Software Faults or Glitches

[DCPU]

The most recent round of demo drives have been widely reported on in the UK and Germany. Both seem to feature vehicles very recently off the production line.

I can't help but notice in nearly all of them, there's all sorts of bings, bongs and flashing messages on the central screen.

 

[emax]

What I had driven still had the emergency knobs, there were mounted between the front seats.

I think - and hope - that they (the sounds) will like the knobs disappear later. They might as well be configurable.

 

[IG Pop]

Ineos Grenadier production delayed until December - Automotive Daily

Ineos Grenadier production has begun - but the firm has admitted that customer deliveries aren’t likely to ramp up until later this year as a result of parts

www.autodaily.com.au

 

[grenadierboy]

Some good & bad news:

"Ineos Grenadier production has begun – but the firm has admitted that customer deliveries aren’t likely to ramp up until later this year as a result of parts and development delays"

- as per Sir Jim's FT interview last week, so this is good.


"However, full production ramp-up of the rugged 4×4............. is not expected to begin until December – around four months later than originally mooted – with early customer deliveries expected to begin in earnest in the new year"

- so they start customer production in some sort of "testing" phase over 6-8 weeks and then ramp up to full production capacity; this is really then further delays in car delivery


...."also work on “software maturity” that needed to be overcome"...

- is this software issues in the car or for production processes?


...."the plan had been to launch with six months of advance orders, and confirmed that the firm was “significantly” ahead of that target"....

- INEOS estimated first year production at 15,000, so they must have at least 10,000 customers having paid the refundable order deposit; this is very good

 

[DCPU]

Nice article.

I wonder if they have released it a day early:

"the first Grenadier started going down the production line at the firm’s former Mercedes factory in Hambach yesterday (Monday)."

Definitely, mention of "development delays" and "software maturity" is a widening of the previous "parts availability" message and makes more sense in the context of the "we don't want to rush it" ~ which never made sense with just parts shortages.

I wonder if we'll get more press on this tomorrow?

 

[DaveB]

The most recent round of demo drives have been widely reported on in the UK and Germany. Both seem to feature vehicles very recently off the production line.

I can't help but notice in nearly all of them, there's all sorts of bings, bongs and flashing messages on the central screen.

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The test drivers said that if you engage off road mode they wont make any sounds.
I assume these guys haven't hit that button they are just putting it in 4wd with or without centre diff locked.
You have to hit the button on the roof to turn off parking sensors, etc

 

[DCPU]

Talking of the Offroad button.

There's a bit in this video (which I thought someone had already posted on here, but I can't find it) that shows/explains the double latching requirement of the switch which I think bemax described in a test drive review but I didn't quite understand.

Starts just about 3:33:

 

[DaveB]

Talking of the Offroad button.

There's a bit in this video (which I thought someone had already posted on here, but I can't find it) that shows/explains the double latching requirement of the switch which I think bemax described in a test drive review but I didn't quite understand.

Starts just about 3:33:

That is a really interesting video

 

[klarie]

Didn' want to start another threat on software as this relates.
When I was in Aufenau for test drive I noticed a couple of indicators . that were on but our famous instructor Kurt from South Tyrol told this was related to software issues.
Later in December once production has started - still the cars could not be shipped due to software issues.
Also in December it was told the issues were fixed and shipping is imminent - and early January vehicles are en route to Australia already..
Now in another thread customer vehicle are already in Switzerland but cannot be handed to customer because of missing software update.

What I d' like to know.
- Is the fix there and just need to be applied - or another update in between already. (So called agile development.. in software new features und bug fixes every "sprint" - but also new bugs introduced and old bugs reappearing from pre -previous sprint )

And what exactly is the bug or missing capability that is hindering to hand over the vehicles to customer.
What is so complicated?

 

[emax]

What is so complicated?

One of the most delaying problems are

old bugs reappearing from pre -previous sprint

We call them 'regressions'.

I am not convinced of agile methods, at least not in the way they are mostly carried out. Agile development has the inherent problem that it aims primarily at rapid delivery. You can already see it in the wording: 'sprint'. There are some parts in agile projects which I find helpful. But the consequences are not always under control.

So called regression tests are part of e.g. the traditional V-model approach, which I prefer very much. They are as well part of agile projects, but the concept is by itself a bit in the way to get regressions under control. So it is not really 'complicated', but a problem of the 'agile' idea itself which often turns out to actually be an ideology. This depends very much on the project management. In general, if the project lead is e.g. 'scrum certified' (an agile approach), he/she will insist on the agile concept - whatever it costs.

And that's where the problem lies: They nail themselves to the cross - like all ideologies do.

 

[klarie]

One of the most delaying problems are


We call them 'regressions'.

I am not convinced of agile methods, at least not in the way they are mostly carried out. Agile development has the inherent problem that it aims primarily at rapid delivery. You can already see it in the wording: 'sprint'. There are some parts in agile projects which I find helpful. But the consequences are not always under control.

So called regression tests are part of e.g. the traditional V-model approach, which I prefer very much. They are as well part of agile projects, but the concept is by itself a bit in the way to get regressions under control. So it is not really 'complicated', but a problem of the 'agile' idea itself which often turns out to actually be an ideology. This depends very much on the project management. In general, if the project lead is e.g. 'scrum certified' (an agile approach), he/she will insist on the agile concept - whatever it costs.

And that's where the problem lies: They nail themselves to the cross - like all ideologies do.

I work for an IT company...nothing new for me - otherwise @emax I d' never mentioned this. Was rather cynic because I am often enough confronted with things like that. ( My topic is quality, compliance, master data and data aging, and lets say "special data" structures.)
But still I d' really like to know what function is buggy. - Its brakes, exhaust, airbags.. ? it must be something really significant..that is inhibiting road readiness.

 

[DCPU]

Maybe this?

 

[emax]

I work for an IT company...nothing new for me - otherwise

Ok, I considered your remark "What is so complicated" a question.

However: There can be a number of causes. And sometimes the solution to one problem is blocked by another problem. A circular-reference problem that leads to a dead lock in troubleshooting. I've seen this many times, and all too often it was a problem with the architecture not of the entire project but of a particular area in the project.

But it's all guesswork.

 

[Scan4]

Hello everybody,
i talked to my local dealer Krüll/Hamburg yesterday, he told me that they have a Production Model in Stock , but they are Not allowed to Test Drive on the road cause of Software Issues of the Airbag

 

[Krabby]

Once this is settled, I wonder if/how often we will need our software updated? There's always firmware updates on everything and I would imagine this will be no different.

 

[Logsplitter]

Once this is settled, I wonder if/how often we will need our software updated? There's always firmware updates on everything and I would imagine this will be no different.

As long as I don’t require an update when I’m in the depths of West Africa or some other remote place, to enable my vehicle to function properly, then I’ll be happy. Im hoping the Grenadier is “fixable in the field”. A once a year plug into a computer at a Bosch service centre for an annual service is what I’m banking on. All other servicing and checks I hope to do myself.

 

[klarie]

Okay..

Hello everybody,
i talked to my local dealer Krüll/Hamburg yesterday, he told me that they have a Production Model in Stock , but they are Not allowed to Test Drive on the road cause of Software Issues of the Airbag

yeah my third guess. That is indeed something you do not wanna see in lifetime. Nice it’s there. But a faulty air bag that goes off not needed or not functional when needed most is both shite.
so hope they resolve it soon. .. better remain patient.

 

[WhiteBear]

Would be nice if the software could be updated by the owner/user of the car without visiting the dealer.
Download from Ineos and then update the car via OBD-adapter. Would be the fulfillment of the promise from Ineos that the owners can service their cars by themselves.
Just dreaming.

 

[Krabby]

Would be nice if the software could be updated by the owner/user of the car without visiting the dealer.
Download from Ineos and then update the car via OBD-adapter. Would be the fulfillment of the promise from Ineos that the owners can service their cars by themselves.
Just dreaming.

Agreed. Lots of new cars have OTA updates but that adds a whole layer of complication.

 

[DCPU]

Agreed. Lots of new cars have OTA updates but that adds a whole layer of complication.

I've been following the new Defender story with regard to the SOTA. What amazes me is the total lack of visibility of the change control process for owners or the ability to opt in or out for various items.