Study - fixed solar panel fitted to solar inputs of CTEK D250SE

[TheDocAUS]

THE TASK
I want to observe how the fixed solar panel on the Rhino Roofrack charges the Grenadier’s main and aux battery through the solar inputs on the CTEK D250SE.

THE GRENADIER'S SETUP

1. 2023 AU Spec 2 Seater utility Wagon, Deisel Trailmaster.
2. CTEK D250SE mated with the CTEK 120S.
3. Kings 160W Solar fixed to the Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform, then plugged into the solar inputs on the D250SE. Maximum charge rate in good sunlight is just over 9 amps. WARNING: newer models of the Kings 160W solar panel are now rated at 23.37 volts exceeding the specs of the CTEK250SE (the older panel I used was rated at 22.87 volts).
4. El cheapo BLE Battery Monitor fitted to the Main and Aux battery.

DAY 1 DATA – FROM THE BLE GRAPH
The first graph is from the BLE Battery monitor from the main battery for 24 April 2024. The second graph is from the aux battery on the same day. I hope to make observations over time to get a better understating of what impact the solar panel is having. Initial observations:

1. There was cloud cover before 11am, so the panel did not start working until after that time. Sun gone by 5pm.
2. You can see drain on the main battery when starting the car.
3. Most of the highest peaks is when the car was being driven, the solar panel struggles to charge over 14 volts.
4. It appears twice that day, the aux battery assisted with the cranking on start up, but that may not be so. I think it was the Travel Buddy when the car was turned off; I was doing some oven testing (including with the motor off). The maker says the oven has a 10 amp draw. The Travel Buddy's Anderson circuit comes direct from the aux battery (not a busbar).
5. The voltage drop below 13 volts after 1:15pm, on both graphs, was when I stopped the car and left the Travel Buddy on for about 20 minutes.
6. If the sun is out, the solar panel is probably going to cover the fridge drain and charge the battery in daylight hours.
7. No need to trickle charge, if the car is in the sun.
8. The solar charge to the main battery, when the car is stopped, appears to give more than a trickle charge (but it is still early days).

MAIN BATTERY​

AUX BATTERY​

DAY 2 DATA – FROM THE BLE GRAPH

MAIN BATTERY​

AUX BATTERY​

The Day 2 data confirms the D250SE is giving more than a trickle charge during the daylight to the main battery.

After the sun goes, the nighttime parasitic drains start - you can see that on the Day 1 data for the aux battery after 10pm, much less obvious on the main battery graph. Still very early days, the BLE also gives a 7 day and 30 graph.

MAIN BATTERY​

AUX BATTERY​

DAY 3 DATA – FROM THE BLE GRAPH

MAIN BATTERY​

AUX BATTERY​

 

[TheDocAUS]

WEEK 1 - MAIN BATTERY

WEEK 1 - AUX BATTERY

15 DAY MAIN

15 DAY AUX

NOTE: the vertical scale of the 15 day graphs are not identical. The main battery is 9v to 18v and the aux 9v to 15v.

 

[TheDocAUS]

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVING A SOLAR PANEL AND NOT HAVING IT
A 7 day graph of the aux battery voltage before and after I added the CTEK D250SE and solar panel. Most of the highest voltage peaks is when the car was being driven, the solar panel will not realistically charge over 14 volts.

The big voltage drop on the second graph on April 21 is my Start/Stop not working properly. It turns the car off and then immediately restarts it - it appears in these cases the main and the aux are both used to re-start the car. The only load I have seen a battery voltage drop like this was the car starting (or the car is in helicopter mode, when turned off).

The other obvious point is all the extra power going into the battery over the day via the solar panel - if the sun is out.

AUX BATTERY WITH NO SOLAR​

AUX BATTERY WITH SOLAR​

 

[Frosty]

Thx for posting. Please continue updating us on your longer term observations.

 

[LeonD]

I am attempting to locate the wiring for the roof outlets, which I believe are beneath the rear seat battery compartment. I would like to rewire one of the roof outlets to connect to a solar battery controller, allowing me to plug a solar panel into that specific outlet on the roof. I searched the forum but had no luck. I'm confident someone on the forum knows the locations. Any help is appreciated, and pictures would be most helpful.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Look for the aux power fuse box and follow the link below, for a detailed breakdown on the fuse box. Picture is from a 2 seater, which do not have the plastic covers 5 seaters have over the batteries.

More details here.

 

[TheDocAUS]

First 7 day graphs for the main and aux battery posted above, covering 27 April to 3 May.

 

[bakepl]

I am attempting to locate the wiring for the roof outlets, which I believe are beneath the rear seat battery compartment. I would like to rewire one of the roof outlets to connect to a solar battery controller, allowing me to plug a solar panel into that specific outlet on the roof. I searched the forum but had no luck. I'm confident someone on the forum knows the locations. Any help is appreciated, and pictures would be most helpful.

Below might be helpful. For mine I removed the cables/pins out of one of the roof DTP plugs and replaced the cable with a little more heavy duty connected direct to the solar controller. If I had known a plug/socket wasn't far away within the headlining as in the below link, I would most likely have used that connection. (thanks Jean et al)

Solar Panel Installation and Setup

Not sure if it is helpful for you, but there is a point at the end of the gutter that allows you to route a cable into the vent cover, under the rubber at the rear and then into the vehicle. There is an opens directly into the trim panels along the side at the bottom. No need to remove roof...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[TheDocAUS]

The Week 1 data above clearly the solar panel coupled with the CTEK D250SE gives more than a trickle charge to the main battery.

One qualification, the aux battery was always above 85% capacity. What you cannot see is the 160W solar panel, during the day, supplies enough power to run the BUSHMAN fridge and charge both batteries (if the sun is out). The fridge was not run overnight in that week.

 

[DenisM]

The Week 1 data above clearly the solar panel coupled with the CTEK D250SE gives more than a trickle charge to the main battery.

One qualification, the aux battery was always above 85% capacity. What you cannot see is the 160W solar panel, during the day, supplies enough power to run the BUSHMAN fridge and charge both batteries (if the sun is out). The fridge was not run overnight in that week.

did you connect the smart charge lead from the D250SE to an ignition activated 12V source?

 

[TheDocAUS]

did you connect the smart charge lead from the D250SE to an ignition activated 12V source?

I never looked what XHQ did. I will look in next day or two.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I never looked what XHQ did. I will look in next day or two.

XHQ did NOT connect the wire.

 

[TheDocAUS]

My fridge is connected to the AUX battery. This graph shows the fridge turned after 4pm on the right side of the screen:

Graph from the main battery for the same day.

 

[K1LL3M]

Interest results Doc, appreciate the effort here

I have installed an itechworld 150w shingled panel on the roof and I've seen a full charge be achieved by the second battery, and the 250 switch to sending full charge to the primary. But here the 120 looks to switch to sending charge to the second. I feel creates an appearance of full charge for the primary on the 250, sending the it into a float mode for both. There is no indication what mode the chargers are in but starting the car shows 86%ish on the dash

I'm curious if the factory Ctek 120 is identical to the retail version. With the recall to remove the accessories connection, the unconnected smart wire and what I find as unusal charging behaviour, I'm considering replacing the factory one with a retail version.

My observations are anecdotal but it feels like it is configured to maintain that 80ish sort of %,. Perhaps all for fuel use with the smart alternator. I don't know, it's just not the expected behaviour.

I have got the system to 100% charge, but it was on about a 6hr drive and I watched the system show something like 92% the next day, so I wonder if it maybe bleeds charge also.

 

[bakepl]

Interest results Doc, appreciate the effort here

I have installed an itechworld 150w shingled panel on the roof and I've seen a full charge be achieved by the second battery, and the 250 switch to sending full charge to the primary. But here the 120 looks to switch to sending charge to the second. I feel creates an appearance of full charge for the primary on the 250, sending the it into a float mode for both. There is no indication what mode the chargers are in but starting the car shows 86%ish on the dash

I'm curious if the factory Ctek 120 is identical to the retail version. With the recall to remove the accessories connection, the unconnected smart wire and what I find as unusal charging behaviour, I'm considering replacing the factory one with a retail version.

My observations are anecdotal but it feels like it is configured to maintain that 80ish sort of %,. Perhaps all for fuel use with the smart alternator. I don't know, it's just not the expected behaviour.

I have got the system to 100% charge, but it was on about a 6hr drive and I watched the system show something like 92% the next day, so I wonder if it maybe bleeds charge also.

Without taking them apart or confirmation from either Ctek or Ineos my bet would be the Ineos and retail are exactly the same. Seems Ctek/customers have identified an issue which has resulted in a number of installation additions (brackets/labels) and the reduction in capacity of the consumer out facility. They are citing the possibility of incorrect installation causing short circuits but I fail to understand how incorrect installation is linked to the reduction in consumer out capacity. Appears Ineos have assessed whatever the risk is (cannot be incorrect installation as they installed it) and decided it was enough to remove the ability for owners to use the consumer out facility. That's my take at least. Regarding the vehicle showing state of charge.... I'm not sure what or how this is counting but it's not particularly accurate from what I've seen. I've seen it at 100% once and that was driving away from the latest software update where it seems to have been recalibrated. That was about two months ago now and despite long drives or external charging has not seen that since. Ctek reference: https://www.ctek.com/product-safety-notice-smartpass

 

[Znarfgh]

Without taking them apart or confirmation from either Ctek or Ineos my bet would be the Ineos and retail are exactly the same. Seems Ctek/customers have identified an issue which has resulted in a number of installation additions (brackets/labels) and the reduction in capacity of the consumer out facility. They are citing the possibility of incorrect installation causing short circuits but I fail to understand how incorrect installation is linked to the reduction in consumer out capacity. Appears Ineos have assessed whatever the risk is (cannot be incorrect installation as they installed it) and decided it was enough to remove the ability for owners to use the consumer out facility. That's my take at least. Regarding the vehicle showing state of charge.... I'm not sure what or how this is counting but it's not particularly accurate from what I've seen. I've seen it at 100% once and that was driving away from the latest software update where it seems to have been recalibrated. That was about two months ago now and despite long drives or external charging has not seen that since. Ctek reference: https://www.ctek.com/product-safety-notice-smartpass

I suspect that someone tried to connect a high load appliance to the Smartpass 120 and that this caused a meltdown somewhere. Which is probably why CTek have placed a maximum load restriction on the consumer output and Ineos decided to disable it altogether. I don't think items like a fridge or similar would be a problem. The Smartpass was designed to be used in conjunction with a D250 DC-DC charger and this combination has been in use for many years - the Smartpass on its own however - not. No factual data behind this - just my take on the matter.

 

[bakepl]

I suspect that someone tried to connect a high load appliance to the Smartpass 120 and that this caused a meltdown somewhere. Which is probably why CTek have placed a maximum load restriction on the consumer output and Ineos decided to disable it altogether. I don't think items like a fridge or similar would be a problem. The Smartpass was designed to be used in conjunction with a D250 DC-DC charger and this combination has been in use for many years - the Smartpass on its own however - not. No factual data behind this - just my take on the matter.

Perhaps but I think Ctek have had to reduce the consumer load for some reason other than someone having connected an appliance rated higher than 80 amps as the same reasoning could apply to the new 50amp etc. i.e. someone connects an appliance with 100amps or more. This could happen to anything if a consumer does not read the specifications of a device. The Smartpass 120 had an 80amp output that Ctek de-rated to 50 and coincidently, as you say, completely disabled by Ineos. Perhaps @80 the device overheated and hence the new standoff mounting plates - just speculation of course.

 

[Znarfgh]

Perhaps but I think Ctek have had to reduce the consumer load for some reason other than someone having connected an appliance rated higher than 80 amps as the same reasoning could apply to the new 50amp etc. i.e. someone connects an appliance with 100amps or more. This could happen to anything if a consumer does not read the specifications of a device. The Smartpass 120 had an 80amp output that Ctek de-rated to 50 and coincidently, as you say, completely disabled by Ineos. Perhaps @80 the device overheated and hence the new standoff mounting plates - just speculation of course.

The other thing that comes to mind is that the Consumer output is primarily to run consumers from the alternator whilst the car is running. One wonders what effect a large draw would have on the alternator.

 

[bakepl]

The other thing that comes to mind is that the Consumer output is primarily to run consumers from the alternator whilst the car is running. One wonders what effect a large draw would have on the alternator.

Guess its now a moot point given the consumer out is now disabled but keep in mind the alternator also powers the winch which has a relatively huge draw. I'm now taking consumables directly off the aux using a victron smart battery protect and this works well.

 

[Znarfgh]

For now, I will continue to run a 10Ah LiFePO4 battery in a box. One triple Anderson to power the DC/DC charger and one Anderson out to power all the extra's. More available Ah's and I can move it to another vehicle if need be.