Top Gear: Grenadier vs G Wagon vs Defender vs LC

[lightning]

l've never heard of a CV joint failing on a new Defender.
Maybe for extreme use you'd be better with an lneos Grenadier or Jeep Wrangler both of which are live axle vehicles and a fair bit tougher.

 

[mcdoogs]

I also never heard of a broken CV joint on a Defender, neither in online communities or in real life meet ups. I certainly never had a problem like that in a few thousand offroad miles. It’s not really intended to be a hardcore rock crawling platform (nor is the grenadier).

 

[lightning]

l think the Grenadier is definitely more "hardcore" than the Defender though. (and l own a Defender)

The Defender is a road optimised vehicle that's competent off road.
The Grenadier is an off road optimised vehicle that's okay on the tarmac.

 

[Steve.B]

In Australia Carsales.com.au has its own jurno's for car reviewing and testing, and they just reviewed the $101,000 on road Toyota 250 Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser 250 had to be flat bed towed back to the Toyota dealer at the end of the review with complete electrical failure.
Evidently Toyota still can't make an air cleaner that seals against dust or water, as Toyota told the journalist that the failure was due to water ingress in to the air box, and the Land Cruiser only went through a few puddles, so not even scratching the surface of what Ineos let the Jurno's drive the Grenadier's through day after day in the Scottish press release.
It would be very expensive recovering the Land Cruiser from some of the more remote areas in Australia, so stay away from puddles while travelling in remote areas Land Cruiser 250 owners.
But one thing you can be assured off is Toyota sycophants will keep buying them, and they will still think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Clark Kent]

In Australia Carsales.com.au has its own jurno's for car reviewing and testing, and they just reviewed the $101,000 on road Toyota 250 Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser 250 had to be flat bed towed back to the Toyota dealer at the end of the review with complete electrical failure.
Evidently Toyota still can't make an air cleaner that seals against dust or water, as Toyota told the journalist that the failure was due to water ingress in to the air box, and the Land Cruiser only went through a few puddles, so not even scratching the surface of what Ineos let the Jurno's drive the Grenadier's through day after day in the Scottish press release.
It would be very expensive recovering the Land Cruiser from some of the more remote areas in Australia, so stay away from puddles while travelling in remote areas Land Cruiser 250 owners.
But one thing you can be assured off is Toyota sycophants will keep buying them, and they will still think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

That's disappointing. I wonder did the water enter through a low intake or directly into the airbox due to inadequate sealing?
I'm sure the 2% of owners who will take their LC250 into remote areas will be paying attention. The other 98% just need to be careful at the car wash.

 

[NQ94]

In Australia Carsales.com.au has its own jurno's for car reviewing and testing, and they just reviewed the $101,000 on road Toyota 250 Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser 250 had to be flat bed towed back to the Toyota dealer at the end of the review with complete electrical failure.
Evidently Toyota still can't make an air cleaner that seals against dust or water, as Toyota told the journalist that the failure was due to water ingress in to the air box, and the Land Cruiser only went through a few puddles, so not even scratching the surface of what Ineos let the Jurno's drive the Grenadier's through day after day in the Scottish press release.
It would be very expensive recovering the Land Cruiser from some of the more remote areas in Australia, so stay away from puddles while travelling in remote areas Land Cruiser 250 owners.
But one thing you can be assured off is Toyota sycophants will keep buying them, and they will still think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Other reports are saying water entered the electrical system through the 48V alternator.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

In Australia Carsales.com.au has its own jurno's for car reviewing and testing, and they just reviewed the $101,000 on road Toyota 250 Land Cruiser Prado.
The Land Cruiser 250 had to be flat bed towed back to the Toyota dealer at the end of the review with complete electrical failure.
Evidently Toyota still can't make an air cleaner that seals against dust or water, as Toyota told the journalist that the failure was due to water ingress in to the air box, and the Land Cruiser only went through a few puddles, so not even scratching the surface of what Ineos let the Jurno's drive the Grenadier's through day after day in the Scottish press release.
It would be very expensive recovering the Land Cruiser from some of the more remote areas in Australia, so stay away from puddles while travelling in remote areas Land Cruiser 250 owners.
But one thing you can be assured off is Toyota sycophants will keep buying them, and they will still think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

To be fair - it’s a very positive review- “super capable off-road, it’s a monster, easy to live with on a day to day basis, sets a new benchmark, etc.” This was my second choice behind the Grenadier - was working with the dealer as soon as the press launch on how to get a First Edition. I actually think the Lexus GX 550 Overtrail+ makes more sense for the money (and it’s a 6 cylinder) - the problem being “then you would be driving a Lexus.” They made their design choices and picked their core target customer - it’s like walking around with a sign that says “pervert.”

View: https://youtu.be/QfATkY6jMtM?si=uhEZL27dK3bLXZWn

 

[mcdoogs]

To be fair - it’s a very positive review- “super capable off-road, it’s a monster, easy to live with on a day to day basis, sets a new benchmark, etc.” This was my second choice behind the Grenadier - was working with the dealer as soon as the press launch on how to get a First Edition. I actually think the Lexus GX 550 Overtrail+ makes more sense for the money (and it’s a 6 cylinder) - the problem being “then you would be driving a Lexus.” They made their design choices and picked their core target customer - it’s like walking around with a sign that says “pervert.”

I'm absolutely biased, but to me the GX is both uglier and worse on road and off road whilst being less luxurious than the Defender which it directly competes with. The LC is at least significantly less expensive than either.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I'm absolutely biased, but to me the GX is both uglier and worse on road and off road whilst being less luxurious than the Defender which it directly competes with. The LC is at least significantly less expensive than either.

You would be surprised if you ran the numbers - do a LC config with leather and all the poshy bits. Just a moment ago I checked - LC w contrast roof, premium package, predator steps and skid plates $70,625. I asked my dealer re markup - $10k. Then obviously you have to get decent tires - so you are at about $82k - without a lift, rack, or any other accessories. Lexus GX Premium+ with cold weather package - $69,450. Add in a dealer premium (it’s actually not as bad for that configuration- like $5k) - and it is, shockingly, less, but more capable. It does look horrible - the Lexus “look at us, urbanites, please think of us as edgy and blingy” front grill will screw up the look, no matter how you try to disguise it.

 

[DFW Guy]

I wouldn't touch a new Toyota until they resolve their QC issues with their engines: https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...022-2023-toyota-tundra-and-lexus-lx-vehicles/

Imagine buying an $80K car only to have the engine explode at 800 miles and then having to fight them for a replacement. Even if you catch it before it turns catastrophic, they're only doing short block replacements with visual inspections of the internals. Youtube is filled with dozens of horror stories of engines breaking, repairs done haphazardly, etc. They've also replaced their 6 cylinder on their Tacomas with a new and underpowered turbo 4. Nothing says quality like having to run at 2,500rpms with a screaming turbo to maintain highway speeds.

Regarding the G-Wagon, I have a friend who has the redesigned 2025 AMG and there's a critical design flaw in the from grill. Apparently there's ZERO mesh between you, the road, and the radiator grill. One hard hit/rock in the wrong place and you're replacing your entire radiator. You can see it yourself here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aVR_KS3pq9A/maxresdefault.jpg

I would pick an annoying ticking noise when I'm speeding over a knocking engine at 800 miles any day of the week.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I wouldn't touch a new Toyota until they resolve their QC issues with their engines: https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...022-2023-toyota-tundra-and-lexus-lx-vehicles/

Imagine buying an $80K car only to have the engine explode at 800 miles and then having to fight them for a replacement. Even if you catch it before it turns catastrophic, they're only doing short block replacements with visual inspections of the internals. Youtube is filled with dozens of horror stories of engines breaking, repairs done haphazardly, etc. They've also replaced their 6 cylinder on their Tacomas with a new and underpowered turbo 4. Nothing says quality like having to run at 2,500rpms with a screaming turbo to maintain highway speeds.

Regarding the G-Wagon, I have a friend who has the redesigned 2025 AMG and there's a critical design flaw in the from grill. Apparently there's ZERO mesh between you, the road, and the radiator grill. One hard hit/rock in the wrong place and you're replacing your entire radiator. You can see it yourself here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aVR_KS3pq9A/maxresdefault.jpg

I would pick an annoying ticking noise when I'm speeding over a knocking engine at 800 miles any day of the week.

I love the Toyota fan comments - “I have 400k miles on my 200 - until then I will never buy a Grenadier.” They completely ignored the QC issues or the fact that ALL powertrains from Toyota are now flipped. That old naturally aspirated 6 they love so much is GONE! I bought my son a Taco TRD Off-Road right before the engine flip, just for that reason. It will last him forever - but Toyota can’t live off the old claims. They have to earn their stripes - same as Ineos.

 

[DFW Guy]

What's funny is Lexus and Toyotas were so reliable because of their "dumb" engine and electronics. The moment they entered the world of real premium luxury, IE: Airmatic suspension, dynamic lighting, etc is the moment they started having ALL the same problems as your average BMW, Mercedes, etc ONLY they don't have 15 years of experience and part reserves to maintain the transition. Lexus and Toyota have also gotten into the habit of putting small engines in big cars while hoping the turbos compensate for the smaller block. All that you end up with is the same story you have with Ford and their Eco-Boost engines.

It's the same story with the Dodge's Cummins engines pre-2008. They lasted FOREVER but the moment they introduced the EGR valve/Dynamic tuning for emissions by checking catalytic converter overload, you ended up with a lot of dead engines sub 60K miles.

You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to understand that pushing a smaller engine harder for better city MPG (which if you look at the actual data isn't any different than Toyotas bigger engines. Tacoma 2022 is 20/23 vs 2025 21/26) isn't worth the turbo whine and shorter lifespan. If you want a new Toyota Tacoma, just go pick up a Nissan Frontier. Naturally aspirated V6 and it's bulletproof. Our delivery fleet is/was Nissan NV 2500 with the same engine. Some of which have 350K miles on them. Shame they scrapped their cargo vans to make electric vehicles.

I love the Toyota fan comments - “I have 400k miles on my 200 - until then I will never buy a Grenadier.” They completely ignored the QC issues or the fact that ALL powertrains from Toyota are now flipped. That old naturally aspirated 6 they love so much is GONE! I bought my son a Taco TRD Off-Road right before the engine flip, just for that reason. It will last him forever - but Toyota can’t live off the old claims. They have to earn their stripes - same as Ineos.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

What's funny is Lexus and Toyotas were so reliable because of their "dumb" engine and electronics. The moment they entered the world of real premium luxury, IE: Airmatic suspension, dynamic lighting, etc is the moment they started having ALL the same problems as your average BMW, Mercedes, etc ONLY they don't have 15 years of experience and part reserves to maintain the transition. Lexus and Toyota have also gotten into the habit of putting small engines in big cars while hoping the turbos compensate for the smaller block. All that you end up with is the same story you have with Ford and their Eco-Boost engines.

It's the same story with the Dodge's Cummins engines pre-2008. They lasted FOREVER but the moment they introduced the EGR valve/Dynamic tuning for emissions by checking catalytic converter overload, you ended up with a lot of dead engines sub 60K miles.

You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to understand that pushing a smaller engine harder for better city MPG (which if you look at the actual data isn't any different than Toyotas bigger engines. Tacoma 2022 is 20/23 vs 2025 21/26) isn't worth the turbo whine and shorter lifespan. If you want a new Toyota Tacoma, just go pick up a Nissan Frontier. Naturally aspirated V6 and it's bulletproof. Our delivery fleet is/was Nissan NV 2500 with the same engine. Some of which have 350K miles on them. Shame they scrapped their cargo vans to make electric vehicles.

It ain’t the old Hilux, that’s for sure. Continuing to ponder the vast profundity of Hunt for the Wilderpeople, I realize @Stu_Barnes, I have the motto for the Grenadier community - “I didn’t choose the skux life . . . the skux life chose me.”

View: https://youtu.be/POhxv-_775E?si=DrIxh5A-xhko91CC

 

[CrazyOldMan]

It ain’t the old Hilux, that’s for sure. Continuing to ponder the vast profundity of Hunt for the Wilderpeople, I realize @Stu_Barnes, I have the motto for the Grenadier community - “I didn’t choose the skux life . . . the skux life chose me.”

View: https://youtu.be/POhxv-_775E?si=DrIxh5A-xhko91CC

And I’m going to have to ask the Kiwi’s on the forum to comment - those aren’t decommissioned military vehicles are they? So how does a director get your military to sign up for that? “It’s a movie about a kid and an old man on the run from Child Protective Services, and this is a chase scene with a Hilux.” “Mmmmmmm.” “The old guy is Sam Neill.” “Right, so do you need the WHOLE army or is half OK?”