Multiple Landrover owner considering Ineos

[JGB5]

I suspect that the steering issue is just a matter of preference for the modern steering over "truck" steering. I certainly recall driving older trucks and the steering is strange. What I recall is that the Gren (thanks for the abbreviated version I was getting tired typing the whole thing) Steering damper is too stiff and that Agile Overland has a fix. I learned to drive in a VW bus long ago and I think that is also a recirculating ball. I loved my bus. Modern on road vehicles have the much smoother rack and pinion steering. So I hope I am prepared to feel that this weekend when I borrow my friends. Agile Overland described it as being so stiff that when you it deviates you have to correct it constantly and a softer dampener would fix it.

I do love to tinker and just reading about all this tinkering going on is pretty cool.

Of course articles like this don't help.

https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-ineos-grenadier-steering

As you read through The Drive article do not lose sight of the fact the writer's driving time with the Grenadier was, as he puts it, "limited to a short series of on- and off-road tests" at an "event." Once you've read several dozen Grenadier stories and reviews you'll realize the writer is simply regurgitating basic facts and basic fallacies. Instead, pay attention to the folks that have truly put the Grenadier to the test, such as Ronny Dahl, Scott Brady, and some on this forum.

As for the steering, no it's not going handle like the family car. It's not meant to and don't expect it to. If anything, on the highway I find it slightly heavy in initiating a turn of the steering wheel. As for tracking, straight as an arrow with ease. Ignore the melodramatic YouTube reviews of the driver ratcheting the steering wheel back and forth as if it's supposed to do something... or is it do nothing? I don't know. The point is it's steering fine, leave it alone.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Unfortunately yes. Completely made of plastic at the front. The corners at the back are made of steel.

I never knew that. I thought we all had the same thing. Are the UK spec bumpers the same as EU spec? So I suppose that also means you can’t swap your bumpers for aftermarket ones?

 

[DoubleDoom]

I never knew that. I thought we all had the same thing. Are the UK spec bumpers the same as EU spec? So I suppose that also means you can’t swap your bumpers for aftermarket ones?

Steel bumpers aren't really necessary in Europe. However, in the UK, you are largely free to install third-party alternatives, which can include steel bumpers. However, when having an MOT (annual check on the vehicle) anything that the MOT tester considers to be a danger to other road users can result in a fail. So, if its jagged edges or spikes then it would likely fail.

 

[rovie]

I never knew that. I thought we all had the same thing. Are the UK spec bumpers the same as EU spec? So I suppose that also means you can’t swap your bumpers for aftermarket ones?

In Germany I am not officially allowed to fit a steel bumper. I would definitely prefer it. When I ride through tall, hard weeds, I simply push them over with the Defender. I'm more careful with this Grenadier plastic bumper . There can always be a hard branch hidden away that crushes my bumper.

 

[Tinerfeño]

Steel bumpers aren't really necessary in Europe.

I have been in off-road twice in UK and onece in Germany, and possibly not.
But it depends on the locat terrain, here are some examples from Finland:

Also here in Tenerife there are boulders of lava hiding everywhere. When there is overgrowth you see this:

But after a fire it looks like this:

 

[MattA]

I have been in off-road twice in UK and onece in Germany, and possibly not.
But it depends on the locat terrain, here are some examples from Finland:

Also here in Tenerife there are boulders of lava hiding everywhere. When there is overgrowth you see this:

But after a fire it looks like this:

Just curious, in Australia it’s widely accepted and written into law that all 4wders stay on the track so they don’t damage the surrounding environment. Is the not the case in Europe?
Years ago we had a German student exchange, our son went to Germany and a student came to our place, he stated there was no real 4wding in Germany but absolutely loved it when we took him out for a day of rock crawling and tackling some decent tracks

 

[CrazyOldMan]

So are the plastic bumpers strong enough to stand on? I climb up on mine all the time in back as a step to put something on the load bars.

 

[Jiman01]

TLDR: Get the Grenadier if you can live without the more refined interior/tech of the Defender

I traded in my 2yo Defender X for the Grenadier.

I did it because as a potential long term truck (10+yrs) I wans’t confident the Defender would make it without significant expense.

Whether INEOS is gonna be around in 10yrs is a risk no doubt. But based on my ownership experience so far, I’m confident the vehicle will make it easily based on the build quality.

With the Grenadier you're paying a lot for the hard parts you can’t see, and for the non-enthusiast, like my lovely wife, it doesn’t seem worth it compared to the similarly priced Defender. Comfort (with the exception of the Recaro seats), tech, interior materials, interior design and storage are all less than the Defender. We can all explain the reasons why and try to reason it out, but objectively most people just looking at the two would notice those differences in refinement.

For me, I knew that and bought in to the marketing/hype of going lower tech. It helped that the interior was awesome in other ways like the overhead switch panel, safari roof, pre-wired switches, etc… I do miss a heated steering wheel. IMHO, how well someone adapts to differences depends on your previous vehicles and what you’re used to.

Compared to the Defender the steering is going to feel much different and require more effort and rotations to turn a similar radius. It’s something you’ll get used to over time. I don’t think the steering affects long distance driving though. I can easily cruise at whatever speed I want for hours on end, steering with one hand with my elbow on the window sill. IMO the OEM Grenadier suspension is pretty well dialed in for road use (its great off-road). I thought it was going to be more trucky. Although there are multiple Defender settings, I think you’ll find the Grenadier ride is pretty good.

The other significant difference, especially since it sounds like you’ll take yours off-road, is that all the automtic terrain/traction settings that the Defender more/less did for you in the background will obviously not be there with the Grenadier. It seems obvious until you realize, I have to anticipate/plan where I might have to stop to engage my diffs/lockers, when in the past I could just approach whatever obstacle and the Defender’s computer would figure it out.

With all that said, I love my truck. Although my wife loved the Defender (I “liked” it), I always though it was too pretty. The Grenadier suits me more. I like that I can work on it. With the help of the members here, removing panels, wiring accessories, and customizing the rig to further suit my needs is awesome and something I would not have done with the Defender….OK, I did a little bit but I was scared the whole time

When it comes to dealer stock I found a lot of them didn't have the options combination I was looking for. Many didn’t even have the lockers. My advice is to pick the vehicle that has all options you can’t add later without significant expense like lockers, high load switches, tow package, interior finishes, and safari windows (if you like them) and get the best deal you can. The rest can be added later through the aftermarket.

Hope this helps

 

[Tazzieman]

@Tr182md re "am not sure Grenadier has the brake Controller built in" the answer is no. In Australia people either get a wired in unit eg Redarc TowPro , or what I have , a wireless plug and play system - Elecbrakes. The latter is easily transferable to other vehicles or braked trailers.

 

[Max]

TLDR: Get the Grenadier if you can live without the more refined interior/tech of the Defender

I traded in my 2yo Defender X for the Grenadier.
View attachment 7889172

I did it because as a potential long term truck (10+yrs) I wans’t confident the Defender would make it without significant expense.

Whether INEOS is gonna be around in 10yrs is a risk no doubt. But based on my ownership experience so far, I’m confident the vehicle will make it easily based on the build quality.

With the Grenadier you're paying a lot for the hard parts you can’t see, and for the non-enthusiast, like my lovely wife, it doesn’t seem worth it compared to the similarly priced Defender. Comfort (with the exception of the Recaro seats), tech, interior materials, interior design and storage are all less than the Defender. We can all explain the reasons why and try to reason it out, but objectively most people just looking at the two would notice those differences in refinement.

For me, I knew that and bought in to the marketing/hype of going lower tech. It helped that the interior was awesome in other ways like the overhead switch panel, safari roof, pre-wired switches, etc… I do miss a heated steering wheel. IMHO, how well someone adapts to differences depends on your previous vehicles and what you’re used to.

Compared to the Defender the steering is going to feel much different and require more effort and rotations to turn a similar radius. It’s something you’ll get used to over time. I don’t think the steering affects long distance driving though. I can easily cruise at whatever speed I want for hours on end, steering with one hand with my elbow on the window sill. IMO the OEM Grenadier suspension is pretty well dialed in for road use (its great off-road). I thought it was going to be more trucky. Although there are multiple Defender settings, I think you’ll find the Grenadier ride is pretty good.

The other significant difference, especially since it sounds like you’ll take yours off-road, is that all the automtic terrain/traction settings that the Defender more/less did for you in the background will obviously not be there with the Grenadier. It seems obvious until you realize, I have to anticipate/plan where I might have to stop to engage my diffs/lockers, when in the past I could just approach whatever obstacle and the Defender’s computer would figure it out.

With all that said, I love my truck. Although my wife loved the Defender (I “liked” it), I always though it was too pretty. The Grenadier suits me more. I like that I can work on it. With the help of the members here, removing panels, wiring accessories, and customizing the rig to further suit my needs is awesome and something I would not have done with the Defender….OK, I did a little bit but I was scared the whole time

When it comes to dealer stock I found a lot of them didn't have the options combination I was looking for. Many didn’t even have the lockers. My advice is to pick the vehicle that has all options you can’t add later without significant expense like lockers, high load switches, tow package, interior finishes, and safari windows (if you like them) and get the best deal you can. The rest can be added later through the aftermarket.

Hope this helps

Great write up but you missed the most important fact...you have the right colour MM or SW and my car is the SW Trialmaster with the Saddle leather trim also...you picked well

 

[Max]

So are the plastic bumpers strong enough to stand on? I climb up on mine all the time in back as a step to put something on the load bars.

It is hard to understand bumper bars being made of plastic...maybe there is another name for them...maybe pedestrian push/bump bars but you are right they have enough support to be able to step on at least

 

[Tr182md]

I am not sure if it is too off topic to ask about things like how to spec a new one? There are everal at the dealer not sure I want to wait for a custom build and also take the risk of tariffs “popping up” randomly when I take delivery.

There is a $2000 rebate on accessories and the only thing it does not already have that I might need are the sliders. They say they can support the entire weight of the truck although I have heard that they are not the best but they might be good enough for the lighter off roading that I will probably do. Even if I destroy them I am fine with that if they protect the truck. I could replace them at that point. The only other accessories that add up are seat covers, rubber mats …. The which kit seems like I could do way better on my own but sort of nice to have everything right away and replace as I get more into it.

They also ordered all the trucks with 17” alloy wheels. AS usual when I pointed out that it is supposed to come with steel the dealer did not quite understand what I was saying.

 

[Tinerfeño]

... maybe pedestrian push/bump bars ...

I believe this is the reason. But many new SUV's have better solutions.

 

[Tinerfeño]

I am not sure if it is too off topic to ask about things like how to spec a new one? There are everal at the dealer not sure I want to wait for a custom build and also take the risk of tariffs “popping up” randomly when I take delivery.

I decided on a stock vehicle. it's a 2023 model without lane and speed controls. And dealer changed 18" alloys and road tyres to 17" steel wheels and AT tyres FOC.

If I had specified my own it would have been light blue with white roof (but I have started to like the Magic Mushroom) and include winch (which I really don't need now).

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I am not sure if it is too off topic to ask about things like how to spec a new one? There are everal at the dealer not sure I want to wait for a custom build and also take the risk of tariffs “popping up” randomly when I take delivery.

There is a $2000 rebate on accessories and the only thing it does not already have that I might need are the sliders. They say they can support the entire weight of the truck although I have heard that they are not the best but they might be good enough for the lighter off roading that I will probably do. Even if I destroy them I am fine with that if they protect the truck. I could replace them at that point. The only other accessories that add up are seat covers, rubber mats …. The which kit seems like I could do way better on my own but sort of nice to have everything right away and replace as I get more into it.

They also ordered all the trucks with 17” alloy wheels. AS usual when I pointed out that it is supposed to come with steel the dealer did not quite understand what I was saying.

On the wheels - the reason the dealer was confused was there is not a “supposed to” - 17 or 18, steel or alloy. It’s just a choice to make. Most of us would probably say in the config, the really big deal are the diff locks and aux rooftop wiring. If you’ll be towing, it’s much more expensive to add it afterwards. If you’ll need as winch at some point, the high power option is important, if it doesn’t already have a winch. Obviously if you really want safari windows, that has to be there.

But it depends how you intend to use it. Just doing fire roads and light camping? You won’t need the diff locks. No plans to wire stuff up on the roof? Don’t need that. No winching? Don’t need a winch or high power option. Since you’re considering rock sliders, I think you will definitely need the diff locks, and if you’re the kind of guy who needs triple locks, I would also recommend the rooftop wiring. If you don’t actually need rocksliders, you could consider the side runners instead. Personally, I think there are better options.

Get the all weather mats.

 

[Tr182md]

Thanks. The one i am looking at is fully loaded. The Tialmaster already has most of what i am looking for and the safari windows (they have other trucks almost the same without the windows). was considering but it does affect which roof rack you get. I always get cars with sunroofs but rarely use them. Sort of a nice to have for when i do.

Understood about the tires. I suppose i meant that if you don’t choose different the default is 17” steel for the trialmaster. The dealer has at least 24 of these on the lot so we all know how it goes. Dealers spec up the order for what they thin’ will sell. Custom order sounds good but sounds like there have been some long waits.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Thanks. The one i am looking at is fully loaded. The Tialmaster already has most of what i am looking for and the safari windows (they have other trucks almost the same without the windows). was considering but it does affect which roof rack you get. I always get cars with sunroofs but rarely use them. Sort of a nice to have for when i do.

Understood about the tires. I suppose i meant that if you don’t choose different the default is 17” steel for the trialmaster. The dealer has at least 24 of these on the lot so we all know how it goes. Dealers spec up the order for what they thin’ will sell. Custom order sounds good but sounds like there have been some long waits.

There are great options out there for a full rack with safari windows. Now I get your point on wheels - yes, standard Trialmaster spec is 17” steelies. You might try to use this for negotiation - make them eat the cost on the wheel upgrade. If you’re going to go with alloys, maybe use what you save and go with something like Owl 60’s

INEOS GRENADIER ACS ROOF FULL LENGTH PLATFORM RACK | 2024+

PART # 00-GFLR-1817 Backorder: Est. to Ship in 1-2 weeks The ACS ROOF Platform Rack for the Ineos Grenadier features extreme load-carrying capability thanks to aluminum extrusion 6063 T6 aluminum and billet machined 6061 T6 aluminum brackets. Key Features: Billet Aluminum Mounting Bases...

www.leitnerdesigns.com

 

[Warren481]

I'm a couple of months into owning my Grenadier and about 1200 miles. I'd never owned a 4x4; the different steering hasn't bothered me at all. We humans are good at a adapting I did notice it was different on the road on my first test drive (of three), but after that I haven't noticed. Ditto for the turning circle. I haven't had any issues with the vehicle so far (fingers crossed!). I went through a list of all the known issues with the dealer prior to accepting the vehicle and reviewed their service paperwork ( a lot!) for everything they had fixed after taking delivery of the vehicle from IA. This did delay delivery of the vehicle to me, but I was very clear with them that time was not an issue.

 

[Tr182md]

I'm a couple of months into owning my Grenadier and about 1200 miles. I'd never owned a 4x4; the different steering hasn't bothered me at all. We humans are good at an adapting I did notice it was different on the road on my first test drive (of three), but after that I haven't noticed. Ditto for the turning circle. I haven't had any issues with the vehicle so far (fingers crossed!). I went through a list of all the known issues with the dealer prior to accepting the vehicle and reviewed their service paperwork ( a lot!) for everything they had fixed after taking delivery of the vehicle from IA. This did delay delivery of the vehicle to me, but I was very clear with them that time was not an issue.

Do you mean that you researched and found known issues and then made them address them before taking delivery? Or you reviewed the service history of the one you bought? Which should be almost zero on delivery.