Too many big cars

[klarie]

Well, as long as you can decide 100% for yourself, everything is fine. I lack the balance. Simply expressed, alone that I am on this world and walk, I influence - positively and negatively - this world. And freedom does not mean that I can do and let everything what I want. Freedom always means - easier or harder - a deviation. As soon as my freedom restricts the freedom of the other, it is no longer worth anything.

Briefly about vaccination (it is not the subject here, but the pattern is the same): I have decided for myself to be vaccinated. Does this have any restrictions for others? I think not. I am not a scientist and I do not have a highly equipped laboratory. So I have to consider for myself and include in my decision whether my decision has a negative influence on others. My mother - she has since passed away - last very demented and suffering from COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), would not have survived a COVID infection. So the strategy was to minimize the likelihood of infection and that included vaccination on my part or ours and deciding with my siblings to isolate them from the outside world as much as possible. That's all I'll say and write about it.

But to come back to the topic: If I drive 500 meters to the bakery with my combustion engine - no matter if SUV or small car - and park in front of the bakery with the engine running, then this may be my free decision, but it means a considerable negative influence on my environment. So my freedom is worth nothing.

Conversely, it is also not right to destroy or damage cars or to glue to a road. Those who do this can of course say that it is their own free choice, but does that make it right? It seems to be becoming the general consensus that treating symptoms solves all the world's problems. We used to say self-ironically that every German is a better chancellor, soccer coach (anyway) and judge by birth. Today, more and more actually believe that - quite unironically.

I guess the art of life is to realize that there is a very long way between paranoia and laissez-faire. I try to find the golden mean and also admit that I make mistakes. Only when I admit that I also make mistakes can I correct them.
My English is probably the best example of the fact that I am flawed and imperfect.

To vaxxing - I wrote in a previous post how I did calculate the risk vs gain on what is acceptable and what not.
If I would live in a high risk area where walking on street may incorporate mugging and robbery.. perhaps using the vehicle to the bakery is a good idea.

I think the film long a go "the gods must be crazy" - In South Africa with an empty Coca Cola Bottle thrown from a small aircraft.. There was a scene where some guy drove to a cigarette vending machine just a couple of yards away .. may be..
but as you mention politics.. again. what is the impact on environment in total numbers measurable. And if the same guys telling us you should go electric and go vegan and do this and do that.. but the very same people travel by private jet to one meeting and use expensive fuel consuming vehicles to meet instead of using MS Teams.. Some are more equal arent they ?
Once again - I give a damn. Do I really give a negative effect on the environment? Any molecules that are running to my engine are there since beginning of planet earth. Perhaps all molecules in my body were once part of a plant, fish, a T-Rex, a sabre tiger, an oak.. perhaps another human being. its just conversion of energy. If man vanishes - the planet will continue to exist .. and earth lived quite a long time before humans exist and will continue when we extinct.. and the molecules of my body and the grenadier will exist also in a different mixture & composition, (Philosophy) ..


Yeah we tend to be all better than or state leaders, coaches etc. However I do not participate in those group of regulars that meet in the pub for beer n darts. On the opposite I grew up with a quite bossy dad and he did not like my habit of questioning everything. I did run in a lot of conflict with my dad.
Today I make my life out of questioning and finding issues. Perhaps I should talk to Ineos in software testing... but my subject is rather regulatory stuff in a few industries and automotive is not my topic.

At the very end - I agree with you considering I am only human and hence I make mistakes and I am prone to error. But thats me.

 

[Norb-TX]

Any molecules that are running to my engine are there since beginning of planet earth. Perhaps all molecules in my body were once part of a plant, fish, a T-Rex, a sabre tiger, an oak.. perhaps another human being. its just conversion of energy.

Sure bro, just eat some poison, no worries, it's just molecules that's been here forever. lol.

 

[trobex]

View attachment 7822449
And it is not the forests that are dying, but the plantations. It is not only the destruction of natural forests that is causing problems, but - especially in Europe - a forestry industry that has gotten completely out of hand.

Come to Australia, we are one of the largest deforesters (by hectare) of native bush/forests in the world and we have less than 30M people. We are the only developed (OECD) nation to sit in a list with 3rd world countries for such blatant abuse of the land and ecosystem.

My one goal in life is to own and preserve 1000+ acres of untouched semi/rain forest in QLD/NSW and protect is via trust. I hope a few thousand others in my generation do the same - because our government is doing quite the opposite.

 

[trobex]

To vaxxing - I wrote in a previous post how I did calculate the risk vs gain on what is acceptable and what not.
If I would live in a high risk area where walking on street may incorporate mugging and robbery.. perhaps using the vehicle to the bakery is a good idea.

I think the film long a go "the gods must be crazy" - In South Africa with an empty Coca Cola Bottle thrown from a small aircraft.. There was a scene where some guy drove to a cigarette vending machine just a couple of yards away .. may be..
but as you mention politics.. again. what is the impact on environment in total numbers measurable. And if the same guys telling us you should go electric and go vegan and do this and do that.. but the very same people travel by private jet to one meeting and use expensive fuel consuming vehicles to meet instead of using MS Teams.. Some are more equal arent they ?
Once again - I give a damn. Do I really give a negative effect on the environment? Any molecules that are running to my engine are there since beginning of planet earth. Perhaps all molecules in my body were once part of a plant, fish, a T-Rex, a sabre tiger, an oak.. perhaps another human being. its just conversion of energy. If man vanishes - the planet will continue to exist .. and earth lived quite a long time before humans exist and will continue when we extinct.. and the molecules of my body and the grenadier will exist also in a different mixture & composition, (Philosophy) ..


Yeah we tend to be all better than or state leaders, coaches etc. However I do not participate in those group of regulars that meet in the pub for beer n darts. On the opposite I grew up with a quite bossy dad and he did not like my habit of questioning everything. I did run in a lot of conflict with my dad.
Today I make my life out of questioning and finding issues. Perhaps I should talk to Ineos in software testing... but my subject is rather regulatory stuff in a few industries and automotive is not my topic.

At the very end - I agree with you considering I am only human and hence I make mistakes and I am prone to error. But thats me.

You notice a lot of 40-50–60-year-old sport stars/celebrities are dying these last few months from heart attacks... all vaccinated from what I can see. Just saying. The news seems to have another hearth attack report every other day. Balanced.

 

[klarie]

Sure bro, just eat some poison, no worries, it's just molecules that's been here forever. lol.

It's what we do ever since. This is philosophical and does not belong to this thread.
We re all here because of an old school 4WD with conventional engine. So what. - I am sure the most of us here and own or get one have little intent to go with that in a downtown environment. But perhaps some day we have to, for what ever reason. Too many big cars out there? May be.. vehicles became bigger, sometimes because we gained a bit more size.
A first generation VW Golf was a lightweight vehicle with next to no electronics. The infamous GTI with 110 HP was a hefty vehicle and many young people died du to overestimating their abilities.
The Golf grew in Size and weight and in power... ABS, PowerWindows, Aircondition, Exhaust cleaning system, etc etc, each feature adds size, weight.
Sometimes even now required by law. - So what. Smallest cars now could be even smaller and more light weight if this stuff we hadn't in the past is taken away - same for the bigger sizes.-
Just the contrary.. Look at a Morgan 3 Wheeler. Simplistic. Seen only one in my life in real. Not everybodys taste of a vehicle.
BTW The same problem are in E-Vehicles due weight of battery pack.

 

[Tazzieman]

We re all here because of an old school 4WD with conventional engine.

And to be fair , it's not THAT big , compared to many 4wds

 

[Magical Mystery Tours]

My one goal in life is to own and preserve 1000+ acres of untouched semi/rain forest in QLD/NSW and protect is via trust. I hope a few thousand others in my generation do the same - because our government is doing quite the opposite.

We have planted about 40 trees so far after taking over our property (a modest 16 acres) 4 years ago and have let the outer edges go wild, they are only mowed to transition to winter. But we also live outside, without direct neighbors.

If you need help with reforestation, let me know.

 

[Magical Mystery Tours]

We re all here because of an old school 4WD with conventional engine.

There is nothing wrong with that either. "Built On Purpose" - "Use for Purpose". So if I'm constantly trying to drive my Grenadier like I drive a Lamborghini Countach (I'm calling it exaggerated now because I always thought it was beautiful), then it makes absolutely no sense. The problem is mostly the hypes that cause many to do something that is nonsense in its own sense. Then the scales tip. Hardly someone propagates, beef is bad for health, the herd buys like stupid poultry. Tomorrow then perhaps spider legs and crow liver are on vouge and the masses swing over. Today it is then vegan, but it should please look like meat and taste the same. The advertisement has there easy play and mixes powerfully with.

I can't imagine it, but let's play the game again: What do we do when the masses discover 5 ton tractors for themselves?

I chose the Grenadier because I can use it for what I have in mind. I'm also in favor of developing alternative drive systems. What ultimately powers my Grenadier is incidental. It has to be reliable and do what it's there for. Maybe if it's hydrogen at some point, then it's ok or maybe it's the Infinite Improbability Drive, who knows. I think a healthy mix of all has a future. And you can discuss this quite unemotionally, without pointing fingers at others and wanting to proselytize. If we all start driving electrically tomorrow - with today's technology - then we will also have a problem. Perhaps the problem simply lies in the fact that we have lost our creativity in favor of profit. As long as the order books are filled with combustion engines, I don't have to develop or invent anything else.

I much prefer the motto "Just do it, it could be good" to "We've always done it this way, so let's keep doing it". I love it exciting

 

[klarie]

There is nothing wrong with that either. "Built On Purpose" - "Use for Purpose". So if I'm constantly trying to drive my Grenadier like I drive a Lamborghini Countach (I'm calling it exaggerated now because I always thought it was beautiful), then it makes absolutely no sense. The problem is mostly the hypes that cause many to do something that is nonsense in its own sense. Then the scales tip. Hardly someone propagates, beef is bad for health, the herd buys like stupid poultry. Tomorrow then perhaps spider legs and crow liver are on vouge and the masses swing over. Today it is then vegan, but it should please look like meat and taste the same. The advertisement has there easy play and mixes powerfully with.

I can't imagine it, but let's play the game again: What do we do when the masses discover 5 ton tractors for themselves?

I chose the Grenadier because I can use it for what I have in mind. I'm also in favor of developing alternative drive systems. What ultimately powers my Grenadier is incidental. It has to be reliable and do what it's there for. Maybe if it's hydrogen at some point, then it's ok or maybe it's the Infinite Improbability Drive, who knows. I think a healthy mix of all has a future. And you can discuss this quite unemotionally, without pointing fingers at others and wanting to proselytize. If we all start driving electrically tomorrow - with today's technology - then we will also have a problem. Perhaps the problem simply lies in the fact that we have lost our creativity in favor of profit. As long as the order books are filled with combustion engines, I don't have to develop or invent anything else.

I much prefer the motto "Just do it, it could be good" to "We've always done it this way, so let's keep doing it". I love it exciting

Hm, I am mostly agree. - The problem of being disruptive. As long as the combustion engine fills my order book.. - I do not need to develop something else. I remember in photography.. classic film Kodak, and others.. then digital photography came up and world quickly changed. But NOT govenment enforced. The market itself became disruptive because there was something real better and more easy to use.
If there is a real better propulsion system than good old combustion engine.. and I did never tell anything against an electric motor.. btw -- the problem ist rather energy storage. So if a system is coming up that proves indeed better and is universal purpose the market will adapt. - But there is no need of forbidding usage of combustion engines, lead or other toxic substance. The problem of all this is not the competition of combustion engine vs electric one - but a government enforced activity and distortion. - E-Vehicles are considered as 0 Emission with is untrue. Even a wind generator during construction needs 1600 tons of concrete and so cement. What needs to be manufactured by burning natural gas etc..
No matter - there is no such thing as 0 emissions. - When is the break even of creating more energy of a wind generator to compensate the cost of creation, - after that compensate the cost of energy of creation of an e -vehicle. .. only after compensation of both you really do drive a 0 emission vehicle. If a vehicle with a propulsion system will be created that is most certainly better in comfort, maintenance, range, refuelling, infrastructure etc. .. environmentally and of course total cost of ownership.. then it will not need any regulation and government intervene.. it will establish by itself.
I read a couple of years ago a science fiction novel - someone invented portals / transporter like in StarTrek and roads aircraft and ship and quickly came out of use. But then something went wrong and a family became stranded in the middle of nowhere .. Interesting.. I am with you.. If there is something really better than a vehicle with a combustion engine and all the disadvantages of current energy storage of BEV disappear - I will consider.

The only system as of now - that is close of what I would consider as an alternative is a Methanol Direct Fuel Cell Vehicle.
Electric quietness, high performance, lower weight and relatively easy and safe to refuel... and existing infrastructure could be reused. Not there yet and perhaps speculative politically not wanted for general use.

 

[grenadierboy]

And to be fair , it's not THAT big , compared to many 4wds

That's right Tazzie - it's mid size in the US!

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

Hm, I am mostly agree. - The problem of being disruptive. As long as the combustion engine fills my order book.. - I do not need to develop something else. I remember in photography.. classic film Kodak, and others.. then digital photography came up and world quickly changed. But NOT govenment enforced. The market itself became disruptive because there was something real better and more easy to use.
If there is a real better propulsion system than good old combustion engine.. and I did never tell anything against an electric motor.. btw -- the problem ist rather energy storage. So if a system is coming up that proves indeed better and is universal purpose the market will adapt. - But there is no need of forbidding usage of combustion engines, lead or other toxic substance. The problem of all this is not the competition of combustion engine vs electric one - but a government enforced activity and distortion. - E-Vehicles are considered as 0 Emission with is untrue. Even a wind generator during construction needs 1600 tons of concrete and so cement. What needs to be manufactured by burning natural gas etc..
No matter - there is no such thing as 0 emissions. - When is the break even of creating more energy of a wind generator to compensate the cost of creation, - after that compensate the cost of energy of creation of an e -vehicle. .. only after compensation of both you really do drive a 0 emission vehicle. If a vehicle with a propulsion system will be created that is most certainly better in comfort, maintenance, range, refuelling, infrastructure etc. .. environmentally and of course total cost of ownership.. then it will not need any regulation and government intervene.. it will establish by itself.
I read a couple of years ago a science fiction novel - someone invented portals / transporter like in StarTrek and roads aircraft and ship and quickly came out of use. But then something went wrong and a family became stranded in the middle of nowhere .. Interesting.. I am with you.. If there is something really better than a vehicle with a combustion engine and all the disadvantages of current energy storage of BEV disappear - I will consider.

The only system as of now - that is close of what I would consider as an alternative is a Methanol Direct Fuel Cell Vehicle.
Electric quietness, high performance, lower weight and relatively easy and safe to refuel... and existing infrastructure could be reused. Not there yet and perhaps speculative politically not wanted for general use.

About 0 emissions of an electric car.... Depending on the source (and probably also the type of EV car) you have to drive between 300K to 700K KM to get him at 0 or Neutral..... Now, they want us to trow away the Euro 4, 5 and in less than 10 years the Euro 6 cars to buy an electric one. These cars won't disappear. they will be shipped to the East or Afrika and they will drive there (and burning fossil fuels) another 20 to 25 years... So, will this help Earths climate?
A big part of the society can't effort an electric car. Europe wants to be the best in the class, but at the cost of their own citizens.

Ps Nothing against electric cars or hybrids (Got myself a second hand BMW I3), but the way it goes now, is a bit fast. For some people and companies, a car is a fast moving consumer good. But not for the average family who has to drive perfectly ok second hand cars for another 10 years.

About the SUV's. Brussel wants to ban all SUV's. Ok, but what is an SUV? A Renault Scenic or Captur is also sold as an SUV.

 

[klarie]

@Voader - Oudersopzwier here are a lot of older EU class vehicles are still around. - Of course I cant go to Dortmund or Frankfurt or whatsoever "environmental zone" wtf. Seriously I do not have a reason to go there. If its for business I rent a car, call some transportation service or aircraft or other public transport. and put it on expenses. Dont have a company car anymore. - For what reason? They cant force me to use one. - not anymore. So there will be older cars out for a long time And then sooner or later the regulatory bodies get a lesson. Someone has to pay for this.. - Trying to milk a butchered cow .. wont work - not even for EU and EU governments.

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

@Voader - Oudersopzwier here are a lot of older EU class vehicles are still around. - Of course I cant go to Dortmund or Frankfurt or whatsoever "environmental zone" wtf. Seriously I do not have a reason to go there. If its for business I rent a car, call some transportation service or aircraft or other public transport. and put it on expenses. Dont have a company car anymore. - For what reason? They cant force me to use one. - not anymore. So there will be older cars out for a long time And then sooner or later the regulatory bodies get a lesson. Someone has to pay for this.. - Trying to milk a butchered cow .. wont work - not even for EU and EU governments.

Ofcours, there are other ways to go to the city. Or I use my BMW I3 or my Grenadier for appointments. But, I need to deliver my goods in those cities.... We are dealing in greenroof and roofgarden materials for landscaping. We are creating greener cities and deliver a lot of materials there. They desperately want our goods, but they don't like me towing a 3,5 ton trailer on my Defender. Now I do it with the Grenadier. They also don't like our Scania, because it blocks the road. It's too big and in 2028 we are not allowed anymore to deliver in Brussels because Euro 6 is banned. Delivering multiple 1 ton pallets on a bike or with the post services is a bit difficult. So, as a lot of entrepreneurs who now already suffer to work in the larger cities, we also will probably decline orders. And indeed, maybe in a certain time. they will hopefully understand that the cities can't live on fresh air only but that they also need an economy who has to deliver goods bigger than shoeboxes. But that will be after the elections I presume.
(And no, I am not planning to replace my Scania with an electric version. I still have approximately 10 years to go before I quite and sell my business. It's not worth the investment anymore)

 

[IGL]

Mining the Planet to Death: The Dirty Truth About Clean Technologies

The poor South is being exploited so that the rich North can transition to environmental sustainability. Entire swaths of land are being destroyed to secure the resources needed to produce wind turbines and solar cells. Are there alternatives?

www.spiegel.de

 

[klarie]

Ofcours, there are other ways to go to the city. Or I use my BMW I3 or my Grenadier for appointments. But, I need to deliver my goods in those cities.... We are dealing in greenroof and roofgarden materials for landscaping. We are creating greener cities and deliver a lot of materials there. They desperately want our goods, but they don't like me towing a 3,5 ton trailer on my Defender. Now I do it with the Grenadier. They also don't like our Scania, because it blocks the road. It's too big and in 2028 we are not allowed anymore to deliver in Brussels because Euro 6 is banned. Delivering multiple 1 ton pallets on a bike or with the post services is a bit difficult. So, as a lot of entrepreneurs who now already suffer to work in the larger cities, we also will probably decline orders. And indeed, maybe in a certain time. they will hopefully understand that the cities can't live on fresh air only but that they also need an economy who has to deliver goods bigger than shoeboxes. But that will be after the elections I presume.
(And no, I am not planning to replace my Scania with an electric version. I still have approximately 10 years to go before I quite and sell my business. It's not worth the investment anymore)

That is exacly what is happening here too. Many companies in the landscaping and greening area cant go downtown. A friend of mine has a master in Landscaping and Gardening.. Nope. He will not purchase a vehicle that is valid to get downtown - admission for high emission vehicle is expensive charged by the town but it is put on the bill and invoiced and calculated in to the offer / invoice to the very same town. Silly calculation for the town chamberlain charging money for admission but paying it at the invoice.

So causing more bureaucratic effort. There was a demo / campaign by craftsmens guild in 2019 showing carrying bricks in a wheelbarrow on the underground / shorthaul trains. to make people understand.
This was a campaign in Frankfurt

I understand.. and sometimes certain mayors and others learn only if they feel it personally..

 

[klarie]

Mining the Planet to Death: The Dirty Truth About Clean Technologies

The poor South is being exploited so that the rich North can transition to environmental sustainability. Entire swaths of land are being destroyed to secure the resources needed to produce wind turbines and solar cells. Are there alternatives?

www.spiegel.de

Exactly. Nothing more to add. Like any process - need to be considered from all directions, ankles, dimensions, positions....

 

[Tazzieman]

Slashers...coming to a city near you?

SUV Haters Film Themselves Slashing Tires In Response To Fatal Road Crash

An anti-SUV group that calls itself 'Tyre Extinguishers' has taken responsibility for slashing the tires of "at least 60 vehicles" at a Jaguar dealership in Exeter, England. The group's aim is to "make it impossible to own an SUV in the world's urban areas," claiming that this will improve the...

carbuzz.com

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/vigilantes-wreck-60-cars-at-dealership-in-retaliation-for-deaths-of-two-uk-schoolgirls-in-land-rover-smash/news-story/ae73a9cb0d1c2ff9d33934da902500cd

 

[klarie]

Hm.. one day the extinguisher may backfire. - just by trying to extinguish the wrong persons tyre. I could think of Remmo, Abu Chakr, Miri.. in Germany, but I assume elsewhere on the planet are similar families.. and the consequence of acting so may be hefty.

 

[Tazzieman]

Anybody here with a Toorak tractor?
One day these bellends will choose the wrong street and the wrong vehicle.

Dozens of car tyres deflated on wealthy street in the name of climate activism

www.9news.com.au

 

[klarie]

Anybody here with a Toorak tractor?
One day these bellends will choose the wrong street and the wrong vehicle.

Dozens of car tyres deflated on wealthy street in the name of climate activism

www.9news.com.au

This is just a Disco Sport, - same like mine - and a gas guzzler ?
- w. normal tyres / Not Offrad - just some 6.5 l D/100lm 36.1US MpG 46.4 Imperial I think that will end one day with a base ball bat.. and 24/7 dashcams-