Europe Order cancelled

[emax]

Disappointed but thats life

I understand your decision. It's consequent and deserves respect.

What Ineos delivers in terms of support and reliability still sucks. I'm fortunate in that I don't "need" the car at any given time. But although I have had many tests of patience in my life, they (Ineos) are approaching a point where I will start thinking about pulling the plug.

Their biggest asset is the car, and in my case, that car is part of a dream I've had for 45 years. But if they gamble away this asset, there will simply come a point when even i will be fed up. And they are not infinitely far away from that, especially when I see that others have already made their decision.

I am really sorry for you. But other fathers have pretty daughters, too. And maybe I should start looking at them a bit more. Even if my Grenadier comes in summer, for example, I'm worried about the political situation in Germany and in the EU. It might -overnight- all of a sudden just be too expensive to register a new car, a diesel, with > 300 g Co2/km. They do such things overnight, as we saw recently with the new VAT on silver as a precious invenstment metal: The law was published Friday night at 18:00 "effective immediately". And Monday, October 3rd was a holiday in Germany.

That was a plan, planned down to the hour. A plan that could also catch us Grenadier buyers at any time with a registration tax around 30,000 Euros. No, I am not kidding.

And that's why I'm increasingly brassed off with the uncertainty and Ineos' silence in the woods. And even worse with what they call "customer support" and "communication".

Sir Jim needs a whistleblower. Urgently!

 

[Shaky]

It’s to do with being a low volume producer. This article relates to EU volumes but I think those UK figures you quoted sound about right.

Why van versions of the Ineos Grenadier help with CO2 rules | Autocar

By offering a commercial variant from the off, Ineos has boxed clever with EU and UK emissions regs

www.autocar.co.uk

Yes this is exactly how it was explained to me that being a low volume car company has some perks it also has a few restrictions. I wasn’t aware of the sales restrictions on “types” of vehicles until last week.

 

[ECrider]

I’m with you. As for logs I’ll be doing the same. We rely on wood burners to keep warm so plenty of logs are needed. I’m going to make up a ply box lining I can side in out for when filled up with logs and or tree saplings, plants, chainsaws and other equipment. Keeping it in reasonable nick for travels.

that's a very good idea, never thought of a slide in and out ply fix

 

[Logsplitter]

It’s to do with being a low volume producer. This article relates to EU volumes but I think those UK figures you quoted sound about right.

Why van versions of the Ineos Grenadier help with CO2 rules | Autocar

By offering a commercial variant from the off, Ineos has boxed clever with EU and UK emissions regs

www.autocar.co.uk

OK as I read all of the article. According to this reticle Ineos can sell 6000 vehicles per year in UK 1700 cars and 4300 N1 commercial

 

[TonyHerts]

I understand your decision. It's consequent and deserves respect.

What Ineos delivers in terms of support and reliability is still real shit. I am lucky not to 'need' the car at a certain date. But even though I have had many patience exams in my live, they (Ineos) are approaching an edge were I will start to think about pulling the plug.

Their biggest asset is the car, and in my case, that car is part of a dream I've had for 45 years. But if they gamble away this asset, there will simply come a point when even i will be fed up. And they are not infinitely far away from that, especially when I see that others have already made their decision.

I am really sorry for you. But other fathers have pretty daughters, too. And maybe I should start worrying about them slowly. Even if my Grenadier comes in summer, for example, I'm worried about the political situation in Germany and in the EU. It might -overnight- all of a sudden just be too expensive to register a new car, a diesel, with > 300 g Co2/km. They do such things overnight, as we saw recently with the new VAT on silver as a precious invenstment metal: The law was published Friday night at 18:00 "effective immediately". And Monday, October 3 was a holiday in Germany.

That was a plan, planned down to the hour. A plan that could also catch us Grenadier buyers at any time with a registration tax around 30,000 Euros. No, I am not kidding.

And that's why I'm increasingly brassed off with the uncertainty and Ineos' silence in the woods. And even worse with what they call "customer support" and "communication".

Sir Jim needs a whistleblower. Urgently!

Thanks emax. As I say, think the vehicle looks great. Drove 110s and old lightweight SWB LRs in the Army and liked the defender, did the LR off road course, but never really wanted to live with one day to day . Shame it’s got to this esp as they have now admitted they messed up. But that’s life - it’s only a car, albeit potentially a cool one

 

[Shaky]

My father used to say " they reckon"
As in they reckon taxes are going up
They reckon they government is going to lose the next election
I used to ask him "who are they dad?"

In this case “they” are the UK government who make the rules and “they” who reckon there is a cap on sales of vehicle types is an Ineos Agent.

However I do agree that in general “they” seem to reckon a lot about most things in life without anyone knowing who “they” are.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Sir Jim needs a whistleblower. Urgently!

Indeed! I agree completely!

 

[Shaky]

Thanks emax. As I say, think the vehicle looks great. Drove 110s and old lightweight SWB LRs in the Army and always fancied a defender , and did the KR off road course, but never really wanted to live with one day to day . Shame it’s got to this esp as they have now admitted they messed up. But that’s life - it’s only a car, albeit potentially a cool one

I totally respect your decision on this. It’s your money and your decision and with both you do what you feel is right. In a sense we are all playing Russian roulette here with a sizeable chunk of money, but we have all probably thought it through and tried to work out the possibilities around a new company and made our own decisions.

The most sensible statement you have made there and I don’t think anyone could disagree with “it’s only a car”.

 

[Tazzieman]

My father used to say " they reckon"
As in they reckon taxes are going up
They reckon they government is going to lose the next election
I used to ask him "who are they dad?"

I reckon he was a wise fellow

 

[globalgregors]

That’s a purely subjective and personal decision and there was no criticism of your own position. Nobody has a gun to our collective heads to buy one and only time will tell if it’s money thrown away or not.

Yes, I think the marketing is insightful in that respect. It is after all what makes a 'vanguard'.
We are pretty much volunteering to expose and dimension the problems you're concerned about in your note.

But this is a task not for everyone and not needed by the main body of future customers, whose risk appetite might be different.

One hopes that on the other side of these commissioning challenges is a product and service organisation that you can trust, in which case see you @TonyHerts at the wheels and coffee at some point!

 

[tnkatoy]

There have been so many inconsistencies and communication issues, that my wife is understandably concerned about spending this much on a car where the support has been so dubious, and she isn’t alone there, as she says, If it’s this bad now, what will it be like when owners start to need post-delivery support?

Unfortunately, she is waiting to be advised of the build date for a Toyota she has ordered, so she has a direct comparison. Even with Toyota’s established reputation as one of the biggest and most reliable marques globally, the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent, something she keeps being able to take embarrassing digs at me about. She also makes a point of wearing the cap Toyota sent her for Christmas, as a 'thank you for being patient', and she only ordered it in December 22.

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets. There were a few Ineos staff to provide verbal information about the vehicle, no ability to change our specification there, staff give us wrong information about how to make changes, no merchandise, toilets hadn’t been unlocked, no brochures, no information boards … her list of failures goes on. Suffice it so say, the event only reinforced her lack of confidence in Ineos, but she did like the car though.

The only comfort I have been able to give her is that at least the design and development were largely outsourced, it’s a Mercedes built factory and trained staff, and some of the more critical components, like the engine and drivetrain, aren’t ‘Ineos’, and BMW does have a solid reputation.

She still isn’t comfortable with me buying the Grenadier though … I hope I’m right !

 

[DCPU]

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets.

at least the design and development were largely outsourced

From what I've been reading all of the event stuff is outsourced. OK a few Ineos employees but nearly everyone else, including the drivers are all external.

 

[DaveB]

There have been so many inconsistencies and communication issues, that my wife is understandably concerned about spending this much on a car where the support has been so dubious, and she isn’t alone there, as she says, If it’s this bad now, what will it be like when owners start to need post-delivery support?

Unfortunately, she is waiting to be advised of the build date for a Toyota she has ordered, so she has a direct comparison. Even with Toyota’s established reputation as one of the biggest and most reliable marques globally, the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent, something she keeps being able to take embarrassing digs at me about. She also makes a point of wearing the cap Toyota sent her for Christmas, as a 'thank you for being patient', and she only ordered it in December 22.

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets. There were a few Ineos staff to provide verbal information about the vehicle, no ability to change our specification there, staff give us wrong information about how to make changes, no merchandise, toilets hadn’t been unlocked, no brochures, no information boards … her list of failures goes on. Suffice it so say, the event only reinforced her lack of confidence in Ineos, but she did like the car though.

The only comfort I have been able to give her is that at least the design and development were largely outsourced, it’s a Mercedes built factory and trained staff, and some of the more critical components, like the engine and drivetrain, aren’t ‘Ineos’, and BMW does have a solid reputation.

She still isn’t comfortable with me buying the Grenadier though … I hope I’m right !

I went to Tamborine and I was very happy with it.
Toilets were fine
Drinks and nibbles were ok
When I arrived in the carpark they waved and said hi Dave
When I was leaving Neil called out that I still owed him a beer.
No glitz or glamour just a welcoming down to earth event.
The Perth drive was pretty much the same except the coffee was from a coffee van and was much better

 

[To]

There have been so many inconsistencies and communication issues, that my wife is understandably concerned about spending this much on a car where the support has been so dubious, and she isn’t alone there, as she says, If it’s this bad now, what will it be like when owners start to need post-delivery support?

Unfortunately, she is waiting to be advised of the build date for a Toyota she has ordered, so she has a direct comparison. Even with Toyota’s established reputation as one of the biggest and most reliable marques globally, the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent, something she keeps being able to take embarrassing digs at me about. She also makes a point of wearing the cap Toyota sent her for Christmas, as a 'thank you for being patient', and she only ordered it in December 22.

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets. There were a few Ineos staff to provide verbal information about the vehicle, no ability to change our specification there, staff give us wrong information about how to make changes, no merchandise, toilets hadn’t been unlocked, no brochures, no information boards … her list of failures goes on. Suffice it so say, the event only reinforced her lack of confidence in Ineos, but she did like the car though.

The only comfort I have been able to give her is that at least the design and development were largely outsourced, it’s a Mercedes built factory and trained staff, and some of the more critical components, like the engine and drivetrain, aren’t ‘Ineos’, and BMW does have a solid reputation.

She still isn’t comfortable with me buying the Grenadier though … I hope I’m right !

The organization of my driving day was perfect. There was everything that was needed.

 

[klarie]

There have been so many inconsistencies and communication issues, that my wife is understandably concerned about spending this much on a car where the support has been so dubious, and she isn’t alone there, as she says, If it’s this bad now, what will it be like when owners start to need post-delivery support?

Unfortunately, she is waiting to be advised of the build date for a Toyota she has ordered, so she has a direct comparison. Even with Toyota’s established reputation as one of the biggest and most reliable marques globally, the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent, something she keeps being able to take embarrassing digs at me about. She also makes a point of wearing the cap Toyota sent her for Christmas, as a 'thank you for being patient', and she only ordered it in December 22.

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets. There were a few Ineos staff to provide verbal information about the vehicle, no ability to change our specification there, staff give us wrong information about how to make changes, no merchandise, toilets hadn’t been unlocked, no brochures, no information boards … her list of failures goes on. Suffice it so say, the event only reinforced her lack of confidence in Ineos, but she did like the car though.

The only comfort I have been able to give her is that at least the design and development were largely outsourced, it’s a Mercedes built factory and trained staff, and some of the more critical components, like the engine and drivetrain, aren’t ‘Ineos’, and BMW does have a solid reputation.

She still isn’t comfortable with me buying the Grenadier though … I hope I’m right !

Hm, we were at a drive day with Ineos, organized by Krah & Enders a very large BMW dealer in the state of Hesse /Germany. (My dad worked there as the company was quite small in the early 1960s .. now quite professional. What we experienced was very professional.
Lavatories, catering, merchandise, experienced staff, brochures .. so it depends. Any call /question I had was answered immediately.

To be serious - according to what I was told at the event. at that time did not place an order. The guys there mentioned - When I order now .. I have to expect a time to deliver September / October 2023!!
So order only once I ve seen the vehicle in real life, sat in it and driven it. (not necessary on road but somewhere) See design and perhaps flaws.
So I placed the order shortly after the event.

In December - Just for curiosity I rang up Krah & Enders - and told them my order number. - So this one was scheduled already for March. (So the batch of vehicles that is manufactured depend on certain options that were set and what country and.. certain vehicles come earlier - some later depending and equipment.
So for that.. to me it doesn't matter.. my patience was set for late 2023.. anything earlier is a positive surprise.

What I like the way Ineos designed the vehicle is mostly "of the shelf" automotive supplier equipment. The number of IG special parts are limited. That is an advantage.
Toyota I considered.. but I do not trust the local Toyota dealers neither I trust Toyota as a company (But this is a political issue as they are sponsoring a so called environmental / lobbying organization and claiming to be a super clean automotive vendor - in fact they aren't)
- There are two major Toyota Dealers .. one in visual range from my office (if I am there at all)

The main reason why I ordered the Grenadier - I want one - and is the closest matching my demands.

 

[globalgregors]

Hm, we were at a drive day with Ineos, organized by Krah & Enders a very large BMW dealer in the state of Hesse /Germany. (My dad worked there as the company was quite small in the early 1960s .. now quite professional. What we experienced was very professional.
Lavatories, catering, merchandise, experienced staff, brochures .. so it depends. Any call /question I had was answered immediately.

To be serious - according to what I was told at the event. at that time did not place an order. The guys there mentioned - When I order now .. I have to expect a time to deliver September / October 2023!!
So order only once I ve seen the vehicle in real life, sat in it and driven it. (not necessary on road but somewhere) See design and perhaps flaws.
So I placed the order shortly after the event.

In December - Just for curiosity I rang up Krah & Enders - and told them my order number. - So this one was scheduled already for March. (So the batch of vehicles that is manufactured depend on certain options that were set and what country and.. certain vehicles come earlier - some later depending and equipment.
So for that.. to me it doesn't matter.. my patience was set for late 2023.. anything earlier is a positive surprise.

What I like the way Ineos designed the vehicle is mostly "of the shelf" automotive supplier equipment. The number of IG special parts are limited. That is an advantage.
Toyota I considered.. but I do not trust the local Toyota dealers neither I trust Toyota as a company (But this is a political issue as they are sponsoring a so called environmental / lobbying organization and claiming to be a super clean automotive vendor - in fact they aren't)
- There are two major Toyota Dealers .. one in visual range from my office (if I am there at all)

The main reason why I ordered the Grenadier - I want one - and is the closest matching my demands.

Indeed when it comes to low emissions vehicles vs ICE etc, Toyota appears to have a punt on every horse in the Derby.

 

[Oscar01]

Well I understand TonyHerts perfectly I already expressed it in my post I'm starting to worry.

I think it is not normal that they tell you that on Monday they will send you the contract and on Friday you don't know anything, not a call, not an email, it is not normal, if I treated my clients like that I assure you that I would be in the unemployment line.

If right now in the phase of commercial attention they are a complete disaster, what can I expect from the after sales service?

I am more and more disillusioned.

Patience, as well as illusion, can end up being lost.

 

[haigo]

My order story is quite different

Reservation on 30.09.2021. The final specifications and prices are published on 28.04.2022.
In the brochure "INEOS Grenadier_Digi Brochure_German_FINAL.pdf" it says about consumption:
STATION WAGON (BELSTAFF EDITIONS) diesel 12.9-15.1 gasoline 10.1-11.7 ltr/100km.

On 18.05.2022 I ordered the Grenadier with gasoline engine and transferred the further deposit.

The delivery date was scheduled for 19.09.2022. Several times I then inquired about the purchase contract or the binding order.
In the meantime, it turned out that the consumption of the engines had been mixed up.

The consumption for the diesel engine was suddenly given as 11.2 l/100km.
In numerous e-mails and phone calls I tried to change my order. Unfortunately without success.
I only saw the possibilty to cancel the order and place a new order with the correct (diesel) engine.

On the day of 07.11.2022 I requested a refund of the reservation fee and the deposit at 13:24. Two hours later I received the Ineos Grenadier Contract.
Of course in the gasoline variant and instead of 'Donny Grey (Metallic)' the color had changed to 'Sela Green (Solid)'

Ineos had announced a processing time of up to 14 days for the refund so I was amazed that the two amounts then already arrived on 11.11.2022 on my account.
So immediately visited the homepage of Ineos to order the already configured Grenadier in the diesel variant.

Unfortunately this was not possible. Both, the configuration page and the order page were not accessible (due to maintenance).
I then had to learn that the maintenance work affected the prices.

In the meantime, the price of the basic Grenadier Fieldmaster Edition has increased by 6.240,00€ from 68.990,00€ to 75.230,00€.
And all this only because I could not change the configuration neither by e-mail nor by phone and there is no direct contact person for problems.

My enthusiasm for the project turned into total disappointment.
I could have easily placed a second order with the correct configuration and then canceled the first order. But the customer service assured me: You don't have to!

Of course, I then ordered my configuration. Unfortunately, because of my size, there are not so many alternatives to the Grenadier.


That is my story with my beloved Grenadier ...

 

[globalgregors]

Well I understand TonyHerts perfectly I already expressed it in my post I'm starting to worry.

I think it is not normal that they tell you that on Monday they will send you the contract and on Friday you don't know anything, not a call, not an email, it is not normal, if I treated my clients like that I assure you that I would be in the unemployment line.

If right now in the phase of commercial attention they are a complete disaster, what can I expect from the after sales service?

I am more and more disillusioned.

Patience, as well as illusion, can end up being lost.

Respectfully, there is no reason to be burdened with anxiety about what the future brand experience will be… let the early adopters take the risk and sign up once the box has been opened and you can ascertain whether the cat is alive or dead. 12 or 18 months should be enough and then you’ll know.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Respectfully, there is no reason to be burdened with anxiety ...

I agree with this! At least when your configuration known by Ineos is what you want (my case, but I made some changes in September at my dealers place. A "small" add-on I asked for in December wasn't possible anymore).
But, the lack of customer support, the mistakes, the lack of global communication, contradictions, promises without any further feedback, etc. shows a total disrespect for customers.