USA Grenadier Experience (Los Angeles Region California) 07-09 Mar

[Stu_Barnes]

If you're going let people know, if you don't know anything about this event and think that you should have been notified, then tell INEOS Automotive..........

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I'm booked on the LA event on the 8'th at 11:30 - 12:30 if anyone what's to say hi, 11:00 - 12:00 slots already booked out.

Also I know the Trail that I think they'll be using, there's pretty much only one there that offers any distance, it takes about an hour and is a point to point. Unless they are sitting up their own course etc.

For reference if it is the truck trail then an unmodified LR4 Disco 4 did it with ease on street Continentals albeit slowly and protecting side walls, there's a partial diversion that you can take with a bit of a drop off though and if they take this then the Disco would need off-road tires. Bear in mind that the recent rain may have made this into a particularly gnarly trail. I've not been there in 12 months.

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/california/rowher-ohv-trail-to-bouquet-reservoir

View: https://youtu.be/Z_bKVxr18sQ

 

[ROAVAOR]

In for the 9th at 1:30pm, but plan to try to get there earlier.

Much more rain this weekend, so let's see what happens to the trail.

Initially the form didn't like my email, wasn't on a list somewhere. A couple mins on the chat and they went away to work on adding it, 2 days later I was registered. https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/events

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Also if you decline to take a plus 1 then change your mind, email them on the contact address and they'll make the changes for you assuming the event isn't full.

 

[Ovrland Bill]

Hopefully this will not affect ROADS to be used by INEOS but, FYI (from U.S. Forest Service):

“Off-Highway Vehicle Areas
Date(s): Feb 22, 2023

Due to possible flooding at off-highway vehicle (OHV) areas in the Angeles National Forest over the next couple of weeks:

• Rowher Flat OHV Area - Temporarily closed until further notice”

 

[ROAVAOR]

Another storm coming, due to do my drive tomorrow, no word from Ineos on impact.

 

[ROAVAOR]

Maybe those attending today can share their experience, and inquire what their plan is for the storm.

 

[Kb6tho]

Had the great pleasure of driving a Grenadier today. We did a 20min “out and back” along a dirt track with some ruts, a little mud and some short hill climbs and descents. It has been 20+ years since I’ve been to Rowher Flats, and that was in a UNIMOG 404, so today was “different” from that last visit.

Overall the Grenadier handled everything exceptionally well. Steering was just fine, similar to my current ‘83 110 Rover, so no surprises there. Ride was comfortable and visibility was excellent. We did an appx 25 degree rutty cross slope with no worries. Hill descent speed is adjustable… was a bit quick going down our first hill, so clicked it back to about 2mph on the second.

Nice mix of units to see and the INEOS folks were super helpful with our questions. Interior build quality left a little to be desired, however these are not production units, so that may change for the better.

I look to mount some ham radios, however just like pretty much all current vehicles, that is something of a challenge. I appreciated my INEOS co-pilot’s candor, “Yes, I see where that will take some thought”.

Overall a competent vehicle that will suit my needs quite well with room to explore and grow. Thank you INEOS team for a great day!

 

[YellowLab]

Maybe those attending today can share their experience, and inquire what their plan is for the storm.

I attended today and had a great time - vehicle is fantastic off road - it does not have tires, it has claws! Sadly reading many reviewers that say the steering is horrific on road - hopefully they address.

 

[BD1]

Had the great pleasure of driving a Grenadier today. We did a 20min “out and back” along a dirt track with some ruts, a little mud and some short hill climbs and descents. It has been 20+ years since I’ve been to Rowher Flats, and that was in a UNIMOG 404, so today was “different” from that last visit.

Overall the Grenadier handled everything exceptionally well. Steering was just fine, similar to my current ‘83 110 Rover, so no surprises there. Ride was comfortable and visibility was excellent. We did an appx 25 degree rutty cross slope with no worries. Hill descent speed is adjustable… was a bit quick going down our first hill, so clicked it back to about 2mph on the second.

Nice mix of units to see and the INEOS folks were super helpful with our questions. Interior build quality left a little to be desired, however these are not production units, so that may change for the better.

I look to mount some ham radios, however just like pretty much all current vehicles, that is something of a challenge. I appreciated my INEOS co-pilot’s candor, “Yes, I see where that will take some thought”.

Overall a competent vehicle that will suit my needs quite well with room to explore and grow. Thank you INEOS team for a great day!

Thanks for sharing....I have no concerns about capability, chassis, or exterior. Your comments about the interior make me wonder. I know it is a prototype but some people say the interior is great and others, like you, raise some concerns.

 

[Kb6tho]

The plastic housing for the 2nd row vents/USB ports seemed a bit lightweight... pretty much all other aspects were solid. Maybe that is why I noticed it?
A nice change to that housing would be to have a pair of USB A and USB C ports as opposed to just one of each.
Overall, just a sweet unit.

 

[YellowLab]

I drove one as well today - very capable. I am concerned with many journalists who have been very supportive of the vehicle are noting that the 'on road' steering is truly aweful - no feel, 4-6 inches of play in the steering wheel, and vague non-confidence performance. That is concerning - I'm carefully looking at every reviewers road thoughts at this point. Off road is one thing - but since most of us drive to off road it sounds as though it needs some attention.

 

[Max]

I drove one as well today - very capable. I am concerned with many journalists who have been very supportive of the vehicle are noting that the 'on road' steering is truly aweful - no feel, 4-6 inches of play in the steering wheel, and vague non-confidence performance. That is concerning - I'm carefully looking at every reviewers road thoughts at this point. Off road is one thing - but since most of us drive to off road it sounds as though it needs some attention.

Those who have not driven this type of steering setup, that would be most of the reviewers, will initially have the feeling of weightlessness or vagueness as they say at some stage on a hard surfaced road, usually when cruising in a straight line you may not feel that directness...we adapt very quickly and it will not bother you...it also has the ability to take the shock out of potholes as you will find off road, it does not want to ripe the wheel out of your hands...yesteryear we drove with our thumbs on the outside of the steering wheel off road to save having them twisted up by rucks that would straighten your wheels and rip the steering wheel smashing your thumbs with the spokes...I still by habit drive that way...the Ineos Grenadier has come a long way and one less spoke...happy driving

 

[IG_in_AZ]

Those who have not driven this type of steering setup, that would be most of the reviewers, will initially have the feeling of weightlessness or vagueness as they say at some stage on a hard surfaced road, usually when cruising in a straight line you may not feel that directness...we adapt very quickly and it will not bother you...it also has the ability to take the shock out of potholes as you will find off road, it does not want to ripe the wheel out of your hands...yesteryear we drove with our thumbs on the outside of the steering wheel off road to save having them twisted up by rucks that would straighten your wheels and rip the steering wheel smashing your thumbs with the spokes...I still by habit drive that way...the Ineos Grenadier has come a long way and one less spoke...happy driving

I, too was taught to keep my thumbs outside the wheel when driving offroad, to keep my thumbs properly aligned and joints intact. This was in the USBP driving course at the academy and later throughout the FTO program. It doesn't take but once to hit a hole wrong and have the steering wheel rip 90* and you realize the "why".

 

[DenisM]

Note to all new "test drivers'

Prototype: "An early sample or model built to test a concept or process"
You have had the privilege of driving a pre-production engineering test bed, an experience you will NEVER get with probably any other manufacturer!!
It's an extensive 'work in progress...."
Wait for the final production version!!

 

[bigleonski]

I drove one as well today - very capable. I am concerned with many journalists who have been very supportive of the vehicle are noting that the 'on road' steering is truly aweful - no feel, 4-6 inches of play in the steering wheel, and vague non-confidence performance. That is concerning - I'm carefully looking at every reviewers road thoughts at this point. Off road is one thing - but since most of us drive to off road it sounds as though it needs some attention.

I’d love to see a review as bad as you note above.
Some have had negative comments (in comparison to more road orientated suv’s) but nothing as bad as you state by any stretch.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Note to all new "test drivers'

Prototype: "An early sample or model built to test a concept or process"
You have had the privilege of driving a pre-production engineering test bed, an experience you will NEVER get with probably any other manufacturer!!
It's an extensive 'work in progress...."
Wait for the final production version!!

Thank you, I was just mumbling this under my breath after reading some questions and comments.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

Those who have not driven this type of steering setup, that would be most of the reviewers, will initially have the feeling of weightlessness or vagueness as they say at some stage on a hard surfaced road, usually when cruising in a straight line you may not feel that directness...we adapt very quickly and it will not bother you...it also has the ability to take the shock out of potholes as you will find off road, it does not want to ripe the wheel out of your hands...yesteryear we drove with our thumbs on the outside of the steering wheel off road to save having them twisted up by rucks that would straighten your wheels and rip the steering wheel smashing your thumbs with the spokes...I still by habit drive that way...the Ineos Grenadier has come a long way and one less spoke...happy driving

I would expect there to be a better aftermarket option for rebuilding the steering gearbox if it's that bad. That said, it shouldn't have that much play. I just replaced mine on my truck and it had that much slop, but only because it was worn out to hell. If anyone can take pictures of it and how accessible it is, it would be appreciated.

 

[BD1]

@Stu_Barnes Stu - would love to see your observations from your test drive. Drive? Exterior? Interior? etc.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Part 1.

I just want to say a big thank you to INEOS for hosting this and the other events and letting the public drive pre production vehicles, warts and all. It's an example of how confident they are of the vehicles capability and its very well received all round


Underbody protection.

The test vehicles had this fitted throughout their shake down. the protection used was not production ready and has been removed from the vehicles I saw and is not fitted to the production models. However there is a protection 'pack' (my words) in development hopefully sometime later this year. I had a good look at the ABS filter pan for the gearbox and although its exposed, its pretty well tucked up above its chassis crossmember. The locking diff version gets some extra or modified front bell housing protection as I understand it, this will be answered pretty quickly by the community with vehicles ready to be collected.



Cad IT system.

This is not ready to be rolled out yet, however it is being worked on for direct customer use. This open source is happening, as IA intended from very early on in the project and they are committed to seeing it through. When pressed to the extent of the content, ie. covering the engine and gearbox for instance then there was less specificity. All I can say is fingers crossed. I pointed out that the bootleggers on eBay will put the documentation out there pretty soon after delivery and it would be best to have the correct information in the public domain as opposed to potentially incorrect or misleading documentation and this point was accepted and understood.


Steering.

After driving the Grenadier I thought that the steering was well weighted for off-road use, there was no kick back of the wheel and I'm sure that for extended periods fatigue levels will be low. The steering wheel is smaller than I was expecting or remember but seemed pretty well suited for the application, it's chunky enough to really grip when necessary while not being cumbersome. The 2 spoke design to my eyes worked better than a 3 spoke, there's a clear designation of the 12 o'clock position to indicate its relative wheel position. The lack of self centering will take some getting used to but didn't strike me as a major item, only on road use can put this to rest for sure I think. We only got up to about 30mph on gravel/dirt roads so couldn't really test for the high speed wandering and correction that the journalists were referring to.


The BMW gearshift.

Although not ideal, I think this is something that will very quickly become increasingly a non issue in its usage, looks wise it isn't the best to my eye, but it blends pretty well with the rest of the controls and once in drive I hardly noticed it. The sizing is good to my taste and is larger than the comparable Land Rover gearshift.


Fit and finish.

This I think is the thing surprised me the most. There was not a rattle or squeak from the interior on these vehicles that had been part of the shake down testing. I didn't see how many miles they had covered but the overall fit and finish, was very good. Some of the materials had been 3d printed in these vehicles and weren't production ready, as such the thickness of the plastic panels and their texture is 'off' compared to the intended finished product. particularly in the rear and boot/cargo area. Rattles and squeaks were impressively absent.


Seating.

The Recaros are comfortable and supportive and look just right, we only sat in the leather optioned ones. I've no doubt that after a long drive I won't be feeling undue fatigue from the seating. Thank you IA for going the way of the 'stadium' seating as Land Rover call it, yes I know that there's only so much space to fit everything under the tub etc, but they got the proportions right for the rear passengers (at least adults) to have a great view of everything thats going on when in the vehicle. The rear seats also were almost as comfortable as the front, I specifically sat in the 'middle child' seat and there was not the feeling of the rear bench being a 2 seater plus a 3/4 dickie seat as some vehicles have.


Powertrain.

The petrol engine felt more than capable enough for this vehicle. Wish I had driven a diesel as well but it's North America and devil juice is not on the cards for this market. Anyway, I tried my best in 4 low to make the engine labour and it wouldn't, yes it was in low range but with the gradients we drove over I was impressed with the work IA and BMW have put into the power and torque delivery for this application. I was told that the petrol engine had the benefit of the 'Toyotafication' of the BMW unit after they sent it back 40+ times for tweaking until they were happy while developing the Supra. The IA staff seemed pretty happy about this so I only hope it will prove itself in the field, it seemed a strange thing to bring up so I'm thinking there may be more meat than smoke and mirrors to this statement.

The gearbox seems very well mated with regards to its gearing. In off-road mode this thing holds the gear a very, very long time, moving up and down the gears is as seamless and as slick as the ZF box is in other applications. This gearbox is adaptive and trims shifting patterns to the average driving style, it takes time for this to dial in but as I understand it this feature has been retained for the Grenadier.

Exhaust note, this is really good to my ears, and on a cold start there's a good rasp on high idle and doesn't seem to be augmented by the Grenadiers audio system. I know this is a subjective thing, but for me it's an important part of the visceral experience of driving.