Retail Marketing Manager

[michaeljroach]

I just applied for the West Coast Retail Marketing position at Ineos and was curious to hear your thoughts—what has worked well and what hasn't from the consumer perspective, both for owners and non-owners? I've always assumed California was going to be their biggest market and wondering what the rest of ya'll think.

 

[Krabby]

 

[WhiteBear]

Read through the forum.

 

[IslandFalconer]

I think if you look at the forums you’ll find very quickly what isn’t working. The lack of communication with owners, the issues around software, lack of promised manuals and user serviceability. Ineos Loves marketing. They have all kinds of fancy trims. But as for those of us who shelled out cash early, we’ve all but been to to go F@$& ourselves.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

So this role will be focusing on presale marketing?

Not clear on your questions. It’s too vague. What’s our thoughts on you applying for the role? - you go! You got this baby

 

[michaeljroach]

Let me know what you think…It looks to me like it’s a mix if marketing and after sales support for the region.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/4172658468

And @IslandFalconer I've read through a lot of the forums as well and definitely see a through line.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

After sales support? I think Ineos only has a team that answers the phone lines and inbox. That group comprise of scribes, record what you say. Nothing else.

No team beyond that to follow up with the customer

 

[anand]

Out of curiosity, do you own a Grenadier? I feel like that is a great way to understand the perspective

I ask because your profile pic gave me an immediate throw back to the LA PTO2 event

 

[michaeljroach]

Out of curiosity, do you own a Grenadier? I feel like that is a great way to understand the perspective

I ask because your profile pic gave me an immediate throw back to the LA PTO2 event

I do not, but I had one of the first orders to land, I think number 14 in LA and the financing at the time put the vehicle at about 98k out the door and that's where I fell off...and yes, that image is from the PT02 event. I really want this brand to succeed and hope to be a future owner at some point in the next year or so.

 

[michaeljroach]

Was doodling some ideas down this morning of a few of the marketing gaps are from my perspective (Will be adding more):

• Luxury or Utility? Needs clearer positioning on if it's a luxury vehicle. In my opinion I think it is for the price it's currently at.
• Better sales look: Belstaff-designed uniforms??? > A lot of what I've seen looks like they still sell Jaaaaagggggsss.
• Dealer clubhouses? What happened to that concept? I recall them being a place for people to talk shop for hang out before going on a trip.
• Social media needs work: Dealers need better content that matches the brand. I've looked at all the dealer content and feels very haphazardly put together. (my background is in marketing, social growth, and brand positioning for reference)
• Built on Purpose: I've realized the vehicle is not built on purpose, but really "Built on Heritage"
• Post purchase comms: There needs to be a strong post purchase funnel so you feel like you are now part of an elite club once you own one. Maybe that could be in partnership with the forum???
• Top of Funnel awareness: Not many people seem to still know what this vehicle is, could being house cars at particular hotels help with awareness and positioning?

Ineos has the product—it's time for them to refine their messaging. Thoughts?

 

[anand]

Was doodling some ideas down this morning of a few of the marketing gaps are from my perspective (Will be adding more):

• Luxury or Utility? Needs clearer positioning on if it's a luxury vehicle. In my opinion I think it is for the price it's currently at.
• Better sales look: Belstaff-designed uniforms??? > A lot of what I've seen looks like they still sell Jaaaaagggggsss.
• Dealer clubhouses? What happened to that concept? I recall them being a place for people to talk shop for hang out before going on a trip.
• Social media needs work: Dealers need better content that matches the brand. I've looked at all the dealer content and feels very haphazardly put together. (my background is in marketing, social growth, and brand positioning for reference)
• Built on Purpose: I've realized the vehicle is not built on purpose, but really "Built on Heritage"
• Post purchase comms: There needs to be a strong post purchase funnel so you feel like you are now part of an elite club once you own one. Maybe that could be in partnership with the forum???
• Top of Funnel awareness: Not many people seem to still know what this vehicle is, could being house cars at particular hotels help with awareness and positioning?

Ineos has the product—it's time for them to refine their messaging. Thoughts?

Honestly, it isn't a luxury vehicle. It has a luxury price tag (at the upper end), but nothing else says luxury about it. A sub $30k vehicle has more tech, vehicles half its price have more luxury trimmings and features, and the driving experience doesn't exude any sort of luxury. It is a utility-centric tool that has priced itself into a niche where only a certain subset of buyers can or will buy it.

While this is a departure from the current marketing route of the brand, I think marketing it to an upscale crowd will end up with unsatisfied buyers who will inevitably sell them to go back to G-Wagens and Range Rovers. Personally, I think marketing should focus on getting out and doing adventures. Specifically, not an African safari, or even international multi-year travel. Use the dozens of owners who are regularly doing weekend trips to their favorite backcountry spots, or a week long trip along the dozen BDR routes.

Also, the Built On Purpose slogan was dropped almost a year ago, it is Built for More now

 

[michaeljroach]

So my thoughts on it being luxury is that I can get a Cartier Santos watch for about 8k or an Apple Watch Ultra for $800. You're not buying the Cartier for it's utility your buying it for signaling. I see the same thing with the Grenadier. You can buy a no nonsense used Toyota for much less but I assume most are buying the Grenadier to show that they wanted a heritage vehicle and didn't want the new Defender.

I'd love to know what the current demographic of owners are and who they are currently trying to advertise too.

 

[Emil]

Grenadier = expensive tool.

Can-do vehicle, make it mine-ready.

Luxury „for me,“ not luxury „for others.“

Escape car for well-off 50+.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Their upmarket strategy is some unique leather upholstery and different paint scheme… it’s so sad.. they should not even attempt.

 

[anand]

So my thoughts on it being luxury is that I can get a Cartier Santos watch for about 8k or an Apple Watch Ultra for $800. You're not buying the Cartier for it's utility your buying it for signaling. I see the same thing with the Grenadier. You can buy a no nonsense used Toyota for much less but I assume most are buying the Grenadier to show that they wanted a heritage vehicle and didn't want the new Defender.

I'd love to know what the current demographic of owners are and who they are currently trying to advertise too.

If Toyota offered a solid front axle SUV (or even something with an OEM front locker for <$90k) with 1700lbs of payload, I would have easily decided to buy that instead. The only direct competition is a Wrangler, but the driving experience is vastly different, and I don't think I could push myself to buy a Jeep.

Do I love my Grenadier? Absolutely. Is it quirky and annoys the hell out of me almost as frequently as it makes me smile? Also absolutely. Would I buy another one? Probably not.

I think that signaling only works if people know what it is and both the owner and the observer actually care about it. I don't feel that the Grenadier has any heritage, it's a brand new car brand with a vehicle that looks similar to two others depending on which way you're looking at it because the owner loved one of those vehicles, and the design company builds the other. Telling the countless people who ask about it on the street has never once garnered an "ooooo" or "ahhhh" response. The majority of them assume it's an old Defender and worth almost nothing or they think it's a G-Wagen, and once they find out it isn't aren't interested at all. I've had one gent who assumed it was a replica-style kit car.

Then again, I'm probably the wrong person to consult regarding signaling. On a daily basis you'll catch me in 7+ year old jeans, a free industry-related t-shirt, and some boots. I guess the original orange band on my Garmin watch attracts attention, but that's because I'm too lazy to swap it out to something less flashy.

If I wanted a luxury vehicle, I'd stick to the tried and true brands

 

[Skymark]

IMO, INEOS only wants to go upmarket luxury after seeing the relative success of JLR 2020 Defender sales and their own relative failure to follow through on their go-to-market strategy. But "How do I get me some of that...." is not a winning strategy strategy either when you are an immature startup with no market share. And not when JLR has decades of brand awareness, heritage and market share to leverage that INEOS does not. "Its a new, old defender" has reached the end of the runway (which was not all that long to begin with in INEOS' largest market - USA - where the old defender was mostly unobtainium anyway). Not having heritage or brand awareness, INEOS should be leaning hard into developing a personal relationship with each and every current Grenadier owner (of which I am one) in order to create a rabidly enthusiastic fanbase upon which to build a marketing strategy of trips off road. Why in the world would I buy a relatively uncomfortable Grenadier to signal to my friends at the club when I could just as easily buy a better G-Wagon or Defender to do the same? That is not why I bought mine.
I don't suppose selling industrial chemicals to industry develops muscle tone or instincts for the kind of B2C, customer experience outreach this strategy requires. But as I understand it, INEOS' culture is all about pushing through and doing the hard things so maybe its not too late?

 

[Lars]

I purchased the Grenadier because it was something different, was a "tip-of-the-hat" to old school Defender and was "Built on Purpose" with an off-road bias. I have a love/hate relationship with the vehicle. It is definitely not as capable as my Rubicon off- road and I've had to completely change how I use it.
Is it not possible to have two completely different versions? One with factory 35" tires and a lower geared transfer case for dedicated off-roaders, and one version that's on road only; low to the ground, performance tuned B58, leather, and maybe even air dams all around?
My biggest beef with Ineos is probably absolutely no communications from them after we all bought into their vision. I guess I expected more.

 

[PDX_Keith]

Customer support. I literally just started a thread on this but it almost feels unnecessary after reading this. I'm glad it wasn't just me that they didn't care about!

 

[Cheshire cat]

I think if they were able to win some military contracts, they could follow the path, and be a successor to the G Wagon and original Land Rover.

 

[Jeremy996]

I'm a Brit, so I'm not sure how relevant my thoughts are, but the big issues I see for the Grenadier is it is a bit too small to be a conventional luxury vehicle and they have failed miserably to deliver the original "maintain it yourself if you want, as remotely as you like" vibe by not releasing the workshop manuals and parts books. Even when they do, how will I fix it when I don't have reliable access to the Internet? (needed to validate the licensing).

{Give me a .pdf to match my vehicle's spec tied to the VIN and where suppliers restrict their IP, show the empty spaces. I don't expect to be able to rebuild the engine or gearbox at the side of the trail, but I need to be able to diagnose which assembly needs to be changed to make it mobile again. I also need to know where all of the wires/control units/connectors are so I can customise my truck without breaking stuff}

I bought mine as a deliberate attempt to buy a vehicle I could keep for 20+ years; run it, alter it, add stuff to it, rebuild it to shiny, pass it on to my son. I have a 50 year old Morgan with a similar mission, but a much simpler bit of technology.

Overbuilt vehicles like the Grenadier should be able to last forever with regular maintenance, so this should be the vehicular equivalent of a Dualit toaster, Rolex or Tudor watch, Wusthof knives; designed for a long life of service, capable of use long after contemporaries have been turned back to bean tins.

I think Ineos should keep the overlander/adventurer images, adding exclusivity by offering custom packages geared around extended travel rather than wooly headlining, but also target industry where custom bodies and fit out is commonplace. Just giving owners free access to the technical manuals would give you a massive marketing differential to your competitors! I can think of a few fleet operators who would be delighted if they could do basic maintenance on their own fleets without friction.

Most owners will not venture into the unknown, (my wife hates camping, so I'll just be doing motorsport weekends), but we want to feel like we can, and those that do, give the rest of us hope! I do want to be able to address my own truck with a spanner and laptop, but more so I can customise it - the dealer is welcome to all of the work that needs a lift or environmental disposal licences.