Europe Order cancelled

[TonyHerts]

After a massively frustrating experience with Ineos over the last six weeks, I have cancelled my order. I had ordered a standard vehicle and wanted to change the spec to a belstaff with a few extras. They seem to think I had ordered a commercial vehicle but I hadn't. I have a PDF of the original spec to prove it

Every Ineos person I have spoken to over the last week has told me something different and my dealer was sent the email below this morning with a vastly different delivery date. . He is actually trying to be helpful. The car may look interesting but the sales, ordering, website, and client service process are not fit for purpose.

I hope somebody from ineos reads these forums. Looks like a decent car, but the company is not fit for purpose. If this is what the ordering process is like, what will warranty claims, after sales, servicing, be like

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Mr XXXXX initial order was for a 5-Seat Commercial UW and he contacted customer services in Jul-22 to request a change to the specification. The partner portal PDF is showing a 5-Seat Commercial UG Fieldmaster Trim – an option not possible in the UK market and the result of a mistake made during the recent amends which were requested and actioned.


The most recent specification which was sent through by Mr XXX was for a 5-Seat Belstaff Fieldmaster vehicle with some additional options. It is not possible from a system limitation perspective to change between vehicle derivatives. However, we recognise that had the customer been informed in July by customer services that derivative changes are not possible, he would have been able to cancel and reorder under the old pricing however with an impact to his production slot.

We therefore have two options.

1. Keep the 5-Seat Commercial vehicle and amend the specification to the required options.
2. Cancel the current order and place a new order for a Belstaff Fieldmaster derivative with the desired options. If this option is selected, and as a one off, we would update the order on our end by applying the old pricing structure and look to bring it forward in the production plan. Other customers in this position prior to the price increase were told that they would need to reorder but that they would go to the back of the order queue. We will try and bring the customer forward as close as possible to the customers current production slot however anticipate that this would be June-July delivery at the earliest. If this is the option the customer would like to proceed with, please could you let us know the new order new order number so that we can action the above and cancel the old order.

 

[Trialmaster]

Tony

I totally agree with your sentiments. Your concerns after the car is actually delivered worry me also. My local agent has only ever contacted me once. Never told me about the vehicles they have had in their showroom or about two local drives; One passenger and the other as a driver.

Plus, delivery - when that will be is anyone's guess. I'm told February, but the website doesn't even mention production yet, when I like many others were told: 13 January. If I cancel I loose my deposit.

Frustrating, in what looks like a great vehicle.

 

[Beormund]

After a massively frustrating experience with Ineos over the last six weeks, I have cancelled my order. I had ordered a standard vehicle and wanted to change the spec to a belstaff with a few extras. They seem to think I had ordered a commercial vehicle but I hadn't. I have a PDF of the original spec to prove it

Every Ineos person I have spoken to over the last week has told me something different and my dealer was sent the email below this morning with a vastly different delivery date. . He is actually trying to be helpful. The car may look interesting but the sales, ordering, website, and client service process are not fit for purpose.

I hope somebody from ineos reads these forums. Looks like a decent car, but the company is not fit for purpose. If this is what the ordering process is like, what will warranty claims, after sales, servicing, be like

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr XXXXX initial order was for a 5-Seat Commercial UW and he contacted customer services in Jul-22 to request a change to the specification. The partner portal PDF is showing a 5-Seat Commercial UG Fieldmaster Trim – an option not possible in the UK market and the result of a mistake made during the recent amends which were requested and actioned.


The most recent specification which was sent through by Mr XXX was for a 5-Seat Belstaff Fieldmaster vehicle with some additional options. It is not possible from a system limitation perspective to change between vehicle derivatives. However, we recognise that had the customer been informed in July by customer services that derivative changes are not possible, he would have been able to cancel and reorder under the old pricing however with an impact to his production slot.

We therefore have two options.

1. Keep the 5-Seat Commercial vehicle and amend the specification to the required options.
2. Cancel the current order and place a new order for a Belstaff Fieldmaster derivative with the desired options. If this option is selected, and as a one off, we would update the order on our end by applying the old pricing structure and look to bring it forward in the production plan. Other customers in this position prior to the price increase were told that they would need to reorder but that they would go to the back of the order queue. We will try and bring the customer forward as close as possible to the customers current production slot however anticipate that this would be June-July delivery at the earliest. If this is the option the customer would like to proceed with, please could you let us know the new order new order number so that we can action the above and cancel the old order.

It is a legitimate concern - one which my partner has raised repeatedly during recent weeks. If this is how the service is now; what will it be like post sale?

 

[TonyHerts]

After a massively frustrating experience with Ineos over the last six weeks, I have cancelled my order. I had ordered a standard vehicle and wanted to change the spec to a belstaff with a few extras. They seem to think I had ordered a commercial vehicle but I hadn't. I have a PDF of the original spec to prove it

Every Ineos person I have spoken to over the last week has told me something different and my dealer was sent the email below this morning with a vastly different delivery date. . He is actually trying to be helpful. The car may look interesting but the sales, ordering, website, and client service process are not fit for purpose.

I hope somebody from ineos reads these forums. Looks like a decent car, but the company is not fit for purpose. If this is what the ordering process is like, what will warranty claims, after sales, servicing, be like

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr XXXXX initial order was for a 5-Seat Commercial UW and he contacted customer services in Jul-22 to request a change to the specification. The partner portal PDF is showing a 5-Seat Commercial UG Fieldmaster Trim – an option not possible in the UK market and the result of a mistake made during the recent amends which were requested and actioned.


The most recent specification which was sent through by Mr XXX was for a 5-Seat Belstaff Fieldmaster vehicle with some additional options. It is not possible from a system limitation perspective to change between vehicle derivatives. However, we recognise that had the customer been informed in July by customer services that derivative changes are not possible, he would have been able to cancel and reorder under the old pricing however with an impact to his production slot.

We therefore have two options.

1. Keep the 5-Seat Commercial vehicle and amend the specification to the required options.
2. Cancel the current order and place a new order for a Belstaff Fieldmaster derivative with the desired options. If this option is selected, and as a one off, we would update the order on our end by applying the old pricing structure and look to bring it forward in the production plan. Other customers in this position prior to the price increase were told that they would need to reorder but that they would go to the back of the order queue. We will try and bring the customer forward as close as possible to the customers current production slot however anticipate that this would be June-July delivery at the earliest. If this is the option the customer would like to proceed with, please could you let us know the new order new order number so that we can action the above and cancel the old order.

This is what I emailed the dealer - and for the avoidance of doubt they have been decent (Simon Canney @Gerrards Cross)

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Thank you for your email and your efforts on my behalf. In eight months of dealing with Ineos you have provided the most clarity. A few points:

• I didn't order a commercial vehicle. I ordered a standard vehicle with lots of extras
• My change in spec was due to working out that ordering a Belfstaff was actually cheaper. Not sure I want the sunroof but otherwise it works out a better deal financially
• It seems that a change from either a commercial vehicle (which I didn't order) to a Belstaff means I lose my build slot and have a car at July 'at the earliest'. This is unacceptable.
• I have spoken to quite a few people at Ineos to try and sort out where we are and everyone has said something different
• The last person I spoke to would not accept that I hadn't ordered a commercial vehicle or that they were in any way at fault. That tipped me over the edge.

Other than your help, the service has been shocking, esp the people I have spoken to this week. I don't have much confidence in their service to clients and if this is how ordering works, I'm concerned about after sales, warranty etc.

Given the above, I think purchasing a car from Ineos at the point might be reckless and therefore I have asked for a refund. Pretty disappointed to be honest.

Thanks for trying to help. Good luck with working with Ineos

Feel free to share this with them

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

I agree that IA are struggling with customer service and that it’s very frustrating. That said, they’re launching a new vehicle and everything else that goes with it, which includes all the upfront administrative and processes as well as sale, post sale and warranty. I’ve had a very similar experience to you but decided to “suck it up” and compromise where errors have been made. Like many of the others in this parish, I’ve followed grenadier from the start, put my money in as early as possible and, all things being equal, may get my own in the next few weeks. I’m probably being naive but I’m putting it down to being part of something and hopefully all the frustrations will evaporate the moment I turn the key, turn the heated seats on and engage “drive”..

 

[beanohallett]

It is a legitimate concern - one which my partner has raised repeatedly during recent weeks. If this is how the service is now; what will it be like post sale?

I would say it has shades of Delorean all about it, but hope not.....

 

[TonyHerts]

I agree that IA are struggling with customer service and that it’s very frustrating. That said, they’re launching a new vehicle and everything else that goes with it, which includes all the upfront administrative and processes as well as sale, post sale and warranty. I’ve had a very similar experience to you but decided to “suck it up” and compromise where errors have been made. Like many of the others in this parish, I’ve followed grenadier from the start, put my money in as early as possible and, all things being equal, may get my own in the next few weeks. I’m probably being naive but I’m putting it down to being part of something and hopefully all the frustrations will evaporate the moment I turn the key, turn the heated seats on and engage “drive”..

I'm not sure that for the best part if £70k, I should have to suck it up

 

[klarie]

@TonyHerts
You ordered a standard station wagon? I am wondering that these in UK could be ordered. - In Germany at our selection of vehicles
there were 2 seat and 5 seat utility ( to be considered as commercial) w. rear panel instead of window -
and all station wagons with Window at rear to be ordered where Belstaff Editions . Either or .. TrailMaster and Fieldmaster.
A "standard station wagon" to be configured with "on demand" equipment was not selectable - and as far as I can see can still not be ordered.
Something strange in the neighbourhood.

 

[Chris]

I would say it has shades of Delorean all about it, but hope not.....

Except it's us that's on the drugs, thinking we'll get a motor any time soon!

 

[TonyHerts]

@TonyHerts
You ordered a standard station wagon? I am wondering that these were in UK could be ordered. - In Germany at our selection of vehicles
there were 2 seat and 5 seat utility ( to be considered as commercial) w. rear panel instead of window -
and all station wagons with Window at rear to be ordered where Belstaff Editions . Either or .. TrailMaster and Fieldmaster.
A "standard station wagen to be configured with "on demand" equipment was not - and as far as I can see can still not be ordered.
Something strange in the neighbourhood.

Good point - I thought that. it looks like from their original email that they admitted their was a problem with their website last year which might have confused things. I also have been asking them about this for months, starting last July

 

[Arkaig]

This is what I emailed the dealer - and for the avoidance of doubt they have been decent (Simon Canney @Gerrards Cross)

------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your email and your efforts on my behalf. In eight months of dealing with Ineos you have provided the most clarity. A few points:

• I didn't order a commercial vehicle. I ordered a standard vehicle with lots of extras
• My change in spec was due to working out that ordering a Belfstaff was actually cheaper. Not sure I want the sunroof but otherwise it works out a better deal financially
• It seems that a change from either a commercial vehicle (which I didn't order) to a Belstaff means I lose my build slot and have a car at July 'at the earliest'. This is unacceptable.
• I have spoken to quite a few people at Ineos to try and sort out where we are and everyone has said something different
• The last person I spoke to would not accept that I hadn't ordered a commercial vehicle or that they were in any way at fault. That tipped me over the edge.

Other than your help, the service has been shocking, esp the people I have spoken to this week. I don't have much confidence in their service to clients and if this is how ordering works, I'm concerned about after sales, warranty etc.

Given the above, I think purchasing a car from Ineos at the point might be reckless and therefore I have asked for a refund. Pretty disappointed to be honest.

Thanks for trying to help. Good luck with working with Ineos

Feel free to share this with them

In the UK, you cannot order a "standard" (ie non-Belstaff) vehicle without it being a commercial N1 vehicle, and that has been always been the case.

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

I'm not sure that for the best part if £70k, I should have to suck it up

That’s a purely subjective and personal decision and there was no criticism of your own position. Nobody has a gun to our collective heads to buy one and only time will tell if it’s money thrown away or not.

 

[TonyHerts]

That’s a purely subjective and personal decision and there was no criticism of your own position. Nobody has a gun to our collective heads to buy one and only time will tell if it’s money thrown away or not.

I agree

 

[TonyHerts]

In the UK, you cannot order a "standard" (ie non-Belstaff) vehicle without it being a commercial N1 vehicle., and that has been always been the case.

Right but I have been asking them to clarify this for six months and on their website the term used for the relevant model is Utility. Now they are mailing me to tell me I have ordered a commercial vehicle

 

[Lollo050968]

Total agree with the reasons to cancel the order. Our only reason not to do, is that the IG is additional for us, and that doesn‘t care about a few month later. If they choose too increase prices after such a long time or postpone again about 6 month, than we think about to cancel too. In the meanwhile they work with our Deposit…..

 

[DCPU]

I had ordered a standard vehicle and wanted to change the spec to a belstaff with a few extras. They seem to think I had ordered a commercial vehicle but I hadn't.

Unless you ordered a Belstaff edition (M1), then you were ordering a commercial vehicle(N1). That's the only choice we had in the UK from the start.

One of the confusions I'm aware of from the beginning is the Customer Services teams saying the headline prices included OTR costs (which are significantly higher for the M1) and only later said they were excluded.

 

[Arkaig]

Right but I have been asking them to clarify this for six months and on their website the term used for the relevant model is Utility. Now they are mailing me to tell me I have ordered a commercial vehicle

What is there to clarify? Anything other than a Belstaff is a commercial.

 

[DCPU]

Right but I have been asking them to clarify this for six months and on their website the term used for the relevant model is Utility. Now they are mailing me to tell me I have ordered a commercial vehicle

Utility Wagon = 2 seats
Station Wagon = 5 seats

Both are commercial.

I see them bending over to try and help you in the email, but hamstrung by systems and what does appear to be an obvious "user input error".

I guess it's easy done if you don't spend the hours studying all the detail. It wouldn't have happened if you'd been sat in a dealership filling your order out online with a salesman. So that's one obvious disadvantage of the buy online method.

 

[klarie]

What is there to clarify? Anything other than a Belstaff is a commercial.

+1 pretty obvious. That doesn't change my mind on Grenadier and Ineos.

Okay - at Ineos it takes longer as anticipated, also Ineos is new in automotive, supply chain issues etc. So what.
If they had to construct the entire factory in Wales from scratch it would require even more time to get a even a prototype from assembly line..
Ineos has some issues in administrative processes. Okay. - But .. sorry - here it seems the counterparty has also part in it- by not reading thoroughly.
Very strange indeed.

 

[G-Man]

What is there to clarify? Anything other than a Belstaff is a commercial.

This made sense to me at the time.

I've ordered a 'standard' SW (i.e. not Belstaff) and specced it to a Fieldmaster/Trailmaster equivalent without the unnecessary pluff. I'll have to live with the N1 classification and more upright rear seats but otherwise it's a win-win because the savings are considerable.