Americas I came, I saw, I drove then walked…

[Lord Ripon USA]

The returning force comes somewhat from toe in/out and mainly from the caster.

Changing the height of the car via a suspension lift reduces the force as it reduces the caster.

AWo

My guess is very few here have ever experienced unexpected, uncontrollable, wheel shimmy.
At the proving grounds, an engineer showed me what it was like in a Buick station wagon at 65mph. In reverse!

My 64 IH pickup has always been prone to shimmy.
It’s an eye opener for certain.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Please explain how the steering is made for off-road and how that affects the return to center?

I drive all sorts of off-road trucks newish, old and custom swapped axles with fully custom steering builds and never had an issue making one return to center. I thought the steering would be a non issue for coming from trucks that can only be explained as sh@t boxes but the first turn I made in the gren I said out loud to the sales person "I don't like that". I never really got use to it but I am not super worried as long as more caster can fix it and I will probably remove the steering stabilizer.

This truck is far from perfect but it's the only one like it on the market so I have will just spend my time making it how I want. This forum gets so defensive of this truck I really don't get it. If I wanted a community that sits around and talks about how great their car is and how everyone else is wrong I would get a new jeep. Lets be better than that toxic off-road community that is developing lately.

Hi Ironfab
I don’t think this forum is overly defensive, it’s just that your brief experience doesn’t seem to tally with too many of the members on here. Yes, some people have definitely experienced odd steering characteristics in the way you have. Others like myself, have absolutely no idea what you and others are referring to. Therefore I would think there was some tuning to be done in this area.
In your case, if I am correct, you have not given yourself much time to gel with the vehicle and see if you can get on or not. I think that is the reason you have experienced kickback from some members. Another member on here has rejected his vehicle due to continuous problems. He has received nothing but support. Either way. I think that given the time, you will probably really enjoy the Grenadier. If not, no big deal. Your money and your choice. We are after all, just talking about a chunk of metal here.

 

[Tom109]

To be fair, I hate Subarus. But on a snow day like today it is worse running the gauntlet of stuck Subarus getting out of our neighborhood

Driver skill. Not everyone has that.

My son had to custom order his ‘22 Crosstrek 6spd manual. What a beautiful drive - relatively small, AWD, manual !!!

 

[SkiBum1]

I picked up my grenadier this morning, took it out in the rain, threw it in the dryer and it shrank up like hell! Not sure what to do.

 

[MTNDOG]

I picked up my grenadier this morning, took it out in the rain, threw it in the dryer and it shrank up like hell! Not sure what to do.

I would suggest either drinking a little more or a little less of what ever is in the bottle next to your Grenadier to see what happens. Probably start with drinking more first, I'm thinking that may fix the issue.

 

[SkiBum1]

I would suggest either drinking a little more or a little less of what ever is in the bottle next to your Grenadier to see what happens. Probably start with drinking more first, I'm thinking that may fix the issue.

My thought exactly. Nothing better than booze and engines.

 

[Wayneos]

Driver skill. Not everyone has that.

My son had to custom order his ‘22 Crosstrek 6spd manual. What a beautiful drive - relatively small, AWD, manual !!!

Chuck the 17” wheels and throw a set of 15” wheels and AT’s on and it transforms that car!

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Took a 20 minute test drive at Holman in FL this afternoon. They had about 20 cars around the lot. There were 5 parked end to end that looked like they were mustering for a military exercise. Very purposeful design.
I’ve had Defenders, including the ‘97 D90 model.
Got to say, the steering lack of recoil was very odd. I can see maybe getting accustomed to it if it was my only vehicle. We shuttle between a couple and if you took the wheel of the Grenadier without expecting the steering idiosyncrasies I could see a “surprise” event.
I’ll pass.

Salj - Spent several yrs renting different cars/suvs - each drives a touch different and brakes too. Anything "new" will be different. You test drove with "insight" and it was forefront in your mind. You are missing out on an incredible vehicle.

 

[BInder]

Got mine, listened to all the complaints about all the very european oddities and the steering and I just don't quite understand unless you are coming at this from a perspective expecting the Grenadier to be the same or similar to most of the other, boring, SUV's on the market. I see this vehicle as the purest and most perfect melding of utility and function and minimalist luxury. I appreciate the robust, dedicated and planted feel and I like the steering but I knew it was a purpose built vehicle and with that comes some differences from the typical SUV on the market today.....all of which are so cookie cutter and boring I haven't even pursued them in years. The Grenadier is purposeful and gives the feel that it is around for the long haul. I've always been bothered we couldn't get the euro/african land cruisers that aren't just a soccer mom tech mobile, the Genadier gives me that utility and robust feel without the chrome/bling and trivial silliness that is just begging to break.

 

[BillLumberg]

I would suggest either drinking a little more or a little less of what ever is in the bottle next to your Grenadier to see what happens. Probably start with drinking more first, I'm thinking that may fix the issue.

I would also start fixing/adding/modifying everything on your IG after the 5th drink. It’s amazing to wake up the next day and see what you have created.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Got mine, listened to all the complaints about all the very european oddities and the steering and I just don't quite understand unless you are coming at this from a perspective expecting the Grenadier to be the same or similar to most of the other, boring, SUV's on the market. I see this vehicle as the purest and most perfect melding of utility and function and minimalist luxury. I appreciate the robust, dedicated and planted feel and I like the steering but I knew it was a purpose built vehicle and with that comes some differences from the typical SUV on the market today.....all of which are so cookie cutter and boring I haven't even pursued them in years. The Grenadier is purposeful and gives the feel that it is around for the long haul. I've always been bothered we couldn't get the euro/african land cruisers that aren't just a soccer mom tech mobile, the Genadier gives me that utility and robust feel without the chrome/bling and trivial silliness that is just begging to break.

I think the issue is cross over street cars have become so common, that folks just do not like the feel of a 4x4 truck, and have no experience. Sure, AWD street cars are easier to drive, and handle differently, but the majority of the newer generation at large does not need a real SUV with the Utility and capability and cannot see past the truck like handling and fuel mileage. At the same time we are reaching dangerous, and crisis proportions of un-educated taking street cars like Subarus off road and destroying them. Many times requiring rescue, and a ending up with a totaled vehicle. Manufacturers are at fault, sending the wrong message through their advertising. Even in my subdivision Subarus are completely worn out in 3-5 years of off road use getting home and its little more then gravel roads. Drivetrain, wheels ( yes wheels), suspension..it all goes. And if you slip off the road and hit a rock or something you are done. ( sorry neighbor, I know that wound is only a week old) Those that do overlanding, hard core wheeling or other outdoor hobbies that require a real SUV or truck, and have been driving them forever cannot believe how well it handles. For the un-initiated go drive a;

1. Suzuki Samurai
2. Older Tacoma
3. CJ

Then come back to me and tell me how a Grenadier handles and rides

 

[Coullabus]

I picked up my grenadier this morning, took it out in the rain, threw it in the dryer and it shrank up like hell! Not sure what to do.

Good grief - so it’s not just me…

 

[Krabby]

I think the issue is cross over street cars have become so common, that folks just do not like the feel of a 4x4 truck, and have no experience. Sure, AWD street cars are easier to drive, and handle differently, but the majority of the newer generation at large does not need a real SUV with the Utility and capability and cannot see past the truck like handling and fuel mileage. At the same time we are reaching dangerous, and crisis proportions of un-educated taking street cars like Subarus off road and destroying them. Many times requiring rescue, and a ending up with a totaled vehicle. Manufacturers are at fault, sending the wrong message through their advertising. Even in my subdivision Subarus are completely worn out in 3-5 years of off road use getting home and its little more then gravel roads. Drivetrain, wheels ( yes wheels), suspension..it all goes. And if you slip off the road and hit a rock or something you are done. ( sorry neighbor, I know that wound is only a week old) Those that do overlanding, hard core wheeling or other outdoor hobbies that require a real SUV or truck, and have been driving them forever cannot believe how well it handles. For the un-initiated go drive a;

1. Suzuki Samurai
2. Older Tacoma
3. CJ

Then come back to me and tell me how a Grenadier handles and riders

Your location says Alb NM. May I ask what neighborhood? I want to use google maps for an aerial view. I don’t need your address or anything, I just want too see what it’s like where you’re at. I’ve never been to the SW really and I’m genuinely curious.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Your location says Alb NM. May I ask what neighborhood? I want to use google maps for an aerial view. I don’t need your address or anything, I just want too see what it’s like where you’re at. I’ve never been to the SW really and I’m genuinely curious.

Its called Evergreen Hills, not sure that will come up. Its at the North Eastern most accessible place in Albuquerque. If you find the Tram, head north to the next road on the bend FR333 and follow that all the way as far as you can go, past the La Luz cut off, past the next hiking trail parking lot for Piedra Lisa. Mine has a waterfall, looks like you can see my dump trailer in Google Earth and Montero parked by the Propane Tank. Casa Canoncito shows up across the valley, that's the neighbor that just totaled his wife's Subaru, he has 2 adventure based Air B and Bs inside his home, and does well with them. I should not speak, I nearly ran into and totaled someone's little AWD Honda the other day though as they were stuck on a hill and I almost saw it too late on the ice. That is the one bad thing about those Air BB guests in the winter. Its an unusual, off grid subdivision being so close to town, but we love it. But I lay out new subdivisions like this for a profitable hobby now as well, so it makes sense. A realtor in Idaho called this weekend and wants me to purchase 487 acres with winter access only by snow machine. A bit out of my comfort zone, but after some research and seeing other small communities in the area built out, I just might! They even have stops along the way with restaurants, gas stations, hot springs and motels...all off grid. So my Albuquerque home has been good preparation for my semi retirement career

 

[Krabby]

Its called Evergreen Hills, not sure that will come up. Its at the North Eastern most accessible place in Albuquerque. If you find the Tram, head north to the next road on the bend FR333 and follow that all the way as far as you can go, past the La Luz cut off, past the next hiking trail parking lot for Piedra Lisa. Mine has a waterfall, looks like you can see my dump trailer in Google Earth and Montero parked by the Propane Tank. Casa Canoncito shows up across the valley, that's the neighbor that just totaled his wife's Subaru, he has 2 adventure based Air B and Bs inside his home, and does well with them. I should not speak, I nearly ran into and totaled someone's little AWD Honda the other day though as they were stuck on a hill and I almost saw it too late on the ice. That is the one bad thing about those Air BB guests in the winter. Its an unusual, off grid subdivision being so close to town, but we love it. But I lay out new subdivisions like this for a profitable hobby now as well, so it makes sense. A realtor in Idaho called this weekend and wants me to purchase 487 acres with winter access only by snow machine. A bit out of my comfort zone, but after some research and seeing other small communities in the area built out, I just might! They even have stops along the way with restaurants, gas stations, hot springs and motels...all off grid. So my Albuquerque home has been good preparation for my semi retirement career

The neighborhood came up when searched in Maps. That area could not look any more different than here. They're still building in my general area of town and land is going for about $60,000 a lot so about $250,000 an acre. That would set your 487 acre purchase run about $120 million bucks!

I would love to have some land but it's just no really doable here in my line of work. We have the biggest lot in our neighborhood and it's only 1/3 of an acre - larger parcels are not only difficult to find but a bit too expensive to be practical when found.

 

[Mountain4x4]

The lots I sell very quite bit, but with a similar formula. Generally I do 1-12 acres depending on location. My next one is near a ski area in Colorado and will Average 235K for 5 acres, all with views, some with a large creek and access to phone and power. The Idaho property would target maybe 129K for 5 acres. I find that even crazy having to use snow machines in the winter, but one 1.2 acre lot is priced at 205,000 right now and much further in I try to find bulk land for a bargain so I can be affordable, and crush the market. I have another one that is Utah Colorado Canyon country on a river I am trying to acquire, and targeting 119K for 2 acres, a little more right on the river. But that includes power, water and community sewer. I only target the most beautiful, remote places with water and endless outdoor recreation. The only thing I would come east for would be a Cave Exploration centric community somewhere. But its low on the priority list as logistics would be hard, and western parcels make more sense for outdoor enthusiasts in general.

 

[HERMAN]

All,

I owned and loved my 110 NAS but wow I could not even list all the things I would change here on this post. I drove the 110 with ARB's everywhere as I did my 72 series. I drove the Grenadier twice and it had superior everything steering and power included. ALL of the issues were corrected or never existed with this design. Coming from a Defender this truck is incredible. I can't wait to challenge it in the Mojave and elsewhere in N America. And I can't wait for the aftermarket to roll out some add on's. Great job in my opinion.

 

[[ Adam ]]

All,

I owned and loved my 110 NAS but wow I could not even list all the things I would change here on this post. I drove the 110 with ARB's everywhere as I did my 72 series. I drove the Grenadier twice and it had superior everything steering and power included. ALL of the issues were corrected or never existed with this design. Coming from a Defender this truck is incredible. I can't wait to challenge it in the Mojave and elsewhere in N America. And I can't wait for the aftermarket to roll out some add on's. Great job in my opinion.

Agreed 100%. This is everything my 90 never was and that I tried to turn my 110 into. It is spectacular.

 

[Lars]

I think you guys took the Troll Bait. It is difficult to imagine someone coming from an electric vehicle to a Grenadier, they are very different mind sets. An electric city car to a Purpose Built off-roader? Not likely. Could you imagine a Subaru driver even in a Grenadier

Yes I can

 

[Zimm]

The returning force comes somewhat from toe in/out and mainly from the caster.

Changing the height of the car via a suspension lift reduces the force as it reduces the caster.

AWo

It s 5 link. On something with a single radius arm like an fj80 or 2016 G wagon, yes lift will do that, but with a 5 link, they can increase, decrease, or make it completely neutral, or whatever they want when the axle articulates. My guess is, it's close to neutral throughout the range. If return to center continues to be an issue, my guess is someone will come out with some offset bushings to add some caster.