Let's get some perspective: Is your Grenadier AC working as it should?

[G-Man]

Who else's AC is batsh1t crazy and randomly blows hot air one day and cold the next on the exact same setting? I don't think the AC system got the attention it deserved during the 1.2 million miles of road testing, that's for sure. I love my new truck but it's the one thing that drives me nuts on pretty much a daily basis as I fiddle away at the controls and I'm surprised Ineos haven't found a fix for it yet. I gather it's down to sticky solenoid valves or such like and is probably an expensive warranty concern for them.

It would be useful to set up a poll on this forum and get an idea of what percentage and numbers of owners here have flaky AC. This forum must represent a decent amount of the Grenadier owner population, perhaps it would help sharpen Ineos' perspective on the issue if it popped up on every Google search relating to Grenadier AC issues. I don't have the ability to raise a forum poll but maybe @Stu_Barnes would consider it a worthy exercise

 

[bemax]

I really drove enough in the last weeks and made sure that the cooling system was topped all the time. After thousands of kilometres and four refills I had been sure that there hasn’t been any air left in the system.
I was wrong!
On the 31st of December the heating stopped working again. After some random changes (like full heat at full speed on different vent settings) it worked again and the gurgling sound of blubbering air was hearable once again.
Yesterday I checked the cooling system and topped another 150 ml.
I wasn’t sure whether it’s been a good idea to buy 1.5 litres of coolant. But after refilling in total short of a litre by now I am glad I did so. Anyhow it would be even better if the system would work without the refilling.
Today I started at minus 15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Fahrenheit) and the car warmed up significantly after less than 10 minutes (I drove downhill the first 10 km so the motor temperature didn’t rise fast.

 

[Skydance]

I really drove enough in the last weeks and made sure that the cooling system was topped all the time. After thousands of kilometres and four refills I had been sure that there hasn’t been any air left in the system.
I was wrong!
On the 31st of December the heating stopped working again. After some random changes (like full heat at full speed on different vent settings) it worked again and the gurgling sound of blubbering air was hearable once again.
Yesterday I checked the cooling system and topped another 150 ml.
I wasn’t sure whether it’s been a good idea to buy 1.5 litres of coolant. But after refilling in total short of a litre by now I am glad I did so. Anyhow it would be even better if the system would work without the refilling.
Today I started at minus 15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Fahrenheit) and the car warmed up significantly after less than 10 minutes (I drove downhill the first 10 km so the motor temperature didn’t rise fast.View attachment 7883414View attachment 7883413

The air is gradually escaping and I bet it will get better and stable from now on once all the air has been purged. I’ve done the topping up twice (previously had it bled by the dealer) and now it’s near perfect. Takes less than 5 minutes to heat up, virtually no fogging and no drips so far caused by condensation. I would recommend the black (high) pressure tank needs to be slightly higher than the low pressure (blue).

People out there, it works. Funny dealers and Ineos aren’t aware of the fix.

Basically, from new the hvac, power steering and brakes all needed bleeding and topping up. All of it work perfectly now from HVAC, steering is lighter (less whining), return to centre slightly better and my brakes aren’t as spongy.

 

[DFW Guy]

I had the weird noise you get when you put the dial on setting 4 with the heat/ac. I just let the car idle, turned it to 4, and closed all the vents except for the front right where they noise was coming from. Resolved itself and I'm no longer getting it.

I did however notice that the rear two vents were VERY hot while the front were cold when doing this. I had this issue with my Metris and it was resolved the same way. Force all the pressure out of the problematic vent at high heat and whatever was blocking/out of spec will be pushed through.

I agree with Skydance regarding the fluids. Every single one of the reservoirs were at their low point, including the power steering, brake, and coolant levels. I'm just working on sourcing the brake fluid and coolant but that may require a trip to BMW.

The air is gradually escaping and I bet it will get better and stable from now on once all the air has been purged. I’ve done the topping up twice (previously had it bled by the dealer) and now it’s near perfect. Takes less than 5 minutes to heat up, virtually no fogging and no drips so far caused by condensation. I would recommend the black (high) pressure tank needs to be slightly higher than the low pressure (blue).

People out there, it works. Funny dealers and Ineos aren’t aware of the fix.

Basically, from new the hvac, power steering and brakes all needed bleeding and topping up. All of it work perfectly now from HVAC, steering is lighter (less whining), return to centre slightly better and my brakes aren’t as spongy.

 

[marcusnilsson]

Yesterday I started the car after standing still in -11 celcius for 3 days. The AC did not start at all. Tried all different settings possible. The small indicator lights were working but nothing was blowing. Went to a car shop and they suspected the fuse. We removed the HVAC fuse and tested it, it was not broken so we put it back in its place. Now when we checked again the AC was working and blowing hot air. Very strange. I then drove 400kms and the AC was blowing lava hot air the entire way. Regardless of setting in the AC (even when out on OFF).
Parked the car overnight in -6 Celsius. Drove home today (200km), and now it seemed to work “normal”.

No idea what happened.

 

[bemax]

Yesterday I started the car after standing still in -11 celcius for 3 days. The AC did not start at all. Tried all different settings possible. The small indicator lights were working but nothing was blowing. Went to a car shop and they suspected the fuse. We removed the HVAC fuse and tested it, it was not broken so we put it back in its place. Now when we checked again the AC was working and blowing hot air. Very strange. I then drove 400kms and the AC was blowing lava hot air the entire way. Regardless of setting in the AC (even when out on OFF).
Parked the car overnight in -6 Celsius. Drove home today (200km), and now it seemed to work “normal”.

No idea what happened.

A car with character?

 

[DFW Guy]

A car with character?

Have you tried turning it off and on again Sir?

 

[shiv.nandak]

I really drove enough in the last weeks and made sure that the cooling system was topped all the time. After thousands of kilometres and four refills I had been sure that there hasn’t been any air left in the system.
I was wrong!
On the 31st of December the heating stopped working again. After some random changes (like full heat at full speed on different vent settings) it worked again and the gurgling sound of blubbering air was hearable once again.
Yesterday I checked the cooling system and topped another 150 ml.
I wasn’t sure whether it’s been a good idea to buy 1.5 litres of coolant. But after refilling in total short of a litre by now I am glad I did so. Anyhow it would be even better if the system would work without the refilling.
Today I started at minus 15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Fahrenheit) and the car warmed up significantly after less than 10 minutes (I drove downhill the first 10 km so the motor temperature didn’t rise fast.View attachment 7883414View attachment 7883413

Your off-road screen shows engine oil temp?? Mine doesn't. Can someone in the US confirm?

 

[Barney]

Admittedly, I have already carried out the bleeding program and then everything was perfect. I just added some water. At the weekend I was on the highway with a wind blowing from the front and around 0° Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit. It didn't heat up well, the passenger was even colder, so the temperature was different on the right and left. And there was cold air coming out of the center console. WTF. When I got to my destination in the morning, I went through the bleeding procedure with the car cold and didn't add anything at first. Later that afternoon, I wanted to add more antifreeze at a BMW mechanic friend of mine. We only added water, however, as he didn't have the green stuff at home. The procedure wouldn't start, however, as the car was still too warm. But the heating and AC worked fine without any problems and the cold air flow from the center console was gone. Even on the highway. No explanation. It may have something to do with the control flaps closing, but it also seems to be related to the air in the system.

 

[sayntzero]

Oof. What a thread.

My experience so far has been okay. But I live in Texas. When it's 110º (44c) the ac blows cold. When it's 32º (0c) the heat blows hot.

Anything between that has been weird. Hot air out of the dash vents while cold air is coming from the floor vents. Hot air while the settings are set cold and vice versa.

Auto sometimes works, but I am usually fiddling with the manual settings.

Today I was on a three hour drive at about 60º outside (15c) and I just wanted a slightly warm breeze. It took me 45 minutes to get the thing dialed in. Then I stopped for gas, changed nothing, and when I started again it was full heat.

I appreciate all the info here. I'll check the reservoirs this week and I'll try the simple solutions like turning it off for a bit or maybe being more patient when I adjust the settings(?)

The AC does make me feel a little crazy sometimes.

 

[ColoradoMike]

if Ineos simply announces something like “we are looking into the hvac issue and will address it”

Then I would be content, and consider that to be a good faith gesture from this operation. I will just wait silently.

The lack of formal acknowledgement suggests one or more of these potential reasons(there is simply no other rationale for being silent on this. They operate at such minuscule scale, the volume of these reports on the internet and reported up via dealerships should be sufficient trigger for socializing formal response)

- they are incapable of fixing this (the same incompetence that created the issue can’t magically fix it). However they found themselves with a comically deficient HVAC is also a dead end. They can not resolve the problem trivially.
- they have fixed it silently in new production, but will ignore this issue for existing fleet of customers (the penny pincher is in a challenging financial state)
- they are not looking to address the problem at all, given a near term exit strategy for the entire venture (it's the how long will Ineos Automotive survive question)

Sorry to hear about your issues with your AC situation.

I have to ask....have you discussed this with your dealer? Did you purchase it from Red Noland here in Colorado Springs?

For us, thankfully, we do not have any MAJOR issues with our HVAC whatsoever. After reading the initial posts I elected to NEVER use the "AUTO" function and manually did it every time I got in the vehicle.

So over the past month and a half I have elected to let the AUTO function run and it works like a CHARM for us. The ONLY minor issue is the slight (and I mean slight) "whistle" that comes at times in Auto is there but goes away once temp stabilizes.

We had a Red Noland run this Friday and I asked several owners what their issues were.....you know what? Not ONE person had any issues with regards to the HVAC system.

If you did purchase from Red Noland, please reach out to them. If you have and they did not address the issue then PLEASE post up how they addressed it.

Not discounting your issues but we have not had an issue, nor have many of my friends that have purchased from them whatsoever.

So I do run our heating system in AUTO now and while there is a minor "whistle" at times it goes away in a bit. In Manual Mode at speeds 3 to 4 we do have a greater "whistle".

Thoughts @HereinDaRockies

 

[Clark Kent]

Oof. What a thread.

My experience so far has been okay. But I live in Texas. When it's 110º (44c) the ac blows cold. When it's 32º (0c) the heat blows hot.

Anything between that has been weird. Hot air out of the dash vents while cold air is coming from the floor vents. Hot air while the settings are set cold and vice versa.

Auto sometimes works, but I am usually fiddling with the manual settings.

Today I was on a three hour drive at about 60º outside (15c) and I just wanted a slightly warm breeze. It took me 45 minutes to get the thing dialed in. Then I stopped for gas, changed nothing, and when I started again it was full heat.

I appreciate all the info here. I'll check the reservoirs this week and I'll try the simple solutions like turning it off for a bit or maybe being more patient when I adjust the settings(?)

The AC does make me feel a little crazy sometimes.

My HVAC system works great in heat and AC mode, including auto. I did a 3500km (2100 mile) trip over Christmas and New Year in warm summer temps. At times I had to turn up the AC temp because it got too cold in auto mode. I put that down to a single point reference temperature sensor next to the pax grab handle, versus the volume of the cabin and large glass area (fishbowl effect).

My vehicle had an AC evac and regas in the first month of ownership (July 2023) due to a leaking charge valve, and has had a repair done to address the condensate dripping from the front floor vents. I do keep an eye on coolant levels per suggestions in the forum. I fill the reservoirs to completely cover the max indicator markers. I have never done a bleed. My high temp/pressure side used 20ml of coolant over the 3500km trip. About 0.67 fl.oz. I topped it up with demineralised water from a syringe. The low temp/pressure level didn't change.

The unexpected temps at face/floor, front/rear seems to be a duct and flap position issue. It's summer here and I haven't used heat or floor for months. Just for $hits and giggles today I opened all the windows and blasted down the highway for 15 mins while exercising the HVAC through all combinations of manual, auto, heat and cool (AC) at low and high fan speeds, spending a few mins per setting. The only anomaly I would note is it took a while (~10 secs) for the floor vents to open and they made a distinct pop when they did. I haven't used the floor vents for a while so I think there is some stiction with the duct doors and seals.
I put all the windows down not only because it's warm here in 'Straya and cabin heat is not needed, but I wanted to eliminate any back pressure on the ventilation fan at high speed trying to pump air into a well sealed cabin with only the plastic flaps in the rear pillars for outflow.

I've said it before: The fact that many or most vehicles are working ok says that the system specs and selected components are ok. The mixed results we're seeing across the fleet are mostly common faults that should be fixable with adequate support from dealers/agents and Ineos. As frustrating as it may be, take heart that the HVAC system can be made to work and is fit for purpose. That's little comfort for those that are fighting their HVAC.

Edit: fixed typos.

 

[ColoradoMike]

Agreed Clark! I feel the pain from folks that have the issues but for us it hasn't been a problem. Perhaps in the future it might be but for now we are very happy.

 

[Krabby]

Am I correct in suggesting the HVAC issues seem to be mostly in NA? Just an observation.

 

[Clark Kent]

Am I correct in suggesting the HVAC issues seem to be mostly in NA? Just an observation.

Good question @Krabby. The core components should be the same so hard to see why one market might be seeing issues that are not affecting others. You guys got MY24+ so maybe a component batch or a supplier change issue perhaps.
Help me out please. Which B58 are you guys running? The later B58TU variant has a split cylinder head / block cooling system controlled by a split cooling valve (SCV). That might make a difference depending where the heater circuit coolant flow comes from. 100% spitballing here.
YT link. SCV starts at 7:18.

 

[mcdoogs]

Am I correct in suggesting the HVAC issues seem to be mostly in NA? Just an observation.

That could be, although I think there could be some selection bias at play given the US is a big market and this is an English-centric forum. Something to keep in mind.

One very interesting thing I've personally experienced is that, while I just purchased my Grenadier just 10 days ago here in New England the build date is 8 months ago: 04/2024. It also was a relatively recent arrival at the dealer and hadnt even made it to the showroom/lot yet (it was at the service/initial delivery garage which is down the street).

That means my Grenadier sat around undriven for many months before even making it to its sales destination. Which makes some sense, a new auto manufacturer is probably not going to have a logistical network set up that is as efficient as the established auto makers.

If that pattern holds true, that NA-bound cars tend to have been stored for long periods prior to deliver to dealers, that seems like it would put even more importance on the dealer's pre sales preparation like bleeding air out of closed systems. We all know how inconsistent dealerships generally are, and lots of Ineos dealerships are new companies altogether. So add those things together more US Grenadiers needing perfect dealer prep and dealers being very not-so-perfect...

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

As frustrating as it may be, take heart that the HVAC system can be made to work and is fit for purpose. That's little comfort for those that are fighting their HVAC.

Edit: fixed typos.

The frustrating thing is that the dealers know about it but still a year later have no fix. You would think that after a year Ineos would have said something about it but we haven’t heard a word from Ineos concerning the HVAC issue. I’ve emailed and called Ineos several times with no response. It feels like Ineos is waiting out the warranty period , even if that’s not true that’s the sense we get. It would be one thing if Ineos said “we are working on it” but instead it’s been crickets.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

The frustrating thing is that the dealers know about it but still a year later have no fix. You would think that after a year Ineos would have said something about it but we haven’t heard a word from Ineos concerning the HVAC issue. I’ve emailed and called Ineos several times with no response. It feels like Ineos is waiting out the warranty period , even if that’s not true that’s the sense we get. It would be one thing if Ineos said “we are working on it” but instead it’s been crickets.

This is the main reason that makes me mad and low trust with Ineos. Crickets.

Shit, for the adas issue, it took a god damn podcast for the ceo to drop a statement that they will fix it. No words on that to its early customers leading up to that podcast. Do you guys understand how to seed customer loyalty? Your brand presence ain't shit at this point, in the u.s. Anyone there wearing the marketing strategy hat?

 

[Jackattack13]

The frustrating thing is that the dealers know about it but still a year later have no fix. You would think that after a year Ineos would have said something about it but we haven’t heard a word from Ineos concerning the HVAC issue. I’ve emailed and called Ineos several times with no response. It feels like Ineos is waiting out the warranty period , even if that’s not true that’s the sense we get. It would be one thing if Ineos said “we are working on it” but instead it’s been crickets.

Facing these bugs with no warranty is my biggest fear. I can only imagine the service bills for the hours of troubleshooting required to resolve these issues.

 

[Roach]

Interesting to see who they are hiring:

INEOS Automotive

In 2017, INEOS Chairman Jim Ratcliffe, a car enthusiast and experienced adventurer, identified a gap in the market for an uncompromising 4X4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability.

apply.workable.com

I didn't see any HVAC specialist

@HereinDaRockies , to your point, I only saw one opening for marketing. They had released an RFB six months back, not certain if it was ever awarded as it was under Greg Clark's watch just before he left. RFB was for marketing help but it was pretty thin as I recall.

 

[MurphyMurph]

That could be, although I think there could be some selection bias at play given the US is a big market and this is an English-centric forum. Something to keep in mind.

One very interesting thing I've personally experienced is that, while I just purchased my Grenadier just 10 days ago here in New England the build date is 8 months ago: 04/2024. It also was a relatively recent arrival at the dealer and hadnt even made it to the showroom/lot yet (it was at the service/initial delivery garage which is down the street).

That means my Grenadier sat around undriven for many months before even making it to its sales destination. Which makes some sense, a new auto manufacturer is probably not going to have a logistical network set up that is as efficient as the established auto makers.

If that pattern holds true, that NA-bound cars tend to have been stored for long periods prior to deliver to dealers, that seems like it would put even more importance on the dealer's pre sales preparation like bleeding air out of closed systems. We all know how inconsistent dealerships generally are, and lots of Ineos dealerships are new companies altogether. So add those things together more US Grenadiers needing perfect dealer prep and dealers being very not-so-perfect...

I also have a 4/2024 build date. The dealer took possession of it in June but I took delivery in July because I was working on selling another vehicle. I have had issues with my HVAC, not as persistent as others, but the system is inconsistent.

I checked both coolant tanks Saturday after it sat overnight (so it was well cooled down) and both tanks are below the “MIN” levels. I’m going to order some coolant along with brake fluid power steering fluid because they are all below the “MAX” lines.