Thoughts on 20"?

[IG_LA]

Other things to consider are unsprung weight and ride quality. Higher unsprung weight results in greater brake wear, weaker fuel economy, and slower acceleration. Lower sidewalls will also result in harsher ride for an already very stiff suspension. Would be much less of an issue if we had softer suspension.

I have 20s on my LC200 because my wife is the primary driver and she does a lot of highway driving. I made sure the wheel and tire combo was also slightly lower in weight than the stock 18s.

This comment is making me not consider 20"s. How'd you manage to get a lower weight if you had 20s?

 

[IG_LA]

Grenadier wheel rim sizes came up in discussion on two separate occasions I recall during the early prototype "drive" days...(remember them? ) On both occasions the engineering chaps in the (different) Ineos teams said that Ineos was initially considering 16" rims except for the fact that they would not accommodate the Brembo brake package. So, 17"and 18" it is. Certainly for availability in a wide variety of tread patterns, size and relative cost, in the Australian market at least, the 16" rim wins hands down. 17" is becoming better while 18" not so much...but improving.

Another reason why I should stay with 17-18"s.

So, 17" is the magic number for top overall performance!

 

[DenisM]

Another reason why I should stay with 17-18"s.

So, 17" is the magic number for top overall performance!

Depends on how you define "performance".
If I was using mine as a daily driver under motorway /highway conditions with occasional trips on graded gravel roads, I would have ordered 18" alloys with the Bridgestone A/T or even H/T tyres.... improved handling performance; better fuel economy and probably safer (to a degree) in wet weather.
As it is I opted for the Trialmaster with steel wheels, 17" K02 tyres because I wanted a 'desert taxi' .... trouble is, in Australia, if you live within 100km of the coast in any direction, you usually need to travel thousands of km on sealed roads to get to the deserts.... perhaps I need two sets of tyres -with the alternates stowed on a small trailer! (like I see 'boy racers' occasionally in their GT3 Porsches towing racing rubber behind their steeds to track days )

 

[IG_LA]

Depends on how you define "performance".
If I was using mine as a daily driver under motorway /highway conditions with occasional trips on graded gravel roads, I would have ordered 18" alloys with the Bridgestone A/T or even H/T tyres.... improved handling performance; better fuel economy and probably safer (to a degree) in wet weather.
As it is I opted for the Trialmaster with steel wheels, 17" K02 tyres because I wanted a 'desert taxi' .... trouble is, in Australia, if you live within 100km of the coast in any direction, you usually need to travel thousands of km on sealed roads to get to the deserts.... perhaps I need two sets of tyres -with the alternates stowed on a small trailer! (like I see 'boy racers' occasionally in their GT3 Porsches towing racing rubber behind their steeds to track days )

That's what I was hoping for initially, 18s by Kahn Design wheels but right now they're only offering 20s. I asked if they're going to carry them in 18s but they're either slow to respond or just don't care.

 

[AnD3rew]

I've scrubbed the entire forum and read through several posts, yet, no ongoing talks about the 20" rims. There was a mention once but only one response on it.

I'm not looking into wrapping them with 35in tires, looking more into 285/55r20 BFG KO2s which have a diameter of 32.3 in. Seeing that several people have already upgraded to 285/70r17 I've seen here, I assume no lifting is needed since 285/55r20 would be smaller?

I'm ready to purchase but I don't have enough information about whether it's the right choice or not. I understand the obvious why 17" is better than 20" but how big of a sacrifice to opt in for the 20"? Thoughts, opinions, and rants are much appreciated!

1) 285/55r20
2) 285/70r17

View attachment 7840747

If you intend to mall crawl then fine. If you intend sand or rock driving then don’t do it, you need the sidewall for airing down for extra traction, to protect your wheels and to make the ride more comfortable. I went 17”, 18” would be the maximum I would go if you intend to offroad

 

[Krabby]

This comment is making me not consider 20"s. How'd you manage to get a lower weight if you had 20s?

Best of both worlds:

 

[Chadd7]

This comment is making me not consider 20"s. How'd you manage to get a lower weight if you had 20s?

My stock wheels were extremely heavy. And I went with Michelin mud and snow rated highway tires.

 

[Mountain4x4]

20s are for street use only, insert Defender Meme. That being said, they also result in a worse ride. The bigger the rims the stiffer the sidewalls become. I even did some investigating into why our roads are getting more wash board then we have ever seen. And it turns out the rock hard little bling, bling tires on modern cross overs and electric cars are contributing according to a study I read as the bounce so hard.

 

[stickshifter]

I've scrubbed the entire forum and read through several posts, yet, no ongoing talks about the 20" rims. There was a mention once but only one response on it.

Hi OP,

As others have said, it all depends on how you intend to use your Grenadier.

The Grenadier has been designed as a vehicle that makes some on-road compromises in order to achieve better off-road performance and longevity of the running gear (axles, suspension, etc.). For example, the decision to use a Solid Front Axle (SFA), instead of Independent Front Suspension (IFS).

A 20-inch wheel with relatively low-profile tires (that means a tire with relatively little sidewall) will provide better on-road performance, but much worse off-road performance.

So the decision to buy a Grenadier and then mount 20-inch wheels seems contradictory in terms of one's goals (buying an off-road oriented vehicle and then mounting on-road oriented wheels). You can still do it, and you might notice some improvement in on-road handling (cornering especially), but the Grenadier will never handle like an SUV with IFS, so some will wonder: what's the point?

But there are some people who will buy the Grenadier for its looks, and who have no interest in taking it off-road; they may also prefer the looks of a 20-inch wheel. Folks can do whatever they want! We see something similar with many of the G-Wagens driving the streets of Los Angeles. The pre-2019 G-Wagens were built in very similar ways as the Grenadier - with some design decisions that prioritized off-road performance over on-road performance; a bunch of these were bought by people who liked the looks, and who put on big wheels with low-profile tires.

Just be aware that a 20-inch wheel with a low-profile tire will significantly degrade off-road performance. The following video has been posted previously on the forum, but I'll post it here again. In the video, The Fast Lane Truck (TFL) takes a new Defender off-road on a rocky trail. The Defender has relatively big wheels and low-profile tires. They suffer two tire failures because of the big wheel with the low-profile tire.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391AsASvmi8

 

[IG_LA]

These are all so helpful!

I get it, ones preference is different from the other. The intention of use vs what it was built for. Yet, there are people who turns around and choose look vs function. Each side has their own opinions, both are valid, regardless of who you ask.

Got much more perspective from all these comments.

 

[IG_LA]

Hi OP,

As others have said, it all depends on how you intend to use your Grenadier.

The Grenadier has been designed as a vehicle that makes some on-road compromises in order to achieve better off-road performance and longevity of the running gear (axles, suspension, etc.). For example, the decision to use a Solid Front Axle (SFA), instead of Independent Front Suspension (IFS).

A 20-inch wheel with relatively low-profile tires (that means a tire with relatively little sidewall) will provide better on-road performance, but much worse off-road performance.

So the decision to buy a Grenadier and then mount 20-inch wheels seems contradictory in terms of one's goals (buying an off-road oriented vehicle and then mounting on-road oriented wheels). You can still do it, and you might notice some improvement in on-road handling (cornering especially), but the Grenadier will never handle like an SUV with IFS, so some will wonder: what's the point?

But there are some people who will buy the Grenadier for its looks, and who have no interest in taking it off-road; they may also prefer the looks of a 20-inch wheel. Folks can do whatever they want! We see something similar with many of the G-Wagens driving the streets of Los Angeles. The pre-2019 G-Wagens were built in very similar ways as the Grenadier - with some design decisions that prioritized off-road performance over on-road performance; a bunch of these were bought by people who liked the looks, and who put on big wheels with low-profile tires.

Just be aware that a 20-inch wheel with a low-profile tire will significantly degrade off-road performance. The following video has been posted previously on the forum, but I'll post it here again. In the video, The Fast Lane Truck (TFL) takes a new Defender off-road on a rocky trail. The Defender has relatively big wheels and low-profile tires. They suffer two tire failures because of the big wheel with the low-profile tire.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391AsASvmi8

Thank you for this! This is very insightful.

 

[Wayneos]

Don't forget to allow for your own desire to do more offroading in the future. You may get inspired to hit the tracks only to need a whole new set of wheels/tyres because the 20's just won't cut it.

Just having the Gren may inspire you to get out more and more!

FWIW, I dropped my 19" wheels on my e46 M3 in favour of 18's for better ride AND cheaper tyres - the size I went for was common and cheaper than the 19" equiv, the same may be true for the Gren.

 

[shiv.nandak]

If you intend to mall crawl then fine. If you intend sand or rock driving then don’t do it, you need the sidewall for airing down for extra traction, to protect your wheels and to make the ride more comfortable. I went 17”, 18” would be the maximum I would go if you intend to offroad

In my experience, I think sand driving might be ok (with some common sense). I've made a few beach trips in my wife's Range Rover Sport with 21" wheels. Air down comfortably to 18 psi and had no issues even in deep stuff.

 

[AnD3rew]

In my experience, I think sand driving might be ok (with some common sense). I've made a few beach trips in my wife's Range Rover Sport with 21" wheels. Air down comfortably to 18 psi and had no issues even in deep stuff.

Yes you might get away with sand although the profile of the tyre makes a big difference. My Brother and I effectively had the same car but my wheels were 18” and his 18”, we webt to the beach together and both aired down to 18psi, I had no issues at all, he bogged several times until we dropped his to 14psi.

 

[Sam]

I cancelled an order for the New Defender because the minimum wheel size was 20".

IMO maximum viable rim for off-road is 18". (Old Defender had 16's)

 

[IG_LA]

Case settled, going with the 17”!

 

[Mountain4x4]

Case settled, going with the 17”!

 

[Mountain4x4]

Saving one 4x4 at a time from;

1. Bling Bling Rims
2. Fake Bull Bars
3. Nerf Bars
4. 10,000 Watts of off road Lights
5. Traction Boards
6. Cooper Tires

Someone has to do it!

 

[IG_LA]

Saving me $$ too!

 

[Tinerfeño]

Other things to consider are unsprung weight and ride quality.

With solid axles wheel weight is only minor part of unsprung weight, And you would be surprised how heavy large alloy wheels are.

Concerning ride quality: On bad roads it is MUCH worse with low profile tyres. On good road you don't notice any difference. And lowering tyre pressure is practically impossible when tyre profile is too low.