carrier a couple of years back with keys out of the ignition.

 

[James]

It does seem to be more common in markets with carjacking, but in remote travel it is common to want to leave the keys in the vehicle, and also sometimes as I did today.
There should be the ability to turn this off, and obviously some warning that it is there in the settings.

AWo, no there were no other nearby vehicle activations, or obvious RF interference, in the cul de sac (dead end street) most residents were with us on the hoses.

I will be looking to get a key blank cut that can open the door (but not start the car) and have that hidden on the underbody.

 

[Tazzieman]

It happens in my 1982 Porsche 928 ; something to do with the highly complex mechanical lock (I disabled the central locking)
I've trained myself never to shut the door with the keys by themselves inside.

At the very least keep the window down.
And find a spot to hide the spare

 

[AWo]

The remote keys often use a band of frequences which do not require a registration. On the other hand they're only working on short distance and users must accept disturbances by other devices.

We saw that already with cars parking in our driveway which interference with a door opener from a garage door opener.

That is the price for that cheap solution, which requires no tests, no registrations, no license etc.

For this unlicensed usafe the ITU (International Telecommunication Union) has reserved four frequenzies: 433 MHz, 868 MHz, 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. 433 MHz with its long wave lenght can easy travel through obstacles, but it is for about 30 meters. Very often this is used for remote control of devices. There is no mechanism for protection against interferences implemented. Thereby two cars parked next to each other can cause both to be locked or other effects.

AWo

 

[ECrider]

The other bstard feature on some is the 'open boot only' function which does not open the doors. Put keys on top of dog cage, pick up whatever you need, shut boot.......self locks. Queue sick feeling and hopless hope that you have not left them on the dog cage and infact they are in your back pocket, check back pocket in vain, queue much profanity and kicking.

 

[IG Pop]

It seems when I’m further away from the Grenadier (just few meters) and I unlock the car via key, it activates the car (lights etc. go on) but the doors remain locked. When I stand next to the vehicle I have to press the open button again on the key to enter.
Some kind of sensing must be going on?!

 

[AnD3rew]

So, I discovered that the Grenadier is capable of locking itself, with the keys inside.

Having driven up my street to where we were practising bushfire fighting, and therefore expecting to be getting wet, I took the key out of the ignition and left it by the gearstick, and shut the door.
When I returned to the car some time later, it had locked itself. It is not possible that I pushed the keyfob, and no one touched the car in the interim (fully in view). The second key fob is a very long way away.

There is no obvious setting in the vehicle settings to enable or disable this, but most of the 'smart' central locking functions were inactive.
The dealer (who was superb in supporting me, a continuing track record of excellent backup for Alex and Purnell in Sydney) does not know how this "feature" is to be controlled, or if it is intentional or not.

Obviously, don't trust the car and leave keys in without windows open, until we get this sorted.
If it happens, roadside assistance can not effect entry, tell them about the double door seals, and you may avoid wasting hours for that step before escalation.
An automotive locksmith is required, and they will appreciate being told that a Renault type tool will work (I think from vans); the lock may be from the same French supplier Renault uses.

Bon voyage....

Thank you for the heads up in this. Normally cars with self lock sense the key is inside and won’t lock. But definitely a problem if you are out bush.

 

[Miki]

Audi (TT and A6), Toyota (Hilux), VW (Passat), Aston Martin (Vantage), Jeep, BMW - most (if not all) modern cars do this.
If you leave the key in the ignition does the car 'ping ping ping' when you open the door ?
If yes, thats the sensor and the reminder for you to 'take the key' because with the key in the ignition, the car won't lock.

Active keying, like the V5 Discoveries etc that don't have an ignition key (just a push to start button) won't lock if you leave the key in/near the car as it's actively looking for/sensing it.

Rule #6: When you get out of your car either leave the keys in the ignition or take them with you.

 

[DaveB]

So, I discovered that the Grenadier is capable of locking itself, with the keys inside.

Having driven up my street to where we were practising bushfire fighting, and therefore expecting to be getting wet, I took the key out of the ignition and left it by the gearstick, and shut the door.
When I returned to the car some time later, it had locked itself. It is not possible that I pushed the keyfob, and no one touched the car in the interim (fully in view). The second key fob is a very long way away.

There is no obvious setting in the vehicle settings to enable or disable this, but most of the 'smart' central locking functions were inactive.
The dealer (who was superb in supporting me, a continuing track record of excellent backup for Alex and Purnell in Sydney) does not know how this "feature" is to be controlled, or if it is intentional or not.

Obviously, don't trust the car and leave keys in without windows open, until we get this sorted.
If it happens, roadside assistance can not effect entry, tell them about the double door seals, and you may avoid wasting hours for that step before escalation.
An automotive locksmith is required, and they will appreciate being told that a Renault type tool will work (I think from vans); the lock may be from the same French supplier Renault uses.

Bon voyage....

Possibly some good Samaritan saw the vehicle unlocked with the keys in it, thought "that's a good way to get your car stolen" and locked it for you.

 

[DaveB]

I think you’ll find this is a common thing with cars that don’t recognise if the key is still inside when it’s removed from the ignition. I’ve known this to happen to someone in another brand of vehicle at the top of our driveway when they got out to empty some rubbish. It’s also a problem that results in babies being locked in vehicles from time to time, and those usually make the news.

My Mercedes locks and arms the alarm if left unattended and turned off.
It will also close the windows and roof if it detects rain on the windscreen

 

[Tazzieman]

Normally cars with self lock sense the key is inside and won’t lock. But definitely a problem if you are out bush.

I mean , what would you do?

 

[DaveB]

I mean , what would you do?

If the key isn't a proximity key there is nothing to sense.
When i travel I always take the spare key with me in case the main key is locked in, damaged or lost.
i work on the theory there is very little chance both keys will get locked in the car.
you can of course hide a spare key somewhere on the outside of the vehicle.

 

[Eric]

you can of course hide a spare key somewhere on the outside of the vehicle.

Inside the front bumper, there's room for a locksmith as well to be stored in there.

 

[James]

Possibly some good Samaritan saw the vehicle unlocked with the keys in it, thought "that's a good way to get your car stolen" and locked it for you.

Dave, firstly I was watching the car the whole time, which is why it was safe to leave them, where they wouldn't get wet. Secondly, anyone (from Samaria or anywhere else could not lock the car then put the keys inside.

 

[DaveB]

Inside the front bumper, there's room for a locksmith as well to be stored in there.

not in Australia

 

[James]

Thank you for the heads up in this. Normally cars with self lock sense the key is inside and won’t lock. But definitely a problem if you are out bush.

Yes, thanks Andrew. This is the bit I hope Ineos notice. Other cars might do this, but there's lots of reasons out bush that we might want to leave the keys in the car, it's pretty important that we can disable this feature.
I can't imagine that Jim himself would emerge from a quick swim in Iceland or Botswana and be happy his car was keeping his keys, phone and radio prisoner where he left them.... I think he might be ropable that the programmers didn't think of this!
I'm very lucky I kept my phone, its only because it is waterproof, or I'd have been much more stuck.