Public Reactions to Driving a Grenadier

[grenadierboy]

I am interested that quite a few from Europe, it seems especially those from Germany/Austria, have raised the issue of public reaction to driving a Grenadier.

Are these comments partly "tongue-in-cheek" and based on envy of the Grenadier or are they reflective of a real issue to own such a car.

In other words, would some European based potential Grenadier owners decide NOT to purchase because of these ownership issues?

Here in Australia there is absolutely no such issues in driving 4WD/SUV's, in fact, the reverse is true.

For many years, the 4WD & SUV segment of the car market continues to grow faster than any other segment, including for those who live inner city and never drive off the bitumen, especially as these vehicles become more luxurious, easier to drive and fuel efficient. 

 

[emax]

This is definitely a concern in quite some areas.

Berlin, Hamburg, (mainly but not only) the big cities. There are the climate lunatics and planet rescuers, the anti-fascists (which are fascists themselves) and many other 'problematic' groups (I call them criminals) which do indeed put fire on cars which are apparently "establishment" cars, they break your windows, scratch the painting, cut the tires or ruin the car somehow in another way.

I am lucky to live on the country side in a residential dead-end street. But I'd think twice to drive to a major city with the grenadier and park it somewhere in in a public and crowded area.

This country, the BRD - (Bananenrepublik Deutschland) has  long since lost its democratic roots and its principles of law and order.

We are facing the results of Angela Merkels politics of the past 20 years. And it's getting even worse with the greens and the social(ist) democrats now.

I know that not everybody sees this the same way. But I have long since given up to argue - and do in fact give all that "tolerance", "solidarity" and arguing nothing more than A SHIT.

Sorry. But you asked. :-|

 

[grenadierboy]

Thanks for your comments.

Maybe these trends you mention are more recent?

I have tried explaining to friends of mine that have electric cars of the falseness of their net zero claim and, even that they currently emit, in totality, more CO2 than a combustion engine but with little success - they wish to signal: "look at me - how virtuous I am in saving the planet"

I lived in London for 3 years and then Luxembourg for 13 years (until 2015) and worked with many Germans from Trier and Frankfurt.

Motor vehicles seemed to be much loved by many (most?) of them - of all types - driving them and discussing them.

In those years I did not follow German politics closely but noted that Merkel was very popular and held in high regard, I assumed because her policies were mainstream and satisfied the majority.

 

[emax]

I have to be careful in that I get angry too fast when it comes to "Angie".

Yes, she was and is mainstream, compatible, hinterfotzig (guileful, underhanded), and politically killed all men (i.e. males) of her team which had the format to push her from her throne. 

The EV-drivers with the "zero-emission" cars mostly come from higher income-levels, and don't care about the origin and the mining of the raw materials.

They are green-washers and mostly green-voters as well.

But as far as I am concerned I would prefer not to participate any more in that topic. It ruins my day, and politics, though it really needs a discourse, is, as I think, not a good subject for a forum.

At least not for me.

 

[cheswick]

[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332980285]This is definitely a concern in quite some areas.

Berlin, Hamburg, (mainly but not only) the big cities. There are the climate lunatics and planet rescuers, the anti-fascists (which are fascists themselves) and many other 'problematic' groups (I call them criminals) which do indeed put fire on cars which are apparently "establishment" cars, they break your windows, scratch the painting, cut the tires or ruin the car somehow in another way.
...

[/QUOTE]

I find it remarkable that these people can live with the somewhat obvious cognitive dissonance.

i.e: 
- I want to save the climate so I'll go and set a car on fire.
- I am "anti fascist" so I'll use violence against people that hold a different opinion to me.

 

[Charlie3875]

The statement that EV emit more CO2, in totality, is just wrong. Lots of analysis has been done on this. There are more emissions in their construction but savings in use even if the electricity isn’t from renewables. Large differences if the electricity comes from renewables. Happy to send you some links but I really don’t think this forum is the place for it. I think it’s important to reduce CO2 emissions but will still be buying a Grenadier as EV can’t do the job yet.  I’ll buy offsets and avoid overseas plane flights. 

 

[grenadierboy]

Agree Cheswick we have developed into a society of mobs with pitchforks & flaming torches seeking to burn up whichever witch is their hatred of the moment.

As the great British philosopher, John Stuart Mill, said......the evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is robbing the human race because if the opinion is right, people are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth and if the opinion is wrong, people lose the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth produced by its collision with the error.

But I like the approach of emax - much better to discuss the beautiful Grenadier!

 

[WhiteBear]

[QUOTE username=Charlie3875 userid=9006390 postid=1332980505]The statement that EV emit more CO2, in totality, is just wrong. Lots of analysis has been done on this. There are more emissions in their construction but savings in use even if the electricity isn’t from renewables. Large differences if the electricity comes from renewables. Happy to send you some links but I really don’t think this forum is the place for it. I think it’s important to reduce CO2 emissions but will still be buying a Grenadier as EV can’t do the job yet.  I’ll buy offsets and avoid overseas plane flights. [/QUOTE]

Exactly, I agree.  

 

[Cavaleiro]

In times where a flood of the century in the Eifel (Germany) last year or the drought of the millennium currently prevail in Southern Europe and in German media SUV's are seen in one breath as co-triggers, you can certainly guess how you are noticed as a Grenadier driver in the big cities.

In addition, serious personal accidents in urban traffic are attributed to SUVs and a picture is drawn that SUV drivers are careless contemporaries with regard to the environment and fellow human beings.

As I have already mentioned elsewhere here in the forum, I was already insulted at the traffic lights in Cologne with the classic car (40 years) as an environmental polluter. Yet the classic car has a much better environmental balance and does not consume more fuel than so many hybrid vehicles that move significantly more weight through the area without electric charge and consume more fuel than comparable models without hybrid electrification.

Of course, there has to be a change, but it won't happen overnight and it will be even more difficult in rural areas.

A small example: oil heating systems are certainly not state of the art, and gas heating systems are no longer really state of the art either, at the latest with the war and the enormous dependencies. The flood last year gave me a good chance to switch to geothermal heating, since a new installation was necessary anyway. I wait a year later, today still, for the technology which is not available and these days you heard also in the media self-critically from the handicraft: we do not have at all in the quantity the trained people around alternative energies to force. According to our environment minister, everyone should have solar cells on the roof, waiting time for offers currently here about 6 months, delivery and construction at the earliest 6-12 months after order.


At the end of the day, I hope it will also depend somewhat on the vehicle itself, and that a Grenadier may not be as polarizing as a Mercedes G-Class, a GLE, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. because you will not see so many on the road or cities. With the Defender, I've never been met with hostility - on the contrary, in Portugal I've been given a thumbs-up a few times. 

As an example, a contribution from public television in Germany from a few weeks ago, unfortunately in German, but the pictures alone certainly clarify the focus already of the report. In the report, city dwellers were asked about their SUVs, or in a small town, the parking fee was determined as a fake according to vehicle size, etc.:
https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/quarks-und-caspers/der-suv-boom-stadtpanzer-im-klimawandel/das-erste/Y3JpZDovL2Rhc2Vyc3RlLmRlL3F1YXJrcy1jYXNwZXJzL2QyNThmODUzLTBjZDYtNGRhNy1iNWQ0LWY1MDRjNzA1ZjE4OQ

The whole article ended with an illustration of how cities would look if cars were smaller and narrower again (screenshots from the ARD report):
 
 

We future drivers of a Grenadier still prevent this idyll....

 

[Tazzieman]

What is the Euro attitude to a smallish car towing a big caravan?

 

[grenadierboy]

No problem at all Tazzieman.

Having lived in Europe saw many caravan owners (typically Dutch) during the summer months towing a van (often a decent size) with a very small car - think 1.4 Ford Focus with 5 persons on board!

 

[Shaky]

As I have mentioned in previous posts, there is a group in the UK going round the cities letting down tyres on “gas guzzler” 4x4 vehicles. Currently in cities only but it won’t be long before it spreads further. They let down the tyres on a Skoda Yeti recently, the irony of a vehicle that size and a 2.0 tdi engine being a gas guzzler obviously passed them by. 

 

[Gamlind_der_graue]

I do not see the topic in Germany as dark as emax do but there is a wide spread tendency against dedicated 4WD while Soft AWD and small SUV , and also Van ( which are in Terms off weight near the 4WD) are rising. ( latest oil price ... not included).

A VW Bus with AWD and some mod ( in direction off Offroad Tourer (Seikel / Terranger) is more accepted as a 4WD  with Camper mods.

I live about 50 km from Stuttgart in a village with some real and "moonshine" Farmers around me, here there are some (countable) Guys with real 4WD workhorses around ( for catles Transport ... ) that is well accepted.

But I think the time off shiny, fun, show off is in these region gone.

So at least put a serious hitch on the car and pretend to do forest work seems to be a good plan. ( You see I am seeking porpose why I need such a Vehicle, the opportunity to drive (legal) these vehicles on tracks where they can really show there potential is very limited and mostly to private property reduced.

 

[DaveB]

I am interested that quite a few from Europe, it seems especially those from Germany/Austria, have raised the issue of public reaction to driving a Grenadier.

Are these comments partly "tongue-in-cheek" and based on envy of the Grenadier or are they reflective of a real issue to own such a car.

In other words, would some European based potential Grenadier owners decide NOT to purchase because of these ownership issues?

Here in Australia there is absolutely no such issues in driving 4WD/SUV's, in fact, the reverse is true.

For many years, the 4WD & SUV segment of the car market continues to grow faster than any other segment, including for those who live inner city and never drive off the bitumen, especially as these vehicles become more luxurious, easier to drive and fuel efficient.

Toyota Hilux has long been the no1 selling vehicle in Australia.
Dual cab utes are the number one selling vehicle type in Australia

 

[DaveB]

I moved to Sydney in 1978 to experience living in the big smoke.
I left in 1987 because it was too crowded, noisy, busy with traffic, and with a population of 3.5 Million.
After living in Devonport, Launceston, Perth (twice) Brisbane and Melbourne I finally moved to the Gold Coast in 2003 when the population was 462,000. Now the population has hit 722,000, the traffic is a nightmare and we are also getting pressure to go to electric vehicles, ride electric bikes and take public transport. At the end of this year we have decided to move to Toogoom, population 4,562. We are also moving to the old part of Toogoom which has a population of less than 100. I shall drive and park my diesel Grenadier happily. I will smile while reversing down the boat ramp to launch my boat. I will drive the 20 minutes to get to the car ferry to go over to Fraser Island where only large, real 4wds are allowed.
Hopefully I can survive the rest of my life without having to suffer any of these protesters and vandals you speak of.

 

[cheswick]

In case the gentle reader missed the reference in my earlier post, the tire deflator folks are becoming a world wide movement intent on inconveniencing suv owners - mostly in urban areas - to the point of said owners switching away from their selfish, oversized, fuel guzzling, climate destroyers to what the activists consider a more appropriate vehicle/lifestyle. Oddly, hybrid and EV SUVs are also targeted, just because.

They claim some success in changing buying habbits.

Wel they pushed me in the opposite direction when I lived in the inner city. The local council was of the enviro-socialist bent and thought that putting an offensively bone rattling speed hump every 20m throughout the entire suburb would somehow dissuade people from driving. I swapped my small hatchback for a large 4wd, the speed humps didn’t bother me anymore.

 

[klarie]

I am interested that quite a few from Europe, it seems especially those from Germany/Austria, have raised the issue of public reaction to driving a Grenadier.

Are these comments partly "tongue-in-cheek" and based on envy of the Grenadier or are they reflective of a real issue to own such a car.

In other words, would some European based potential Grenadier owners decide NOT to purchase because of these ownership issues?

Here in Australia there is absolutely no such issues in driving 4WD/SUV's, in fact, the reverse is true.

For many years, the 4WD & SUV segment of the car market continues to grow faster than any other segment, including for those who live inner city and never drive off the bitumen, especially as these vehicles become more luxurious, easier to drive and fuel efficient.

Hi, even if this thread is now a bit older - I should comment on this.
I live somewhat in distance of 38kms distance - 35minutes drive to Frankfurt / Main.
Of course we have all kind of vehicles (Aston Martin, Ferrari, Hummer H.. ) there make environmentalists, left wing radicals, last generation, stop oil and other zero neuronals. may attract, we have also ALF Animal Liberation Front, and other alikes down there.

They blame most SUV - from Range Rover to litte Ford Kuga (mimic SUV) as "Street-Tanks" only to be used to get children to school. Real offroaders are rare. To be frank, I d' never travel to Berlin, Hamburg or even Frankfurt with a 4.90m vehicle just for fun or shopping. Its not fun to manoeuvring such a vehicle in a parking lot. Countryside - no one cares. If you want to be on the safe side - put a sticker of a local environment protection group in - or "save the bees". (or hamster, toads, whatsoever ) They would assume you re using the vehicle on "good" purpose reducing but not eliminating vandalism risk. Stupidity is infinite.

 

[cheswick]

Hi, even if this thread is now a bit older - I should comment on this.
I live somewhat in distance of 38kms distance - 35minutes drive to Frankfurt / Main.
Of course we have all kind of vehicles (Aston Martin, Ferrari, Hummer H.. ) there make environmentalists, left wing radicals, last generation, stop oil and other zero neuronals. may attract, we have also ALF Animal Liberation Front, and other alikes down there.

They blame most SUV - from Range Rover to litte Ford Kuga (mimic SUV) as "Street-Tanks" only to be used to get children to school. Real offroaders are rare. To be frank, I d' never travel to Berlin, Hamburg or even Frankfurt with a 4.90m vehicle just for fun or shopping. Its not fun to manoeuvring such a vehicle in a parking lot. Countryside - no one cares. If you want to be on the safe side - put a sticker of a local environment protection group in - or "save the bees". (or hamster, toads, whatsoever ) They would assume you re using the vehicle on "good" purpose reducing but not eliminating vandalism risk. Stupidity is infinite.

I fear a "conservation" sticker could be interpreted as "conservative" to a person with that few brain cells

 

[DCPU]

There's a potential double whammy with regard to the Grenadier ~ those that attack it as a large 4x4; and those that may attack something branded to Ineos, especially now fracking is back on the UK political agenda.

I see the orange paint brigade (Just Stop Oil) sprayed an Aston Martin dealership over the weekend.

 

[klarie]

Perhaps.. in Germany there are some NGO such as NABU that could be used or a sunflower sticker. Most of these "activists" using superglue to stick themselves to road or similar are paid to do so. In Berlin one was photographed disposing the glue container in a gully. So far their brain capability.

This brings me to something different, what I discussed with my spouse this morning. Is there something to lock the roof ladder at rear to prevent from unauthorised climbing on the roof?