Higher Spec/Luxury Grenadier in the works ???

[Stu_Barnes]

There have been reports of multiple petrol/gasoline and Diesel engine options available on the build your grenadier website.

https://www.theineosforum.com/post/diesel-vs-gas-implications-for-rtw-11929875?pid=1328808602


Ok, so thats a pretty specific tech error to have a separate pair of additional engines for the Grenadier that specifically say twin turbocharging....

So hear me out with this.

I'm thinking that maybe it wasn't such an error (as in an option thats fleshed out as a stand alone item) and perhaps an Easter egg for a more powerful option after the initial release. They have the option of lockers already, if this were intended as a solely off road / work vehicle, why would you have an option for lockers and not have it as a standard fitment? I'm not referring to fleet vehicles here, that would be a separate options list I'm sure.

Its not a far stretch for them to go a bit more upmarket with this vehicle, they already have the modern functional design dashboard and leather seats as an option, leather steering wheel is not an option, just the color. In a modern vehicle what really makes it luxury/premium? Electric seats, power windows (I've not seen any window winders on the renderings...), additional soundproofing and central locking with smart key. Everything else the Grenadier has, they've been taking time at great lengths to emphasize the ride and handling of the Grenadier, which would be the last thing on the list to make it a luxury/premium vehicle. 

Then we get to power, more power has always been seen as a more luxury/premium offering.  A more powerful option would perhaps appeal more to the mall crawlers to make this a bit more main stream friendly. After all Ineos will be in this business to make money after the passion project wears off, and the more specced up a certain model vehicle is the higher the margin and we know Sir Jim is a canny fellow.

A more powerful variant would be easier to go toe to toe with LR and MB.

Let's not forget that people pay an obscene amount of money for a modernized original defender with mod cons, so the market is there.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

That's a compelling theory Stu! I don't disagree in the merits of what you've postulated. There will always be people who want the luxurious version of a tool, after all, so might as well create one to sell it to them!

The only thing I'm wondering about -- is there a precedent of a twin-turbo B58 in petrol? I think the Diesel is twin-turbo regardless, so similar question - is there a single-turbo option in the diesel B58? 

 

[PL1]

I'm inclined to throw cold water on the prospect of a more upmarket version.  The original vision for the Grenadier was to fill the market space left by the new Defender.  Rugged, off-road capabilities with the emphasis on Utility in SUV, and looking around this forum and other sites, it seems like there's a lot of interest.  I think INEOS have their hands full to deliver the 4 door and the pick-up and I don't know why they would dilute their engineering resources to go up market at this time.
My advice to Sir Jim - not that he asked for it...  Do one thing really well and then look at how to follow it up.  

 

[Spjnr]

Have to agree with PL1. Also, as Stu mentions, there's not much more needed for the Grenadier to be considered luxury. The simplicity in the vehicle is from an engineering and systems standpoint, not a comfort or quality one.
I think the Grenadiers success will be in becoming what the old defender was;  a vehicle that transcend class and wealth, to represent utilitarianism in its purest form, whilst shunning the notions of excess and extravagance. 

Anyone can drive one, and that's what makes them cool ?

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I don't disagree with either PL1 or Spjnr.  There's one element to consider:

The Grenadier costs X to produce, and they make Y profit. 

Putting in fancy, luxury nods - like a Luis Vitton pattern on the seats or whatever the heck the modern G-wagon comes with -- allows them to cost X + a few thousand to produce, but allows them to sell them for 5Y. 

The Mercedes is a great example, as per this article:

Adding the APS kit [Note: This is a military armour kit as per the article- CoT] raises the top-end price of a G-Wagon to a hefty $130,000 from $44,000, according to a Canadian Forces spokesperson.

As a Canadian, the price to buy a G-Wagen is:

 


There's no way on this pale blue dot we call Earth that the "Luxury" spec costs anywhere near $100k more to make than the "Military" spec version at $44k. Leather seats and infotainment might add a few tens of thousands at the extreme, but the rest is pure profit. And I'd bet that at $44k, Mercedes isn't losing money on the Mil-spec G-Wagen either. 

To be clear I don't think they SHOULD create a luxury spec of the Gren, and I think part of what makes it special is it's everyman appeal, but it's possible they will produce a few for the posers in Hollywood if they think they can sell enough of them; its hard to argue with profit margins like that, though of course the economy of scale would need to be there and that may be tricky with the Gren's low production numbers. Certainly, as PL1 mentioned, I think they will be busy enough selling every one of the "Everyman" versions they can make without investing the resources into luxury options for the first few years (at least I hope that's the case).

 

[PL1]

Going more upmarket by default means adding more electronics, and the Grenadier videos I've seen all say; that's why the seats are manually adjusted, manually adjusted mirrors, no air suspension, etc.  
It's a personal use case, but I want to leave work in good clothes, get out-of-town with a family full of stuff to ski or mountain bike.  I'm ok that the positioning of the Grenadier is at the Utility end of the scale.  Most (all?) the Range Rovers, G-wagens, Landcruisers I see have never seen a snow covered road or a forest service road.  Most owners have no idea what the offroad controls are for.
IMO, it's a very small market for pimped out Defenders, Toyota FJ's and older G-wagens, but it's not up to me to tell someone what they should spend their money on

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Going more upmarket by default means adding more electronics, and the Grenadier videos I've seen all say; that's why the seats are manually adjusted, manually adjusted mirrors, no air suspension, etc.  
It's a personal use case, but I want to leave work in good clothes, get out-of-town with a family full of stuff to ski or mountain bike.  I'm ok that the positioning of the Grenadier is at the Utility end of the scale.  Most (all?) the Range Rovers, G-wagens, Landcruisers I see have never seen a snow covered road or a forest service road.  Most owners have no idea what the offroad controls are for.
IMO, it's a very small market for pimped out Defenders, Toyota FJ's and older G-wagens, but it's not up to me to tell someone what they should spend their money on

I don't disagree and in fact I'm 100% aligned with you. I want the Grenadier to be purely utility. All I'm suggesting is they can release a high trim version and it will probably sell. It's not necessarily a given on the more electronics thing -- the people I'm thinking would buy an Upmarket Grenadier are people who, like you've identified, generally don't know what 4x4 is let alone how to use a diff lock. So the bare bones vehicle is fine, it just needs to be "fancied up" with a few brand partnerships. Ineos already own Belstaff, which charges over a grand for a cotton jacket with wax on it, so they aren't strangers to the "luxury brands" game. The people I'm thinking of want to be seen - athletes and actors making millions per year to appear in the news at nightclubs (the same people who right now buy G-Wagens in North America). The vehicle itself is irrelevant as long as it fits an image of "special", and it's easy to "upfit" a Grenadier to have fancy Italian leather seats, a fancier sound system, obnoxious wheels with garish chrome, a unique paint job, and a few other trivial changes that allow you to slap a 'Special Edition' label on the side and charge $150k for it. In comparison,  there's been a market for "Upmarket" Classic Defenders too, like these:

https://www.motor1.com/news/29962/land-rover-defender-limited-edition-by-prindiville-design/

https://www.bowlermotors.com/bowler-cars/bowler-csp575/

Interestingly, I don't see the same thing happening to the 70-series Land Cruisers (Arguably, Toyota has done this themselves with the "luxirification" of the 300 series). But there is precedent in the 4x4 world for a high-priced, luxury version of a bare-bones 4x4.

"A fool and his money are soon parted", as they say -- all I'm saying is there's a possibility that Ineos will take advantage of that too, and make an upmarket version just for the "fools".  And like you I don't care what the "fools" spend their money on -- if it makes it easier to get me a barebones Gren because they are making more profit, all the better! And even better - if they sell a few Special Edition Grenadiers to rich Hollywood types, and with the profits they donate a few more rigs to groups like the Halo Trust, then I might even get on board with this as a decent idea ?

 

[PL1]

Good points...  I had not thought about the actor / pro athlete / social media crowd because I don't hang out in that demographic.  My 'crowd' are more interested in getting to the mountains early, leaving first tracks, and getting back to the car with the ski patrol.  If the Grenadier is covered in mud or snow - judge me on that.   ?

I have seen the Belstaff logo on the INEOS AC75 but I didn't know the brand was owned by INEOS.  I was more interested in watching ETNZ sail off into the distance. 

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Good points...  I had not thought about the actor / pro athlete / social media crowd because I don't hang out in that demographic.  My 'crowd' are more interested in getting to the mountains early, leaving first tracks, and getting back to the car with the ski patrol.  If the Grenadier is covered in mud or snow - judge me on that.   ?

I have seen the Belstaff logo on the INEOS AC75 but I didn't know the brand was owned by INEOS.  I was more interested in watching ETNZ sail off into the distance. 

Sounds like we have the same crowd more or less, PL1 ? 

I don't know if they are part or full owners of Belstaff - I just noticed it's listed as one of their "Consumer Brands":  https://www.ineos.com/about/consumer-brands/

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Well with Belstaff they already have the merchandising worked out.

Grenadier embossed wax jacket and rain boots anyone.....

But back on topic, as mentioned earlier there is always a contingent that wants a 'this' with more of 'that' just look at all the gentrification companies that have started on the original Series Land Rovers and Defenders. I do see a 'Bespoke by Grenadier' sometime in the future.

 

[Spjnr]

A good friend of mine has a company doing this with jeeps (not just aesthetic, he does propper offroad builds too, just that's not the biggest market in the UK.) If the market for luxury Grenadiers is there, it will be exploited by the aftermarket pretty quickly. However with limited production slots, maybe Ineos are just looking to keep the initial few years concentrating on getting the standard grens out there