Vibrations at certain RPM

[Maxwell]

Balance the prop-shaft....

AWo

AWo, I really value your technical expertise in general, but you are not a Grenadier Owner and I would assume that the prop-shaft was balanced. Thus, I really need to get some feedback from owners of Diesel Grenadiers and how the issue was solved or not. Sorry.

 

[Clark Kent]

Think it happened more in the diesel versions than petrol correct?

Good question. Has anyone with a B58 petrol reported a vibration issue in the 1850-2000rpm range?

The B57 Diesel and ZF 8HPxx transmission are well proven in BMW vehicles. In the Grenadier we have a different mounting arrangement plus the addition of a transfer case, which adds length and gearing, and reportedly an upgraded torque converter. All of that should be common to the B58 petrol - except for the transmission which for petrol is 8HP50 and for diesel is 8HP76. I wonder if the upgraded torque converter is common to both?

@NQ94 enlightened us on the different natural characteristics of diesel versus petrol engines and I speculated earlier about diesel exhaust pulses or droning. To me this vibration is engine rpm and load sensitive, not road speed sensitive. Try it for yourself. Very lightly adjust the throttle pedal while in the vibe zone and you can feel it fade in and out with load and small rpm changes.

It just occurred to me that my brother in law is a PHD Engineer and a University Lecturer in this stuff. He runs a business that specialises in structural acoustics monitoring and analysis and vibration minimisation. It's time I got him over again for a BBQ

 

[Maxwell]

Good question. Has anyone with a B58 petrol reported a vibration issue in the 1850-2000rpm range?

The B57 Diesel and ZF 8HPxx transmission are well proven in BMW vehicles. In the Grenadier we have a different mounting arrangement plus the addition of a transfer case, which adds length and gearing, and reportedly an upgraded torque converter. All of that should be common to the B58 petrol - except for the transmission which for petrol is 8HP50 and for diesel is 8HP76. I wonder if the upgraded torque converter is common to both?

@NQ94 enlightened us on the different natural characteristics of diesel versus petrol engines and I speculated earlier about diesel exhaust pulses or droning. To me this vibration is engine rpm and load sensitive, not road speed sensitive. Try it for yourself. Very lightly adjust the throttle pedal while in the vibe zone and you can feel it fade in and out with load and small rpm changes.

It just occurred to me that my brother in law is a PHD Engineer and a University Lecturer in this stuff. He runs a business that specialises in structural acoustics monitoring and analysis and vibration minimisation. It's time I got him over again for a BBQ

What about your Grenadier? Or do you have a petrol?

 

[Clark Kent]

How about your Grenadier? Or do you have a petrol?

Diesel. And yes I have this vibration. See my earlier contributions.

 

[Maxwell]

Diesel. And yes I have this vibration. See my earlier contributions.

Have you addressed this issue? Do you have an early VIN? Mine is in the very low 1.000 plus.

 

[AWo]

AWo, I really value your technical expertise in general, but you are not a Grenadier Owner and I would assume that the prop-shaft was balanced. Thus, I really need to get some feedback from owners of Diesel Grenadiers and how the issue was solved or not. Sorry.

No problem...but what if something went wrong with some prop shafts...like with other parts which got exchanged over time... or have you ever heard about a solution?

Just a guess...

And you're right. It is a not my problem problem.

Fun fact: if you ever meet a 101 FWC owner ask him about the noise and vibratiion when cruising around 90 km/h. He will achknowledge that. It is due the angle the universal joint of the front propshaft is bend if the vehicle is not heavily loaded. You can do nothing about that, many things were tried and the propshafts are balanced. It is a design fault and Land Rover did nothing about that. However, I don't think that there is an Ineos design fault.

AWo

 

[Clark Kent]

Have you addressed this issue?

No, or I would have shared the solution. There is a lot of discussion and ideas. I'm in that group. Unless Ineos acknowledge this vibration as an issue for resolution it may never be addressed.

 

[Maxwell]

No problem...but what if something went wrong with some prop shafts...like with other parts which got exchanged over time... or have you ever heard about a solution?

Just a guess...

AWo

No, I haven’t heard about a solution. However, people post more about problems and frequently forget to post solutions. I am desperately looking for a solution. Otherwise I will return the vehicle and demand a refund.

 

[Maxwell]

No, or I would have shared the solution. There is a lot of discussion and ideas. I'm in that group. Unless Ineos acknowledge this vibration as an issue for resolution it may never be addressed.

Interesting Why has the discussion of this issue then somehow ceased until now?! For me the vibrations totally ruin the joy and the Grenadier experience.

 

[Clark Kent]

Interesting Why has the discussion of this issue then somehow ceased until now?! For me the vibrations totally ruin the joy and the Grenadier experience.

Acceptance? A form of Stockholm Syndrome? It's a characteristic that I would prefer didn't exist but it's not troubling me enough to aggressively pursue a solution and for me is not grounds for a refund. But I'm me, not you.

There is a rolling wave effect with the discussion of these issues. As each market comes online there is a new group of owners experiencing for themselves what they read about earlier. Unfortunately this causes hypersensitivity towards some issues that ultimately are not deal breakers once owners take delivery.

My advice to our US friends who are committed to their purchase and waiting for delivery is to stop reading about gripes from other markets. It will create buyer remorse, anxiety, and will spoil your experience. Enjoy your imperfect vehicle. I know I am. Of course if you're not yet committed then use all this chatter as research so you proceed eyes wide open, but also know that MY24 vehicles for the NA market will be evolved and different so don't fall for group-think.

 

[Maxwell]

Acceptance? A form of Stockholm Syndrome? It's a characteristic that I would prefer didn't exist but it's not troubling me enough to aggressively pursue a solution and for me is not grounds for a refund. But I'm me, not you.

There is a rolling wave effect with the discussion of these issues. As each market comes online there is a new group of owners experiencing for themselves what they read about earlier. Unfortunately this causes hypersensitivity towards some issues that ultimately are not deal breakers once owners take delivery.

My advice to our US friends who are committed to their purchase and waiting for delivery is to stop reading about gripes from other markets. It will create buyer remorse, anxiety, and will spoil your experience. Enjoy your imperfect vehicle. I know I am. Of course if you're not yet committed then use all this chatter as research so you proceed eyes wide open, but also know that MY24 vehicles for the NA market will be evolved and different so don't fall for group-think.

The NA vehicles are all petrol. The diesel versions appear to have at least one more flaw.

One addition: I also own a 1955 Sunbeam Alpine. That car also has got a ladder frame - but a petrol engine. The car runs unfortunately smoother than my Grenadier currently.

 

[Clark Kent]

The NA vehicles are all petrol. The diesel versions appear to have at least one more flaw.

One addition: I also own a 1955 Sunbeam Alpine. That car also has got a ladder frame - but a petrol engine. The car runs unfortunately smoother than my Grenadier currently.

A flaw can also be a beauty spot.
I hope you can find a way to be at peace with this issue. It would be a shame to reject the vehicle on this alone but it may be a final straw for you. Good luck!
That Alpine sounds great. Got a pic?

 

[trobex]

I sit in the 4500s VIN range and Diesel. I only seem to get vibration at 750‐800RPM - i.e at idle. I have not felt vibration at any other RPM. It doesn't matter if im in forward or reverse or park modes but when at idle is there. It is noticed through the footwell, doors, steering wheel and even felt just through the padding of these seats... so certainly noticable as is a full body vibration.

 

[DenisM]

I sit in the 4500s VIN range and Diesel. I only seem to get vibration at 750‐800RPM - i.e at idle. I have not felt vibration at any other RPM. It doesn't matter if im in forward or reverse or park modes but when at idle is there. It is noticed through the footwell, doors, steering wheel and even felt just through the padding of these seats... so certainly noticable as is a full body vibration.

My VIN is just past 2000 (Trialmaster diesel). There's the usual subdued diesel "clatter" at idle but no "whole of body vibration" (entertainment extra?). There's an occasional sympathetic harmonic vibration which may be resonance in one of the metal shields.
Both prior and after the T/F case replacement there was no/is no vehicle vibration on smooth motorway surfaces between 80 and 110kmh in 6th/7th or 8th gear.
Vibrations of this nature were prevalent in my former RR 4.6 V8 (P38)... almost solved by altering the phasing of the UJs in the driveline and using a rubber bushing in said driveline. (no doubt exacerbated by the altered ground clearance via the air suspension... (A double Cardin prop shaft was going to be my next step had I decided to keep the vehicle.)
I'm wondering if anyone who has altered the ride height in their Grenadier has noticed a change in the vibration "feel" of the vehicle as a result of a changed driveshaft angles between the diffs and transfer case?

 

[James]

Another diesel to report with no apparent vibration so far, although I have not given it a lot of beans up hill in tall gears yet, still being kind to the engine. But I’ve had a decent poke around in the reported rev range up hills without anything concerning. Vibration at idle is as I expected too. Less refined than the petrol of course, but not a massive difference, and definitely better range/mileage.

 

[James]

There is a rolling wave effect with the discussion of these issues. As each market comes online there is a new group of owners experiencing for themselves what they read about earlier. Unfortunately this causes hypersensitivity towards some issues that ultimately are not deal breakers once owners take delivery.

My advice to our US friends who are committed to their purchase and waiting for delivery is to stop reading about gripes from other markets. It will create buyer remorse, anxiety, and will spoil your experience. Enjoy your imperfect vehicle. I know I am. Of course if you're not yet committed then use all this chatter as research so you proceed eyes wide open, but also know that MY24 vehicles for the NA market will be evolved and different so don't fall for group-think.

very wise advice.
strongly agree.
awesome car. Very happy. Not deluded, not part of some cult, not ignoring reality or anything. Just happy with a great bit of design. Could my version of it “being perfect“ have anything different on it?
silly question. There’s nothing on earth for which you cant ask that and get a yes.
i will say ive not bought a car before that’s this well suited to me. Close, but not this close.

 

[trobex]

very wise advice.
strongly agree.
awesome car. Very happy. Not deluded, not part of some cult, not ignoring reality or anything. Just happy with a great bit of design. Could my version of it “being perfect“ have anything different on it?
silly question. There’s nothing on earth for which you cant ask that and get a yes.
i will say ive not bought a car before that’s this well suited to me. Close, but not this close.

Less vibrations at 4KRPM as BMW engine should be driven

 

[Wilaspira]

Acceptance? A form of Stockholm Syndrome? It's a characteristic that I would prefer didn't exist but it's not troubling me enough to aggressively pursue a solution and for me is not grounds for a refund. But I'm me, not you.

There is a rolling wave effect with the discussion of these issues. As each market comes online there is a new group of owners experiencing for themselves what they read about earlier. Unfortunately this causes hypersensitivity towards some issues that ultimately are not deal breakers once owners take delivery.

My advice to our US friends who are committed to their purchase and waiting for delivery is to stop reading about gripes from other markets. It will create buyer remorse, anxiety, and will spoil your experience. Enjoy your imperfect vehicle. I know I am. Of course if you're not yet committed then use all this chatter as research so you proceed eyes wide open, but also know that MY24 vehicles for the NA market will be evolved and different so don't fall for group-think.

Same v slight vibration/resonant frequency at 1800 rpm or so on early diesel N1 5 seater but not enough of an issue to be an ”issue” (vs erratic heating) and in same general folder as not an issue footrest etc

 

[Chadd7]

I have a petrol in the US. I do not have the vibration folks here describe, but I hear an annoying exhaust drone at 60-70mph at roughly 1800-2000 rpm. It's like a deep subwoofer-like hum. When you let off the gas, it disappears. Problem is that I need to maintain cruising speed there.

 

[bemax]

I have a petrol in the US. I do not have the vibration folks here describe, but I hear an annoying exhaust drone at 60-70mph at roughly 1800-2000 rpm. It's like a deep subwoofer-like hum. When you let off the gas, it disappears. Problem is that I need to maintain cruising speed there.

I see that you take it for a good reason as an exhaust drone. But it might as well be the heat shield near the exhaust. I wouldn’t know how to separate those noises as they would have the same sort of origin (Natural frequency of one component)