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Ineos EVP Americas Interview - The Globe and Mail

‘Who is buying the Grenadier and how is Ineos fixing the teething issues? We talk to the new VP for the Americas’

I didn’t encounter a paywall, others might.


No mention of HVAC. Apparently HVAC isn’t considered an issue (?)
(This article may have been posted already, couldn’t find it)
 
This should assist things…
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I thought the buyer demographic was enlightening.
Serious overlander
Wealthy (defined as household income over $500k)

Predominantly used to have 1) a defender 2) bronco/jeep 3) G wagen.

I identify with 1 possibly 2 of those labels. Interesting.
 
No no no, I'm told by reputable sources on this forum that G wagon owners/ buyers are not interested in the Grenadier.

Petty post I know. 😂
 
I thought the buyer demographic was enlightening.
Serious overlander
Wealthy (defined as household income over $500k)

Predominantly used to have 1) a defender 2) bronco/jeep 3) G wagen.

I identify with 1 possibly 2 of those labels. Interesting.
I don't qualify as any of those 😅
 
Target audiences are often described by net worth (e.g., Bentley Arnage: 30m; Continental: 5m; Flying Spur I: 3m, etc.). He is quoted speaking of 500k+ of „household income.“ This would roughly translate to 1-5m of net worth. In this bracket are, among others, G-Wagon, LC, Rubicon, X7, MB GLE, GLS, Range Rover. So, when translating household income to net worth, to me it would make sense.
 
I thought the buyer demographic was enlightening.
Serious overlander
Wealthy (defined as household income over $500k)
Predominantly used to have 1) a defender 2) bronco/jeep 3) G wagen.
It is interesting to hear that, as it means the marketing demographic has been significantly shifted from 18-24 months ago where there were multiple different markets they were approaching and several different customer types...

Personally, I feel like this is a disheartening choice and effectively shooting themselves in the foot by further detaching themselves from the people who actually use the product as it was intended; instead are following the marketing shift of the EU team into an "up market" segment that, bluntly, the Grenadier has no business being in (it isn't nearly refined enough nor does it have the pedigree and status to rub shoulders in that segment).

For what it's worth, the only one of those demographics I fall into could be the first, through having a fair bit of off-pavement experience both in weekend trips and multi-week travel
 
Agree, but don’t see much of a problem yet. No gym has space for 100% of its members. 25% are very active; 40% are active and 60% are rather passive. All are drawn in for similar reasons, the idea of a lifestyle that would translate into increased health, happiness, and attractiveness. But then, it is the very active and active who create the image and signals that attract the passive without whom the gym would not exist either. Some indulge in the activity, some in self-delusion. A minority creates the space, a majority funds it. Same with vehicles like the ones the Grenadier actually competes with - minority use creates attractiveness for a majority who helps make it economically viable. No overlanding, no Chelsea tractor, and vice versa. Some actually need it as a tool, some create use cases, some merely like the rugged image or the idea of what they could do or could be. Such symbiosis would allow for brand expansion, e.g., for a smaller, Jimny+ sized vehicle or maybe a bigger one, like the chassis cab promises to be a successfull brand expansion of the pickup. On the contrary, charging excessively for special paint, some accessories… would seem like putting lip stick on a farm pig, hopeless brand extension into the Bentayga, Range Rover, luxury SUV realm.
 
Agree, but don’t see much of a problem yet. No gym has space for 100% of its members. 25% are very active; 40% are active and 60% are rather passive. All are drawn in for similar reasons, the idea of a lifestyle that would translate into increased health, happiness, and attractiveness. But then, it is the very active and active who create the image and signals that attract the passive without whom the gym would not exist either. Some indulge in the activity, some in self-delusion. A minority creates the space, a majority funds it. Same with vehicles like the ones the Grenadier actually competes with - minority use creates attractiveness for a majority who helps make it economically viable. No overlanding, no Chelsea tractor, and vice versa. Some actually need it as a tool, some create use cases, some merely like the rugged image or the idea of what they could do or could be. Such symbiosis would allow for brand expansion, e.g., for a smaller, Jimny+ sized vehicle or maybe a bigger one, like the chassis cab promises to be a successfull brand expansion of the pickup. On the contrary, charging excessively for special paint, some accessories… would seem like putting lip stick on a farm pig, hopeless brand extension into the Bentayga, Range Rover, luxury SUV realm.
Well said to both you and @anand

I'm nowhere near their salary target but I owned/wheeled a Series 2a LR for many years. I even had a Wrangler for a brief time. Land Rover seems to have forgotten their heritage and with the exception of one commercial, they're not even connecting the new Defender with the proper one. But JLR is selling tens of thousands of NDs because they had a specific target audience from the get go and - for those customers needs and wants - got it right.

The disconnect for me is what was written down on that napkin in Belgravia and then the vision of Projekt Grenadier seems to have gotten lost along the way. Reality was part of the diversion - legislation essentially makes it impossible to simply reproduce a proper Defender in 2025. Even the closest relative to the Defender - the Toyota LC 70 series - seems to be losing places it can be sold. But also spoiling the original objective were bean counters, non-automotive leadership, and a wishy-washy understanding of their target audience.
 
In luxury marketing, key elements are „founding myth,“ „heritage,“ and „creation.“ Understood as a newly introduced luxury item - something the average Grenadier buyer does not need, but wants - the Grenadier exhibits all three: Napkin in Belgravia, LR heritage/cult-like following (for free, strike of genius), like no other built to function. Viewed from this angle, dots do connect. Having joined the journey only recently, being a layman and new to this space, I admit it is easier not to feel disappointed and to pretend that I bought the vehicle, not the story.
 
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For us the Napkin supplied all we were looking for in a vehicle. The Heritage was little more than conversation fodder and the Creation a slow series of compromises away from the original premise. The final decision depended upon our willingness to, as @Emil says, take the vehicle as it eventually was and "not feel disappointed".

For the time being Ineos is leaving in place the option to build to suit with a base Station Wagon as the starting point. I'm fine with the lipstick option for those that need or want it as long as the down spec model remains easily available. I don't really care who the majority funders are (though IA seems to be making a push in a very specific direction). My bigger concern with the disparate market segments is that most innovation and problem solving happens at the enthusiast level and not at the pheasant hunt and I don't own a Purdey.
 
Well said. Availability of a bare, non-luxury “tradesman” edition of fundamentally good vehicles is good for both ends of the utility-luxury spectrum. It keeps innovation and creative thinking around the platform. Witness the Sprinter, F150, Wrangler, etc. The basic edition of all those is a beautiful blank slate for adventure. Or urban showing off, if that’s your thing also. If the old G-Wagen had continued with a basic edition, that would be “competition” for the basic Grenadier.
 
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