Has anyone used Lemon Law or Buy Back?

[Jackattack13]

If it's a Lemon why are you still driving it? Surely, if it's not fit for purpose, you should return the vehicle and not try to repair it?

Please, brief of us of the process once you declare the vehicle is unfit for purposes?

The lemon law in the U.S. is different per state. My state says if a vehicle has been in the shop for 45 days or more within the first year, or repairs have been unsuccessful 3 times or more than the vehicle is considered a lemon. My vehicle has had both. Been in the shop aprox 60 days, and currently still in the shop. And 4th attempt to fix it.

As for driving it, it's still operable. Although I am not 100 percent sure the safety features such as AEB would work correctly if needed.

And trust me, if it was that easy to return it, it would of been back with the dealer months ago. Although we have the consumer laws in place, they aren't setup in a way that you can just simply return the vehicle to your dealer with a receipt and get your money back. In fact my dealer didn't want to even discuss a buy back with me. Instead insisting that the Service Dept would get me fixed up.

 

[Dlucky]

The lemon law in the U.S. is different per state. My state says if a vehicle has been in the shop for 45 days or more within the first year, or repairs have been unsuccessful 3 times or more than the vehicle is considered a lemon. My vehicle has had both. Been in the shop aprox 60 days, and currently still in the shop. And 4th attempt to fix it.

As for driving it, it's still operable. Although I am not 100 percent sure the safety features such as AEB would work correctly if needed.

And trust me, if it was that easy to return it, it would have been back with the dealer months ago. Although we have the consumer laws in place, they aren't setup in a way that you can just simply return the vehicle to your dealer with a receipt and get your money back. In fact my dealer didn't want to even discuss a buy back with me. Instead insisting that the Service Dept would get me fixed up.

I have a feeling the lemon law attorneys will have steady work with these trucks

 

[Jackattack13]

I have a feeling the lemon law attorneys will have steady work with these trucks

I agree. The AC problems people are experiencing alone will keep them busy. I don't think they understand the U.S. lemon laws. That you can't have clear issues that people are experiencing, turn your back and act like nothing is wrong, or continually state a fix is coming with no actual fix coming. People who pay 6 figures for a car don't have patience for that kind of stuff.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I agree. The AC problems people are experiencing alone will keep them busy. I don't think they understand the U.S. lemon laws. That you can't have clear issues that people are experiencing, turn your back and act like nothing is wrong, or continually state a fix is coming with no actual fix coming. People who pay 6 figures for a car don't have patience for that kind of stuff.

Ineos customer care called me after my recent test drive, asked about my experience and thoughts on the vehicle. What’s good and what can be improved. Call lasted for 20 mins. I was surprised they invest this much effort on presale relationship.

I told them my entire test drive was conducted while the vehicle had non working AC. If only Ineos would acknowledge the problem formally as a TSB, that alone would be a huge boost of confidence for a potential buyer.

Instead, I am doubting the viability of this ownership experience, which is the primary reason why I have not yet decided on purchasing.

 

[Jackattack13]

Ineos customer care called me after my recent test drive, asked about my experience and thoughts on the vehicle. What’s good and what can be improved. Call lasted for 20 mins. I was surprised they invest this much effort on presale relationship.

I told them my entire test drive was conducted while the vehicle had non working AC. If only Ineos would acknowledge the problem formally as a TSB, that alone would be a huge boost of confidence for a potential buyer.

Instead, I am doubting the viability of this ownership experience, which is the primary reason why I have not yet decided on purchasing.

Exactly. The gaslighting is a real problem with the post purchase customer care. Hundreds of posts regarding AC issues. I recently experienced it in my loaner Gren. AC failed in 108F temps while on a road trip. My pregnant fiance in the car. Hair dryer level temp air coming out of the vents. All I can say is, I am glad the loaner isn't my personal car.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Exactly. The gaslighting is a real problem with the post purchase customer care. Hundreds of posts regarding AC issues. I recently experienced it in my loaner Gren. AC failed in 108F temps while on a road trip. My pregnant fiance in the car. Hair dryer level temp air coming out of the vents. All I can say is, I am glad the loaner isn't my personal car.

What dealer are you working with? And what’s the build date of your vehicle?

 

[LeeroyJ]

The lemon law in the U.S. is different per state. My state says if a vehicle has been in the shop for 45 days or more within the first year, or repairs have been unsuccessful 3 times or more than the vehicle is considered a lemon. My vehicle has had both. Been in the shop aprox 60 days, and currently still in the shop. And 4th attempt to fix it.

As for driving it, it's still operable. Although I am not 100 percent sure the safety features such as AEB would work correctly if needed.

And trust me, if it was that easy to return it, it would of been back with the dealer months ago. Although we have the consumer laws in place, they aren't setup in a way that you can just simply return the vehicle to your dealer with a receipt and get your money back. In fact my dealer didn't want to even discuss a buy back with me. Instead insisting that the Service Dept would get me fixed up.

If they fix the issue this time, does it still qualify as a lemon? If you really are wanting a buyback and you have already met the eligibility requirements to have it deemed a lemon, then perhaps it is risky to let Ineos have another go at fixing it?

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Does anyone know if there is a fix yet for the AC issue? Ive had countless times the AC has failed and have brought it to the dealer twice but of course it always works fine when I take it in. I asked the dealer if there was a known fix for the problem and they just said "each customer complaint must be dealt with separately and not considered part of a larger problem like the AC issue". that's a paraphrase. Essentially they are not admitting there is an AC issue so when I bring it in after the AC crapped the bed for the hundredth time if they personally don't see the problem they have no obligation to fix it. I kind of understand but I also don't because the issue is SO widespread. I have heard zero from Ineos after emails and calls and the dealer just said if it happens again during business hours drive to the dealer and don't turn the engine off so they can witness it themselves.
I have a thousand mile road trip I am leaving on today with truck loaded with rafting gear and will be driving across the southwest, fingers crossed the AC decides to work.

 

[LeeroyJ]

Does anyone know if there is a fix yet for the AC issue? Ive had countless times the AC has failed and have brought it to the dealer twice but of course it always works fine when I take it in. I asked the dealer if there was a known fix for the problem and they just said "each customer complaint must be dealt with separately and not considered part of a larger problem like the AC issue". that's a paraphrase. Essentially they are not admitting there is an AC issue so when I bring it in after the AC crapped the bed for the hundredth time if they personally don't see the problem they have no obligation to fix it. I kind of understand but I also don't because the issue is SO widespread. I have heard zero from Ineos after emails and calls and the dealer just said if it happens again during business hours drive to the dealer and don't turn the engine off so they can witness it themselves.
I have a thousand mile road trip I am leaving on today with truck loaded with rafting gear and will be driving across the southwest, fingers crossed the AC decides to work.

This is the solution that has been working for me, give this a try, I know it has worked for others too (this is post #54 from this thread:

I hadn't seen this thread before or I would have responded earlier: I had the same problem and had my Grenadier shipped to the dealer twice, they were not able to solve it. Eventually through trial and error I found a work-around that avoids the issue.

You are now a pilot - you have a pre-departure and pre-shutdown procedure you must follow, here it is:

1) Before starting the Grenadier confirm:
All three HVAC dials are turned completely counter clockwise (i.e. fan off, full cold, front vents selected).
Turn the ignition one click (i.e. before the turning the engine)
Allow all the warning lights to go off (one or two will remain, but essentially you are letting the computer wake up and do its self-checks before turning over the engine).
Now start the engine.
Make sure the a/c compressor is on
Don't use the auto function
Adjust the fan and temp and vent selectors to preference

2) Before shutdown:
Return all three HVAC dials to the full counter clockwise position.

If the problem happens again (it has for me a few times when I forgot step 2), go to step 2 and then shut down the engine. Before going back to step 1, leave the ignition fully off for at least 3 and a half minutes (that is how long it takes the computer to fully shut down).

Doing this has been 100% successful in avoiding and correcting the problem.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

This is the solution that has been working for me, give this a try, I know it has worked for others too (this is post #54 from this thread:

I saw that and was doing that every time I drove it. I didn’t have any issues for a few days doing that procedure and I still do that procedure now but I’ve since had the AC fail at least 8 times since doing that procedure. It used to be the AC would fail pretty quick upon start up but now I can drive for 10-20 minutes with cold AC and then it will fail.
I don’t think there are any tricks to get it to work, I think it’s just pure luck when it works and hope it works more than it fails.

 

[Jackattack13]

If they fix the issue this time, does it still qualify as a lemon? If you really are wanting a buyback and you have already met the eligibility requirements to have it deemed a lemon, then perhaps it is risky to let Ineos have another go at fixing it?

Believe it or not, it actually helps your case more when you give them more chances to fix it. The more attempts, the more time it's spent in shop and not in the customers hands.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

Believe it or not, it actually helps your case more when you give them more chances to fix it. The more attempts, the more time it's spent in shop and not in the customers hands.

But if they don’t find anything to fix can’t they just say no problem found? Don’t they have to have a problem to fix?

 

[Jackattack13]

But if they don’t find anything to fix can’t they just say no problem found? Don’t they have to have a problem to fix?

The corporate reps came out and verified the problem. The same problem they have tried to fix 3 times already.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

The corporate reps came out and verified the problem. The same problem they have tried to fix 3 times already.

My dealer said the believe I’m having AC failure but unless they see it themselves they can’t work on it. That is what Ineos told the dealer.

 

[DaveB]

Does anyone know if there is a fix yet for the AC issue? Ive had countless times the AC has failed and have brought it to the dealer twice but of course it always works fine when I take it in. I asked the dealer if there was a known fix for the problem and they just said "each customer complaint must be dealt with separately and not considered part of a larger problem like the AC issue". that's a paraphrase. Essentially they are not admitting there is an AC issue so when I bring it in after the AC crapped the bed for the hundredth time if they personally don't see the problem they have no obligation to fix it. I kind of understand but I also don't because the issue is SO widespread. I have heard zero from Ineos after emails and calls and the dealer just said if it happens again during business hours drive to the dealer and don't turn the engine off so they can witness it themselves.
I have a thousand mile road trip I am leaving on today with truck loaded with rafting gear and will be driving across the southwest, fingers crossed the AC decides to work.

I don't understand. If the aircon works fine every time you take it in then maybe the problem is that you are not using it correctly.
No idea what you could possibly be doing incorrectly but we have had quite a few people with problems that ended up being due to a strange series of operations required, such as setting the difflocks.
I had two auto electricians looking over my car and they said they had not seen that time of aircon unit in a vehicle before.
I can't remember what they said but it may have been that it is a heat exchange unit instead of a compressor??
My aircon is nowhere near as good as the one in my Mercedes but it seems to work fine.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

I don't understand. If the aircon works fine every time you take it in then maybe the problem is that you are not using it correctly.
No idea what you could possibly be doing incorrectly but we have had quite a few people with problems that ended up being due to a strange series of operations required, such as setting the difflocks.
I had two auto electricians looking over my car and they said they had not seen that time of aircon unit in a vehicle before.
I can't remember what they said but it may have been that it is a heat exchange unit instead of a compressor??
My aircon is nowhere near as good as the one in my Mercedes but it seems to work fine.

It’s an intermittent AC failure. AC set to the coolest temp and maybe once out of every 10 times I drive it the AC will blow warm air in the front and extremely hot air in the back vents 150 Fahrenheit and sometimes hotter. Usually if I stop and let the car sit for 10 minutes with the motor off it will work fine but one day this month while on a trip it was stuck blowing hot air for 6 hours and no amount of messing with the controls would fix it. Ever Grenadier owner I know has the exact same issue. Because it’s so intermittent when I have taken it to the dealer it works fine and I can’t replicate it. The dealer has admitted there is a widespread problem but unless they actually see it for themselves they won’t fix it.

 

[Jackattack13]

It’s an intermittent AC failure. AC set to the coolest temp and maybe once out of every 10 times I drive it the AC will blow warm air in the front and extremely hot air in the back vents 150 Fahrenheit and sometimes hotter. Usually if I stop and let the car sit for 10 minutes with the motor off it will work fine but one day this month while on a trip it was stuck blowing hot air for 6 hours and no amount of messing with the controls would fix it. Ever Grenadier owner I know has the exact same issue. Because it’s so intermittent when I have taken it to the dealer it works fine and I can’t replicate it. The dealer has admitted there is a widespread problem but unless they actually see it for themselves they won’t fix it.

That's what my loaner was doing. On manual it was warm air in the front, hair dryer temps in the back. Put it in auto mode. Much warmer in the front. Foot burning air coming out the foot vents and rear.

Stopped for 10 minutes thinking it would reset. Nope. Got to destination, pulled the HVAC fuses, reset the car, put them back in and it worked again as it should.

There appears to be some kind of software bug. But I do know the air coming out of vents was WAYYYY too hot. No reason for a heater to blow that temp off air in a car. It literally burned my foot on the gas pedal in sandals.

 

[Kevin Mokracek]

That's what my loaner was doing. On manual it was warm air in the front, hair dryer temps in the back. Put it in auto mode. Much warmer in the front. Foot burning air coming out the foot vents and rear.

Stopped for 10 minutes thinking it would reset. Nope. Got to destination, pulled the HVAC fuses, reset the car, put them back in and it worked again as it should.

There appears to be some kind of software bug. But I do know the air coming out of vents was WAYYYY too hot. No reason for a heater to blow that temp off air in a car. It literally burned my foot on the gas pedal in sandals.

That's what my loaner was doing. On manual it was warm air in the front, hair dryer temps in the back. Put it in auto mode. Much warmer in the front. Foot burning air coming out the foot vents and rear.

Stopped for 10 minutes thinking it would reset. Nope. Got to destination, pulled the HVAC fuses, reset the car, put them back in and it worked again as it should.

There appears to be some kind of software bug. But I do know the air coming out of vents was WAYYYY too hot. No reason for a heater to blow that temp off air in a car. It literally burned my foot on the gas pedal in sandals.

Yep, the heat coming out is dangerously hot. I was a fireman for 30 years and am not easily concerned but this is a very definite fire hazard. It just seems to get hotter and hotter. I can’t believe Ineos hasn’t addressed this issue.

 

[LeeroyJ]

I don't understand. If the aircon works fine every time you take it in then maybe the problem is that you are not using it correctly.
No idea what you could possibly be doing incorrectly but we have had quite a few people with problems that ended up being due to a strange series of operations required, such as setting the difflocks.
I had two auto electricians looking over my car and they said they had not seen that time of aircon unit in a vehicle before.
I can't remember what they said but it may have been that it is a heat exchange unit instead of a compressor??
My aircon is nowhere near as good as the one in my Mercedes but it seems to work fine.

In my case, while I can live with it if I continue following the start-up and shutdown procedure I described above, I certainly wouldn't say that means the HVAC system is working correctly or as designed.

More specifically, the manual does not say I should have to do the steps in order to not have the HVAC system go nuts and ignore my selection of temps and vents. I should, according to the manual, be able to simply set the temp to my desired level and use the auto button and let the car manage the fan speed and vents to efficiently achieve those settings. Using auto does not work in my Grenadier and never has. If I try to use the auto function, or I don't follow the start-up and shut-down procedures I mentioned above, I get extremely hot air blown out of the rear vents, warm air out of the driver's vent, and cold air out of the passenger vent, regardless of how I change the temp dial or vent selectors.

I'm not sure if that is the same sort of problem that @Kevin Mokracek is having, but that has been my issue. To make it worse, when I've taken it to the dealer three times for this (6 hours of driving one way) Murphy's law caused the issue to not re-occur, so the dealer could not diagnose it based on anything other than my description of the problem.

It speaks volumes about how much I like the rest of the vehicle that I have had the patience to deal with this at all given that mine cost $106K once you include all the fees and taxes. But make no mistake, that does not mean my HVAC is not defective or that Ineos has resolved the problem just because I've figured out a way to work around it.

 

[DaveB]

In my case, while I can live with it if I continue following the start-up and shutdown procedure I described above, I certainly wouldn't say that means the HVAC system is working correctly or as designed.

More specifically, the manual does not say I should have to do the steps in order to not have the HVAC system go nuts and ignore my selection of temps and vents. I should, according to the manual, be able to simply set the temp to my desired level and use the auto button and let the car manage the fan speed and vents to efficiently achieve those settings. Using auto does not work in my Grenadier and never has. If I try to use the auto function, or I don't follow the start-up and shut-down procedures I mentioned above, I get extremely hot air blown out of the rear vents, warm air out of the driver's vent, and cold air out of the passenger vent, regardless of how I change the temp dial or vent selectors.

I'm not sure if that is the same sort of problem that @Kevin Mokracek is having, but that has been my issue. To make it worse, when I've taken it to the dealer three times for this (6 hours of driving one way) Murphy's law caused the issue to not re-occur, so the dealer could not diagnose it based on anything other than my description of the problem.

It speaks volumes about how much I like the rest of the vehicle that I have had the patience to deal with this at all given that mine cost $106K once you include all the fees and taxes. But make no mistake, that does not mean my HVAC is not defective or that Ineos has resolved the problem just because I've figured out a way to work around it.

I just read the manual on the aircon and it says on auto it will control the temperature of the air but doesn't say it controls the fan speed.
It doesn't have dual or multi zone capabilities like many new vehicles so It does seem strange that it can push different temperature air out of different vents.
Obviously it does in your case, but logically it shouldn't be able to.
From everything I can see it has one aircon unit with one outlet, going to multiple vents.
I must admit I am usually in the vehicle by myself about 80% of the time so find I rarely change the aircon setting.
It is on auto and 22 degrees.