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Procedure to shift into Neutral with a dead battery (fiddly but doable)

Eric

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I would like to reopen this discussion.

Our French forum member @Virginie had a week ago a problem and could not get her car towed.

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/panne-démarrage-startup-failure.12415439/#post-1333272310

I thought it was only necessary to put the transfer case bolt in neutral like explained in the manual.

But she said a “special hook” was necessary to put “also” the ZF gearbox in neutral, and as her car didn’t respond electrically, she couldn’t put it in neutral.

So my question is, in case we need towing the car is it necessary to:
  • Put the transfer case in neutral as explained in the manual?
  • Also the ZF gearbox in neutral (not mentioned in the manual)?
  • Or both?
@holdmybeer did reference (first post of this thread) a video “How To Put The ZF 8-Speed In Neutral Using The Neutral Safety Switch Bypass”.

Fairly easy, but, not for the Grenadier, no such bolt, as shown in the video, but the lever is indeed visible:

View attachment 7855768

To check if I had to push or pull the lever to put it in neutral, I started the car and did put the inside BMW shifter in neutral, and this was the position:

View attachment 7855769

Therefore pulling the lever should do it!

Then, car motor off, I did put a hook in the lever and hung 5 kg weight on it, not enough to reach the position of the former picture, but yes, it moved.
View attachment 7855770

In fact, I am worried: what if I have a dead battery or another electrical problem, car wash function will not work: can I get my car towed or not!

And – if indeed mandatory – what is the easiest way to pull that lever downward. I have already an idea, but not that easy. No I will NOT carry a chain and a weight of 20kg in my car for in case of!
I don't understand @Jean Mercier what has gone on here. Surely if the transfer box has been put into neutral by the hex nut, power or no power the vehicle is free to be towed onto a low loader truck? Why would the auto box need to be in neutral?
 
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Jean Mercier

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I don't understand @Jean Mercier what has gone on here. Surely if the transfer box has been put into neutral by the hex nut, power or no power the vehicle is free to be towed onto a low loader trunk? Why would the auto box need to be in neutral?
Well, that's exactly my question: power or no power?
I think one of these days I will test it out myself with the hex nut.
 

Eric

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Well, that's exactly my question: power or no power?
I think one of these days I will test it out myself with the hex nut.
My only assumption/conclusion is the transfer box hex nut was turned to far (I think there is a warning of this in the manual) or not far enough. It is a manual mechanical disengagement so I cannot see what power has to do with it.
 

Clark Kent

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My only assumption/conclusion is the transfer box hex nut was turned to far (I think there is a warning of this in the manual) or not far enough. It is a manual mechanical disengagement so I cannot see what power has to do with it.
I think this was likely the problem. The manual is clear on this point. Bottom the screw clockwise to put the transfer case into neutral. I posted those instructions when Paul Cooper got stuck in Tangier.
I think the transmission neutral safety switch and lever would only be relevant for a conventional rear wheel drive vehicle without a transfer case. Even with the transmission in park, if the transfer case is in neutral the vehicle should be able to move. I'm uncertain if the centre diff lock affects this without seeing a diagram of the transfer case. Probably not, but I would unlock the centre diff to be sure.
 

Jean Mercier

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@Virginie

(translation follows)
Ce weekend j’ai fait l’essai de bouger ma voiture en vissant dans le sens des aiguilles d’une montre la « vis de point mort » de la boîte de transfert, à peu près 30 quarts de tour.
Ceci est expliqué dans le manuel vers la page 85 (dépendant de la version du manuel).

20240512_112624.jpg

20240512_112555.jpg


En effet, une fois vissée à fond je suis parvenu a pousser librement ma voiture, sans même mettre ma clé dans le contact. (Ne pas faire cela dans des circonstances réelles, car le volant se bloque !).
Je n’ai donc pas dû utiliser le fameux levier que vous mentionnez.

Après avoir dévissé dans le sens contraire la vis, et remis le contact à ma voiture j’avais le message que j’étais engagé dans la position LOW (bas) (ce qui n’était pas le cas) et lors du démarrage et mise en vitesse il y eu un très court bruit de cliquetis, probablement les roues dentées qui n’étaient pas en position, et ensuite tout fonctionnait comme auparavant.

A mon avis les possibilités suivantes ont provoqué votre problème de « non roulement libre » :
  • La vis n’a pas été vissée à fond
  • ou le dépanneur ne savait pas que cela était la procédure à suivre
J’espère qu’entre-temps le garage a diagnostiqué la panne.

(translation by Google)
This weekend I tried moving my car by turning the “neutral screw” of the transfer case clockwise, about 30 quarter turns.
This is explained in the manual around page 85 (depending on the manual version).
Indeed, once screwed in all the way, I managed to push my car freely, without even putting my key in the ignition. (Do not do this in real circumstances, as the steering wheel will lock!).
So I didn't have to use the famous lever you mention.
After unscrewing the screw in the opposite direction, and turning the ignition back on to my car I got the message that I was engaged in the LOW position (which was not the case) and when starting and restarting in gear there was a very short rattling noise, probably the gears were out of position, and then everything worked as before.
In my opinion the following possibilities caused your “not free rolling” problem:
1. The screw was not tightened all the way
2. or the repairman did not know that this was the procedure to follow
I hope that the garage has diagnosed the fault in the meantime.
 

Eric

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@Virginie

(translation follows)
Ce weekend j’ai fait l’essai de bouger ma voiture en vissant dans le sens des aiguilles d’une montre la « vis de point mort » de la boîte de transfert, à peu près 30 quarts de tour.
Ceci est expliqué dans le manuel vers la page 85 (dépendant de la version du manuel).

View attachment 7856854
View attachment 7856855

En effet, une fois vissée à fond je suis parvenu a pousser librement ma voiture, sans même mettre ma clé dans le contact. (Ne pas faire cela dans des circonstances réelles, car le volant se bloque !).
Je n’ai donc pas dû utiliser le fameux levier que vous mentionnez.

Après avoir dévissé dans le sens contraire la vis, et remis le contact à ma voiture j’avais le message que j’étais engagé dans la position LOW (bas) (ce qui n’était pas le cas) et lors du démarrage et mise en vitesse il y eu un très court bruit de cliquetis, probablement les roues dentées qui n’étaient pas en position, et ensuite tout fonctionnait comme auparavant.

A mon avis les possibilités suivantes ont provoqué votre problème de « non roulement libre » :
  • La vis n’a pas été vissée à fond
  • ou le dépanneur ne savait pas que cela était la procédure à suivre
J’espère qu’entre-temps le garage a diagnostiqué la panne.

(translation by Google)
This weekend I tried moving my car by turning the “neutral screw” of the transfer case clockwise, about 30 quarter turns.
This is explained in the manual around page 85 (depending on the manual version).
Indeed, once screwed in all the way, I managed to push my car freely, without even putting my key in the ignition. (Do not do this in real circumstances, as the steering wheel will lock!).
So I didn't have to use the famous lever you mention.
After unscrewing the screw in the opposite direction, and turning the ignition back on to my car I got the message that I was engaged in the LOW position (which was not the case) and when starting and restarting in gear there was a very short rattling noise, probably the gears were out of position, and then everything worked as before.
In my opinion the following possibilities caused your “not free rolling” problem:
1. The screw was not tightened all the way
2. or the repairman did not know that this was the procedure to follow
I hope that the garage has diagnosed the fault in the meantime.
I'm more impressed that you were able to freely push a 3 Tonne vehicle 😉
 

Virginie

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@Virginie

(translation follows)
Ce weekend j’ai fait l’essai de bouger ma voiture en vissant dans le sens des aiguilles d’une montre la « vis de point mort » de la boîte de transfert, à peu près 30 quarts de tour.
Ceci est expliqué dans le manuel vers la page 85 (dépendant de la version du manuel).

View attachment 7856854
View attachment 7856855

En effet, une fois vissée à fond je suis parvenu a pousser librement ma voiture, sans même mettre ma clé dans le contact. (Ne pas faire cela dans des circonstances réelles, car le volant se bloque !).
Je n’ai donc pas dû utiliser le fameux levier que vous mentionnez.

Après avoir dévissé dans le sens contraire la vis, et remis le contact à ma voiture j’avais le message que j’étais engagé dans la position LOW (bas) (ce qui n’était pas le cas) et lors du démarrage et mise en vitesse il y eu un très court bruit de cliquetis, probablement les roues dentées qui n’étaient pas en position, et ensuite tout fonctionnait comme auparavant.

A mon avis les possibilités suivantes ont provoqué votre problème de « non roulement libre » :
  • La vis n’a pas été vissée à fond
  • ou le dépanneur ne savait pas que cela était la procédure à suivre
J’espère qu’entre-temps le garage a diagnostiqué la panne.

(translation by Google)
This weekend I tried moving my car by turning the “neutral screw” of the transfer case clockwise, about 30 quarter turns.
This is explained in the manual around page 85 (depending on the manual version).
Indeed, once screwed in all the way, I managed to push my car freely, without even putting my key in the ignition. (Do not do this in real circumstances, as the steering wheel will lock!).
So I didn't have to use the famous lever you mention.
After unscrewing the screw in the opposite direction, and turning the ignition back on to my car I got the message that I was engaged in the LOW position (which was not the case) and when starting and restarting in gear there was a very short rattling noise, probably the gears were out of position, and then everything worked as before.
In my opinion the following possibilities caused your “not free rolling” problem:
1. The screw was not tightened all the way
2. or the repairman did not know that this was the procedure to follow
I hope that the garage has diagnosed the fault in the meantime.
Bonjour Jean et encore un grand remerciement pour vos recherches et informations.
Nous avons récupérer notre Grenadier.
Leur diagnostic est une prise qui alimente la pompe à carburant qui était deconnectée.....
Outre cette panne, nous devrons y retourner pour plusieurs petits soucis techniques : fuite clim, treuil qui n'a jamais voulu fonctionner, snorkel à étanchéifier et à fixer correctement, TPMS ; bref rien de bien grave et l'on se doutait que l'on essuyerai quelques platres 🤣
Concernant notre remorquage avec levier de vitesse verrouillé en Park, le technicien Inéos nous a bien confirmé que nous devions déconnecter la boite DE VITESSE avec ce petit levier sous la caisse. Il n'existe pas d'outil magique ; lui, il utilise un cintre en métal et une sangle mais il avoue que ce n'est pas simple de tirer et maintenir ce levier.....
Pas de mise à jour à faire sur notre véhicule et aujourdhui il nous a fait 2 farces : " pile télécommande faible" puis " Ecall" ; juste quelques secondes puis les messages ont disparus 🫡
Bref, tout va bien et nous sommes heureux de pouvoir à nouveau l'utiliser 👍

(Google traduction : )
We have recovered our Grenadier.

Their diagnosis is a plug that feeds the fuel pump which was disconnected..... 🤞

In addition to this breakdown, we will have to go back for several small technical problems: air conditioning leak, winch that never wanted to work, snorkel to be sealed and fixed correctly, TPMS; in short, nothing too serious and we suspected that we would wipe off a few plasters 🤣

Concerning our towing with the gear lever locked in Park, the Inéos technician confirmed to us that we had to disconnect the GEAR box with this small lever under the body. There is no magic tool; He uses a metal hanger and a strap but he admits that it is not easy to pull and hold this lever.....

No update to do on our vehicle and today he played 2 pranks on us: "low remote control battery" then "Ecall"; just a few seconds then the messages disappeared

In short, everything is fine and we are happy to be able to use it again ✌️
 

Jean Mercier

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Concernant notre remorquage avec levier de vitesse verrouillé en Park, le technicien Inéos nous a bien confirmé que nous devions déconnecter la boite DE VITESSE avec ce petit levier sous la caisse. Il n'existe pas d'outil magique ; lui, il utilise un cintre en métal et une sangle mais il avoue que ce n'est pas simple de tirer et maintenir ce levier.....
Mes excuses d'insister, mais je reste perplexe: est-ce que le boulon que je (et d'autres) mentionnent avait bel et bien été vissé à fond?

Google translate ....
My apologies for insisting, but I remain perplexed: had the bolt I (and others) mentioned actually been screwed all the way in?
 

Virginie

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Je crois même qu'il a dit qu'il était inutile de toucher à ce boulon de la boîte de transfert, qu'il suffisait d'actionner ce levier de la boîte de vitesse. 🤔


Traduction Google :
Je pense même qu'il a dit que ça ne servait à rien de toucher ce boulon de la boîte de transfert, il suffisait de tirer ce levier de la boîte de vitesses. 🤔
 

jucumari

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Here is a link to my related ongoing issue. I have no electrical power, no way to shift into Neutral, and unsuccessfully attempted to use the Neutral bolt turning method to put the car into Neutral in order to have it towed to the Ineos dealer on a flatbed tow truck. Cross posting here in case others are encountering similar issues.

No screen and multiple alarms - update 30OCT24 (theineosforum.com)
 
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