UK & Ireland Rejecting Vehicle (UK)

[trobex]

In the UK the dealer as 30 days to rectify faults present at delivery, if these aren’t fixed you can reject the vehicle without loss.

This is what many do not know - it is not Australian law.

 

[Shopkeep]

This is what many do not know - it is not Australian law.

Australian consumer law is stronger as it is not limited by any time period, rather a reasonable time (for both how long the product should last and how long the retailer takes to rectify any fault).

 

[Pipm4000]

Thanks for the replies - don’t know if it’s coincidence but I had a reply today confirming the delay is due to them not having all processes set up and they are working to get the transaction complete. Will confirm when it’s done.

 

[DaveB]

This is what many do not know - it is not Australian law.

I was pretty much aware that the UK law isn't applicable in Australia.

 

[YellowLab]

Same in Massachusetts. It’s called the lemon law. They have three try to fix it within I think a month or you get ALL you money back.

And wait until they deal with the People's Republic of Kalifornia!

 

[ECrider]

And wait until they deal with the People's Republic of Kalifornia!

not to be confused with the Kalifornia's People Republic!

Spliters!!

 

[trobex]

Australian consumer law is stronger as it is not limited by any time period, rather a reasonable time (for both how long the product should last and how long the retailer takes to rectify any fault).

Ever tried to return a vehicle after say... 18 months... I know two who have, and it was a total disaster for everyone to the point threats were made as to where their 'vehicles' would next be 'parked' when dealers tried to 'hide' from the lemons!

 

[trobex]

I was pretty much aware that the UK law isn't applicable in Australia.

Unless you are being extradited...

 

[DaveB]

Unless you are being extradited...

That would be if you are a British citizen.

 

[trobex]

That would be if you are a British citizen.

Lol. Do we not extradite them anyway???

 

[ECrider]

Think you can be extradited whatever your citizenship - yanks love it..

 

[@nd]

I must admit to being a little bit confused.


I don't see how you could decide to reject the vehicle.
Who did you hand it back to and where is it?
I hope you still have insurance on it.
You had paid for it, put it in your name, drove it away.
At that stage you own it and any issues are just warranty claims.
I don't see how anyone at Ineos could have said they will just give you a refund.
They would have to either

• repair it under warranty,
• provide a complete replacement vehicle under warranty,
• or purchase the vehicle from you.

The first two options are easy and they will have mechanisms in place.
The last one would require documents, bill of sale, taxes, change of registration etc etc .
Ineos may not even have the ability to do that.

This is in the contract for the UK at least, i should think that this is also covered by the remote selling laws

Returning the Vehicle

3.1 It is your responsibility to return the Vehicle without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days from the day on which you communicate your decision to cancel this Agreement.

3.2 We will withhold the reimbursement until we have received (a) the Vehicle, which must be in the same condition as when it was delivered to you; (b) all paperwork relating to the Vehicle; and (c) paperwork relating to the transfer of ownership of the Vehicle from you to us. You will have to bear the direct cost of returning the Vehicle us. You will take full responsibility for the safe return of the Vehicle including its tax, insurance, and the resolution of any fines, charges or penalties until it has been accepted back to our premises. The Vehicle must not be driven from the date you notify us of your cancellation, other than to drive it back to us.

3.3 The Vehicle can be driven to us to the Point of Delivery address listed above.

3.4 When we have received the Vehicle at our premises, we will inspect the Vehicle and will deduct from the reimbursement to you the amount required to return the Vehicle to the condition it was in at the time of delivery to you.

 

[DCPU]

Are you expecting them to deduct any money for mileage?

 

[Pipm4000]

I expect a full refund, the t’s and c’s relate to distance selling regs, not consumer law. The rules on short term rejection under the 2015 consumer rights act do not allow for deductions by the seller. In fairness the car was perfect except the faults and half of its 500 miles were to and from the dealer for issues.

 

[trobex]

I expect a full refund, the t’s and c’s relate to distance selling regs, not consumer law. The rules on short term rejection under the 2015 consumer rights act do not allow for deductions by the seller. In fairness the car was perfect except the faults and half of its 500 miles were to and from the dealer for issues.

I respect this decision. If we could return lemons in Australia... Toyota DPF issues would have sunk them!

 

[Toady]

In the UK the dealer as 30 days to rectify faults present at delivery, if these aren’t fixed you can reject the vehicle without loss.

If am not mistaken, the above is actually incorrect, in so far as if the vehicle has faults within the first 30-days the consumer can formally reject the car AND does NOT have to give the dealer the opportunity to resolve the faults. Rejection of the vehicle is outright and final; this is generally known as: a short term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

After 30-days and before six months you can reject the car but have to allow the dealer one opportunity to resolve the issue(s). The 30-day to six month period is known as the final right to reject.

Therefore, the OP @Pipm4000 does not have to give the dealer the opportunity to resolve the faults within the first 30-days of ownership; they simply have to document the faults in writing, formally reject the car (in writing) and return it to the dealership. The dealership have the right to review the faults but this should not take four weeks and the fact the OP does not have a resolution and a refund is not fair and reasonable.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Apart from the discussion of the various lemon laws, I'd love to know what was causing the faults in case others encounter it. I agree that the variety and persistence of faults suggests a voltage issue, since basically all those sensors work on a specific voltage range and if they don't get it, they'll interpret it as a problem.

I think this kind of issue can be caused by one of three things:

1) Bad Battery. It's rare but not unheard of for a battery to have a faulty cell or something and not throw the right voltage. This might also interfere with the Alternator; unlike "back in the day" all Alternators today are "smart" and adjust their charging based on readings from the battery (instead of just putting out a constant voltage). If the battery is bad, it might be confusing the amount of voltage the alternator is trying to put out to the point where it's still charging the faulty battery, but it's not giving the systems the right voltage to operate. I had this happen on a Jeep back in the day, a battery swap fixed it.
2) Bad Alternator. This is likely even more rare as it suggests a brand-new factory part that has gone bad, and this isn't an Ineos-original; this should be a BMW (or more likely a Bosch or something similar subcontracted for that part) and there are a ton of them in circulation.
3) Software Issue. This is the most concerning, but also easy to fix - if there are gremlins in their program that runs the vehicle, then an update is required, though I am aware that they've already done one. But, a software problem would be more universal - i.e. we'd see problems like this manifest in more Grens, because they all run the same software.

@Pipm4000 I am very sorry you have had this experience with your Grenadier. I can only imagine how disappointing this must be. Any more information you can provide on the technical side would be really greatly appreciated; as @Jean Mercier said, many of us will rely on the technical info from this forum to keep our Grens ticking for the foreseeable future so if your Dealer ever does get back to you with an ID of the problem, please do share!

 

[ED Mulrenin]

I wasn’t going to post this but……I had one of the early May deliveries. When the car was ready I paid, insured it, it was taxed and i collected it. On startup it showed transmission error. The dealer said don’t worry it will clear and we have a software update soon. Normally I wouldn’t have driven away but because of the dealer model the car was already in my name. Off I went. Over the first month I had 2 air conditioning failures and multiple warnings - all of them - transmission, airbag, power steering, parking sensors, tyres every journey, ecall etc. the trip computer didn’t work either. The dealer said no software was available. On day 27 I took some friends to dinner. They got into the back and the seatbelt warning started and wouldn’t stop. They tried connecting all the seatbelts. I had to park take the key out and lock the car to get it to stop. The journey to the pub was full of warnings over and over again. Two of my friends sidled up to me and said “mate get rid of it”. One sleepless night later I decided to reject the vehicle. I couldn’t sell it - the airbag and power steering warnings were an MOT failure. I phoned Ineos and phoned the dealer - they had no solution so I took the car to the dealer and handed everything over. Ineos were great at first - “we understand” “we’ll process the refund” etc etc. after one week I chased - escalated then nothing chased again and again and again - some replies but now radio silence for over 10 days. No responses to my emails at all. I am over a month since handing it back - what should I do? I basically feel like I’ve been scammed. Am I going to see the £70k again? Anyone have a good contact at Ineos?

So sorry you are going through this. Unless I hear how Ineos resolved this. I would be guilty of using poor judgment if I placed my final order next week. Thanks for posting this.

 

[DCPU]

Apart from the discussion of the various lemon laws, I'd love to know what was causing the faults in case others encounter it. I agree that the variety and persistence of faults suggests a voltage issue, since basically all those sensors work on a specific voltage range and if they don't get it, they'll interpret it as a problem.

I have my pet theory..."Babbling Idiot" failure mode:
Post in thread 'Who is experiencing software or electrical gremlins?' https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...-electrical-gremlins.12411996/post-1333181091

 

[MARKG]

In the UK the dealer as 30 days to rectify faults present at delivery, if these aren’t fixed you can reject the vehicle without loss.

doesn`t apply as dealers are agents only , contract is with ineos , all liability lies with Ineos