Unused electrical connector (rear right)

[Mr. Largo WINCH]

Bonjour et merci de la réponse.
Je dispose de l'option "Treuil Avant" et la mise à jour du logiciel a été faite avant la livraison de la voiture le 20 septembre dernier (SW0000000364001946).
Malgré cela, moteur en route et interrupteur EXT4 (500 A) sur ON, la prise OTAN arrière n'est pas alimentée.
Je vais essayer de mettre en place votre solution n°2 en raccordant le fil jaune présent sous la banquette Arrière, à la place du fil vert de commande du solénoide Albright

Merci pour votre aide.

 

[Eric]

Bonjour et merci de la réponse.
Je dispose de l'option "Treuil Avant" et la mise à jour du logiciel a été faite avant la livraison de la voiture le 20 septembre dernier (SW0000000364001946).
Malgré cela, moteur en route et interrupteur EXT4 (500 A) sur ON, la prise OTAN arrière n'est pas alimentée.
Je vais essayer de mettre en place votre solution n°2 en raccordant le fil jaune présent sous la banquette Arrière, à la place du fil vert de commande du solénoide Albright

Merci pour votre aide.

View attachment 7829366

View attachment 7829364
View attachment 7829365

On a completely separate issue @LARGO "WINCH" I noted your comment the software was updated before delivery on the 20th September. Can you please clarify was this update done by the dealer at PDI or was it supplied to the dealer direct from IA with the updated software. I asked because 2 weeks ago my dealer was receiving vehicles that still needed the software update.

 

[Clark Kent]

If you do have the front winch you may not need to do a temporary workaround. There are operating conditions that must be met to activate the front winch and NATO Socket, like transmission in park or neutral? Search the forum for NATO Socket and you should find the information you need, or someone with a working winch and NATO Socket please comment.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Hi. Sorry, I can only respond in English .

No power at the NATO socket is a known fault if you do not have the front winch option on your vehicle. This may be fixed in the current software update to version 1946. I'm not sure about that though.
While you're waiting for a fix from Ineos you have two choices to get power to the NATO Socket:

1. Move the large red cable from the right terminal of the relay (called an Albright solenoid) to the left terminal so both red cables are stacked onto the left terminal. This will bypass the Albright solenoid so the NATO socket is live all the time. There is no risk of draining your battery unless you leave a load plugged in for a long time and the engine is not running. Disconnect your battery or batteries before doing this because the left solenoid terminal is live as you have measured.

2. Follow these instructions to connect an ignition switched 12v signal to the Albright solenoid so it closes whenever the ignition is ON. This method uses the spare 'compressor' wires under the back seat to activate the solenoid by putting 12v onto the spade terminal to close the solenoid. This is the method I have used temporarily. Extend the yellow ignition switched wire and connect it to the spade terminal in place of the green wire. Leave the green wire unplugged.

Today I tested if I had indeed power on the NATO plug. I didn't really doubt, because I tested the cable going to the plug yesterday.
You should remember that:

1. I have the winch
2. motor should be running, gear in neutral
3. switch EXT4 on (you hear a clear loud "click" from the Albright relay)

But, what worries me and surprised me: when unscrewing the cap of the NATO plug, quite some drops of water came out of it!

I did not go swimming with my car and it almost didn't rain the last days!
It clearly sips in from somewhere in the back of the NATO plug! Damaged grommet?

I really didn't expect this!
Therefore (@Clark Kent) , before somebody makes the NATO plug live all time, check if there is no water ingress like in my case, otherwise you will have a nice short circuit and fuses blown!
Some new problem to mention to my dealer

 

[Jean Mercier]

If you do have the front winch you may not need to do a temporary workaround. There are operating conditions that must be met to activate the front winch and NATO Socket, like transmission in park or neutral? Search the forum for NATO Socket and you should find the information you need, or someone with a working winch and NATO Socket please comment.

Did not see your answer above before posting, but you are right, a temporary work around shouldn't be necessary.

In my case, my winch works (I tested it some months ago), and the NATO plug works.

Therefore @LARGO "WINCH" , or something is wrong, or you forgot something.

[EDITED]
@LARGO "WINCH"
You can test if it is the Albright relay or not by doing the following:

1. put a multimeter between the green and the black wire and measure the voltage when switching EXT4 (motor running!)
2. If you have voltage the relay isn't working, or bad contacts of the connectors
3. No voltage: perhaps a blown fuse

I think you can find which fuse it is in the @DCPU documentation, but I am not sure

 

[ninetubes]

I have run the two aux power wires from the LHS footwell to the Albright, which is now switchable via “INT 2”

 

[Eric]

Today I tested if I had indeed power on the NATO plug. I didn't really doubt, because I tested the cable going to the plug yesterday.
You should remember that:

1. I have the winch
2. motor should be running, gear in neutral
3. switch EXT4 on (you hear a clear loud "click" from the Albright relay)

View attachment 7829396

But, what worries me and surprised me: when unscrewing the cap of the NATO plug, quite some drops of water came out of it!
View attachment 7829397

I did not go swimming with my car and it almost didn't rain the last days!
It clearly sips in from somewhere in the back of the NATO plug! Damaged grommet?

I really didn't expect this!
Therefore (@Clark Kent) , before somebody makes the NATO plug live all time, check if there is no water ingress like in my case, otherwise you will have a nice short circuit and fuses blown!
Some new problem to mention to my dealer

Too much to be condensation?

 

[Jean Mercier]

Too much to be condensation?

Yes I guess so, but not sure!

 

[CountyV8]

Yes I guess so, but not sure!

Hi Jean if you put the car into carwash mode the NATO plug and the winch will run with the engine off regardless of software version

 

[Jean Mercier]

Hi Jean if you put the car into carwash mode the NATO plug and the winch will run with the engine off regardless of software version

While I was testing, I was trying to remember how I could indeed switch the motor off and get them powered, but my memory didn't work
Thanks for remembering me the trick!
Now I will have to remember how I put the car in car wash mode, as I never go to the car wash
But I have the explanation in my car

 

[Clark Kent]

Today I tested if I had indeed power on the NATO plug. I didn't really doubt, because I tested the cable going to the plug yesterday.
You should remember that:

1. I have the winch
2. motor should be running, gear in neutral
3. switch EXT4 on (you hear a clear loud "click" from the Albright relay)

View attachment 7829396

But, what worries me and surprised me: when unscrewing the cap of the NATO plug, quite some drops of water came out of it!
View attachment 7829397

I did not go swimming with my car and it almost didn't rain the last days!
It clearly sips in from somewhere in the back of the NATO plug! Damaged grommet?

I really didn't expect this!
Therefore (@Clark Kent) , before somebody makes the NATO plug live all time, check if there is no water ingress like in my case, otherwise you will have a nice short circuit and fuses blown!
Some new problem to mention to my dealer

Well if anyone's vehicle was going to be the exception it was going to be yours Jean!. You seem to have one destined to become a training aid one day!

In the Australian market we use a live Anderson plug for this purpose. They don't have a watertight cover. A dust cover is the best it gets. I have not heard of any instances where a fuse has blown because the live plug got wet. Might your cap have been loose and allowed some water through? The cap has a neoprene seal but it's thin and relies on compression from the cap threads to seal properly.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Well if anyone's vehicle was going to be the exception it was going to be yours Jean!. You seem to have one destined to become a training aid one day!

In the Australian market we use a live Anderson plug for this purpose. They don't have a watertight cover. A dust cover is the best it gets. I have not heard of any instances where a fuse has blown because the live plug got wet. Might your cap have been loose and allowed some water through? The cap has a neoprene seal but it's thin and relies on compression from the cap threads to seal properly.

Well there are several factors:

1. I am a very early owner
2. I have more than 15000 km on the counter
3. I check bit by bit everything (how many people checked the NATO plug? Most don't need it, neither me, and the "trailing" Australians are often indeed in quite dry zones - I have been in your lovely country)
4. I did some "off road" (I have quite some scratches as a proof)
5. And I am an engineer, retired, electronic engineer, but still interested in technology

I don't believe I have bad luck, I think the kilometers I drove, the early car I had, my "autistic interest" and my dealer who doesn't often believe me (and sometimes I can be wrong) are the cause of my many problems

 

[DaveB]

Well if anyone's vehicle was going to be the exception it was going to be yours Jean!. You seem to have one destined to become a training aid one day!

In the Australian market we use a live Anderson plug for this purpose. They don't have a watertight cover. A dust cover is the best it gets. I have not heard of any instances where a fuse has blown because the live plug got wet. Might your cap have been loose and allowed some water through? The cap has a neoprene seal but it's thin and relies on compression from the cap threads to seal properly.

A live anderson plug driven through a creek with nothing plugged in runs a real good chance of shorting out.
I have never understood why Anderson plugs have been used for this application.
Also................
Anderson plugs should not be used to break a circuit that is under load.
So no current should be running when unplugged or being plugged in.

 

[Clark Kent]

A live anderson plug driven through a creek with nothing plugged in runs a real good chance of shorting out.
I have never understood why Anderson plugs have been used for this application.
Also................
Anderson plugs should not be used to break a circuit that is under load.
So no current should be running when unplugged or being plugged in.


View attachment 7829434

The theory is sound, water is a conductor, etc. But if it was such a liability then auto elecs and the 4wd aftermarket industry wouldn't put them on a live circuit. Battery > Fuse > Anderson > Earth. I have never heard of anyone needing to replace the fuse after a water crossing that was deep enough to wet the plug. Or after washing their vehicle. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I would consider it plausible but improbable.

 

[DaveB]

The theory is sound, water is a conductor, etc. But if it was such a liability then auto elecs and the 4wd aftermarket industry wouldn't put them on a live circuit. Battery > Fuse > Anderson > Earth. I have never heard of anyone needing to replace the fuse after a water crossing that was deep enough to wet the plug. Or after washing their vehicle. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I would consider it plausible but improbable.

As long as it had something plugged into it, or the dust cover was on crossing water would be ok, particularly considering most water crossings really aren't more than 300-400mm anyway.
If you stopped in water with the socket open and live then the water would short from active to ground.
If the fuse doesn't blow under those circumstances then the fuse is useless, or the circuit has an auto disconnect in it somewhere.

 

[NQ94]

A live anderson plug driven through a creek with nothing plugged in runs a real good chance of shorting out.
I have never understood why Anderson plugs have been used for this application.
Also................
Anderson plugs should not be used to break a circuit that is under load.
So no current should be running when unplugged or being plugged in.


View attachment 7829434

No different to submerging a battery, starter motor or winch in a creek crossing or hosing them clean. None of the terminals are fully sealed from water on most battery cables.

 

[DaveB]

No different to submerging a battery, starter motor or winch in a creek crossing or hosing them clean. None of the terminals are fully sealed from water on most battery cables.

Battery correct which is why they are mounted high if you submerge your battery completely under water for more than just a splash or two the +ve terminal will short to earth.
Starter motor terminals are only live when you are cranking the starter motor, so not a problem when engine running
Winch terminals are only live when the winch is turned on.
This is the reason for so many fuses and fused links.

 

[NQ94]

Battery correct which is why they are mounted high if you submerge your battery completely under water for more than just a splash or two the +ve terminal will short to earth.
Starter motor terminals are only live when you are cranking the starter motor, so not a problem when engine running
Winch terminals are only live when the winch is turned on.
This is the reason for so many fuses and fused links.

Most starters have a contant power supply, many unfused, to the positive terminal on the solenoid mounted to the starter motor and a ground cable less then an inch away. The starter is switched with a low current signal votage, ie how a relay works. How many winches have an unfused battery cable with no isolator connected to a solenoid pack directly mounted to the winch? Lots of utes and trucks have batteries mounted low on the chassis that don't fail after a creek crossing or being washed with a fire hose. A person has more of a chance hydro-locking an engine then shorting out a battery when submerged in water.

 

[frankkk]

Today I tested if I had indeed power on the NATO plug. I didn't really doubt, because I tested the cable going to the plug yesterday.
You should remember that:

1. I have the winch
2. motor should be running, gear in neutral
3. switch EXT4 on (you hear a clear loud "click" from the Albright relay)

View attachment 7829396

But, what worries me and surprised me: when unscrewing the cap of the NATO plug, quite some drops of water came out of it!
View attachment 7829397

I did not go swimming with my car and it almost didn't rain the last days!
It clearly sips in from somewhere in the back of the NATO plug! Damaged grommet?

I really didn't expect this!
Therefore (@Clark Kent) , before somebody makes the NATO plug live all time, check if there is no water ingress like in my case, otherwise you will have a nice short circuit and fuses blown!
Some new problem to mention to my dealer

Hi Jean, the water is not a problem, it's normal. Works for militaries all over the world and has for me for 20 years. If you don't like it or you are not using the plug regularly, grease the socket generously, degrease before you are going to the desert..

 

[DaveB]

Most starters have a contant power supply, many unfused, to the positive terminal on the solenoid mounted to the starter motor and a ground cable less then an inch away. The starter is switched with a low current signal votage, ie how a relay works. How many winches have an unfused battery cable with no isolator connected to a solenoid pack directly mounted to the winch? Lots of utes and trucks have batteries mounted low on the chassis that don't fail after a creek crossing or being washed with a fire hose. A person has more of a chance hydro-locking an engine then shorting out a battery when submerged in water.

My knowledge of how electricity works is somewhat limited.