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Ok it dosen‘t work here;( sorry
Ok it dosen‘t work here;( sorry
Click on the link below itOk it dosen‘t work here;( sorry
Oh yesClick on the link below it
Today I got a call from INEOS - which was a new experience again.
The guy which called me is named Philip. First of all, he seemed to talk in a language I never heard before. And since I do not tell my name before an unknown caller introduces himself, I was for a moment on the edge to hang up. But then I recognized the word "INEOS". Aha.
It turned out that Philip is a native African and so is his pronunciation: African English at it's hardest.
This is not an insult, on the contrary: He was very friendly and humorous, a really nice guy. Nevertheless, that was one of the hardest African pronunciation I have ever heard. He natively comes from Rwanda - or Uganda, that was unfortunately not to understand exactly.
I am actually quite fluent in English and have learned to deal with Italians, Irish, Indians and other challenges. But ok, I got a call from INEOS, after all.
He didn't know a single word of German, so of course I introduced myself in English, and bit by bit it became clear what it was all about.
I had, and this was certainly three weeks ago, asked Customer Support where you can actually order spare parts, and how you can get the spare part numbers. In my request I had also explained that I was looking for a direct sales channel without an agent that I could use from anywhere in the world.
It turned out that my request could not be processed because the ticket system needs a "problem" in the sense of a defect or error, and therefore no ticket could be created .... (and I got the stupid answer that they "regret the incidence ... blabla ...").
The call was apparently made because I had written another, somewhat more clearly worded email to INEOS last week.
It took him a moment to understand that there was no such problem, but that I'm just looking for another grab handle for the A-pillar on the driver's side.
In fact he had apparently called my agent and asked why the handle was missing or removed from my car ....
After some back and forth I got the answer that spare parts MUST ALWAYS be ordered ONLY FROM THE AGENT. That would be binding.
He also gave me a name for the after sales business, which I had never heard before: Leif Scholz, spelled and read back in the international alphabet "Lima-Echo-India-Foxtrot ..."
I must emphasize once again that this was a really nice guy. But if you are not fluent in English and understand really hard dialects, you will have a hard time.
The whole thing raises -not only in terms of content- several questions:
Now we know that the answers of the support can only be as good or wrong as the people behind the support. I therefore still have the hope that direct orders are perhaps possible.
- How can Ineos assign someone without a word of German to contact a customer in Germany who can't a priori be assumed to speak English at all?
- And even if he did, the conversation would very likely have failed from the start, given the particular communication problems. INEOS, you are really doing EVERYTHING wrong. This is unbelievable.
- On the subject of distribution channels: surely INEOS can't be serious about forcing us to go to agents for every bolt?
- On the subject of prices: I wanted to know whether INEOS sets fixed prices for spare parts, or whether the prices are set by the dealer in the manner of a lord of the manor? He could not give me an answer, and pointed me to the name "Leif Scholz".
If not, then I'm really pissed off at how we should be screwed here. And on the subject of spare part numbers and drawings came then only the reference to the dealer.
My question to you:
- what is you take on this?
- how can we build up pressure so that the agent compulsion for spare parts is cancelled?
- who knows the name Leif Scholz?
- who knows another name to which one can turn ?
The same in Australia.For reference, this is how parts are sold in the US as well (for all car companies). If they are genuine parts, they will start their sales process through a dealer, not the auto brand itself.
I think you will find that they have plenty of disclaimers around the documents, specifications and promises.I will have a major sense of humour failure if I cannot get spares outside of the dealer network, directly from Ineos. I will have a major fit If I do not get the workshop manual and the spares list originally explained as it is a key reason for me to buy the vehicle.
Pedal back on that and they will be buying it back off me.
My guess is that you need to book an hospital appointment after your fit.I will have a major sense of humour failure if I cannot get spares outside of the dealer network, directly from Ineos. I will have a major fit If I do not get the workshop manual and the spares list originally explained as it is a key reason for me to buy the vehicle.
Pedal back on that and they will be buying it back off me.
If INEOS changes their model that all parts must be ordered through a dealer and not them directly - that changes many things on this - part of what made the vehicle attractive....I suspect there'll be a flourishing market in "generic/specialised" parts once the collective heads on this forum put their minds to it I have great faith in the "democracy " of fellow enthusiasts!!
I don't think they want to change their model.If INEOS changes their model that all parts must be ordered through a dealer and not them directly - that changes many things on this - part of what made the vehicle attractive....
HA, that's the power of a (good) community and of this forum!
I don’t think they have walked back from having the manuals available, they are like most things INEOS just delayed. They have said they will have them out. As for parts, I don’t recall any claims specifically about whether you would buy them directly from INEOS, or through their agent network, as far as I recall they just said parts would be available to service and repair yourself, or through the independent mechanic if your choice, and while that may be currently more difficult without access to a parts catalogue and manuals, I also don’t see that that has changed.This was never the deal with Ineos. Of that I am certain. Right from the get go, Ineos were saying things would be different. The agency model meant it could all be done online up to the point of purchase. Agents would just be for collection/delivery.
Then people would be fee to service their own vehicle, the CAD-IT system giving them all the granular details necessary, INCLUDING parts ordering direct.
The bloke on the second right explained all this on the live streaming event. The video of which seems to have disappeared - along with two of the people...
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I think they've rowed back on both the 3D technical info and direct parts ordering either under pressure from agents, or as a sweetener for the delays which must have hurt some agents carrying dedicated staff and premises.
I think they have possibly shared too much information that was still in the planning stage and then discovered it wasn't always possible/practical.I don’t think they have walked back from having the manuals available, they are like most things INEOS just delayed. They have said they will have them out. As for parts, I don’t recall any claims specifically about whether you would buy them directly from INEOS, or through their agent network, as far as I recall they just said parts would be available to service and repair yourself, or through the independent mechanic if your choice, and while that may be currently more difficult without access to a parts catalogue and manuals, I also don’t see that that has changed.
Totally agree - its a great longer term idea...I think they have possibly shared too much information that was still in the planning stage and then discovered it wasn't always possible/practical.
Often what seems like a good idea at the time ends up not making it to the clear light of day.
I am sure there are many people on here with the capabilities and experience to service their vehicles without voiding warranty but in reality the vast majority don't.
Nor do they really want to.
Another point to consider is that the Gren is constructed from, for all intents and purposes, off-the-shelf hardware from other companies. So, if you’re Mr. ZF, are ok with IA helping people deal with your product? What about Tremec, or Brembo, or…BMW!?I think they have possibly shared too much information that was still in the planning stage and then discovered it wasn't always possible/practical.
Often what seems like a good idea at the time ends up not making it to the clear light of day.
I am sure there are many people on here with the capabilities and experience to service their vehicles without voiding warranty but in reality the vast majority don't.
Nor do they really want to.
YesAnother point to consider is that the Gren is constructed from, for all intents and purposes, off-the-shelf hardware from other companies. So, if you’re Mr. ZF, are ok with IA helping people deal with your product? What about Tremec, or Brembo, or…BMW!?
???I think it’s time to start using any contact info we can find for regional representatives from Ineos. Not sales agents. It’s time to get some firm answers, first hand, from individuals within the company who can speak for Ineos Automotive.
We need to know:
1. Who is fixing the numerous initial quality issues and when will they be fixed?
2. Written/printed owners manual and workshop manual (previously touted and promised). When will they be in our hands? Owners deserve a specific “no later than” date for availability.
3. Parts availability per region (with direct phone numbers and web store addresses) and a guarantee of availability and price lists per region. Again with phone numbers and names of individuals responsible for supplying said parts. Again, as previously touted by Ineos Automotive as their guarantee of support for a reliability based vehicle. “You’ll be able to get parts anywhere in the world within twenty four hours” I think that might be a direct quote from an Ineos promotional video.
We have a few individuals names who have been active in promoting the grenadier. Justin Kocevar in Aus/NZ. Greg Clark is the NAmerican rep’s name and he is based in North Carolina. We need to be reaching out to these people (not rudely). It’s time they be held accountable for their sales pitches.
What they’re apparently delivering, as an ownership experience, is not what they promised. That’s totally ok until money changes hands. Once a customer has paid for that product, there’s no more excuses.
I’ll start compiling names, numbers, and email addresses so all owners can know who to call to have their issues and ongoing needs resolved. This is probably the most important service and role an online owners forum can serve.
Post up any phone numbers or email addresses you have. Don’t bother with agents/dealers/call centers. Those systems have apparently not been set up to function yet.
We should be able to get a response with specific information within a day or less directly from Ineos. Anything short of that is unacceptable customer service