Comparaison Grenadier / Mercedes Classe G

[Steve.B]

Differences between the Grenadier and the G:

The predecessor of the latest G has rigid axles which produce resistance against articulation. They use trailing arms for the front and rear axle which are mounted at three points, one at the chassis and two at the axle, as you can see here:

View attachment 7809070

View attachment 7809071

They "do not like" to entangle. That is good for road performance as this is self stabilizing. Just take a G onto a lifting plattform and put a transmission jack under one of the rear wheels and pump it up. You can see that after a few centimeters of lifting the other side follows. Same at the front axle. The Defender has the same principle, but only at the front axle. The G compensates the lack of entanglement with its diff locks. You can see here, why it doesn't entagle well:

View attachment 7809073

The Grenadier uses Four-Link-Axles in the front and rear. It is quite common at rear axles and the latest G-Model uses Four-Link-Axles in the back, as well. It is not common for front axles. The only other car I know which has (very short) Four-Links at the front axle is the Jeep Wrangler, which is the reference in offroad driving today.

View attachment 7809075

That leads to very easy entanglement. It is easy for the axle to entangle and follow the terrain (however, diff locks are always the better choice as a you also need ground pressure when the axle ist entangled to get grip. But often the axles entagle but they lack this ground pressure). Easy entanglement with no opposite force leads to poorer road performance than the other concepts, what makes a stabilizer necessary. If you can lock and unlock the stabilizer you have a good compromise.

However, one of the best axle systems is that of the Discovery 2. It is a Watt-System without a Panhard bar. It keeps the axle in the middle which is important for towing and fast driving on bad tracks. It entangles very well and holds the axle precisely in the middle.

View attachment 7809072


But you can't use such a system in the front as it is necessary that the axle can move sideways (caused by the Panhard bar). Otherwise your steering wheel would turn heavily each time the axle dives in or dives out. The Panhard bar at the rear axle is also a common (small) drawback for towing and (a bigger) drawback for fast driving on bad tracks. The rear axle is important for driving stability. If the car dives in and out at the rear (also caused by a trailer) its rear moves sideways. That could lead to a trailer pushing the rear of the car sideways on bad tracktion roads (wet tarmac or wet leaves on the road for example).

View attachment 7809074

Cheers
AWo

Brilliant post AWo.
Possibly the best article I have read so far on this forum.

 

[DenisM]

Differences between the Grenadier and the G:

The predecessor of the latest G has rigid axles which produce resistance against articulation. They use trailing arms for the front and rear axle which are mounted at three points, one at the chassis and two at the axle, as you can see here:

View attachment 7809070

View attachment 7809071

They "do not like" to entangle. That is good for road performance as this is self stabilizing. Just take a G onto a lifting plattform and put a transmission jack under one of the rear wheels and pump it up. You can see that after a few centimeters of lifting the other side follows. Same at the front axle. The Defender has the same principle, but only at the front axle. The G compensates the lack of entanglement with its diff locks. You can see here, why it doesn't entagle well:

View attachment 7809073

The Grenadier uses Four-Link-Axles in the front and rear. It is quite common at rear axles and the latest G-Model uses Four-Link-Axles in the back, as well. It is not common for front axles. The only other car I know which has (very short) Four-Links at the front axle is the Jeep Wrangler, which is the reference in offroad driving today.

View attachment 7809075

That leads to very easy entanglement. It is easy for the axle to entangle and follow the terrain (however, diff locks are always the better choice as a you also need ground pressure when the axle ist entangled to get grip. But often the axles entagle but they lack this ground pressure). Easy entanglement with no opposite force leads to poorer road performance than the other concepts, what makes a stabilizer necessary. If you can lock and unlock the stabilizer you have a good compromise.

However, one of the best axle systems is that of the Discovery 2. It is a Watt-System without a Panhard bar. It keeps the axle in the middle which is important for towing and fast driving on bad tracks. It entangles very well and holds the axle precisely in the middle.

View attachment 7809072


But you can't use such a system in the front as it is necessary that the axle can move sideways (caused by the Panhard bar). Otherwise your steering wheel would turn heavily each time the axle dives in or dives out. The Panhard bar at the rear axle is also a common (small) drawback for towing and (a bigger) drawback for fast driving on bad tracks. The rear axle is important for driving stability. If the car dives in and out at the rear (also caused by a trailer) its rear moves sideways. That could lead to a trailer pushing the rear of the car sideways on bad tracktion roads (wet tarmac or wet leaves on the road for example).

View attachment 7809074

Cheers
AWo

Thanks AWo for an excellent description.
Just one point of clarification.. I'd not come across the term " entanglement " in respect of axle movement. I think the term "articulation" you refer to in the first paragraph is the correct one. Axles "articulate" with terrain changes. Entanglement normally refers to things getting caught up in something else..e g. loose clothing caught in spikey bushes.

 

[Steve.B]

Thanks AWo for an excellent description.
Just one point of clarification.. I'd not come across the term " entanglement " in respect of axle movement. I think the term "articulation" you refer to in the first paragraph is the correct one. Axles "articulate" with terrain changes. Entanglement normally refers to things getting caught up in something else..e g. loose clothing caught in spikey bushes.

I think entanglement is what AWo meant if you have 2 mounting points for the same trailing arm on each side where it attaches to the diff housing axle tube they try to twist the diff housing in opposite directions, counteracting against each other when one rear wheel is high and the other rear wheel is low that entanglement causing a lack of articulation.

 

[Steve.B]

Binding may also work as well as entanglement.

 

[AWo]

Thanks AWo for an excellent description.
Just one point of clarification.. I'd not come across the term " entanglement " in respect of axle movement. I think the term "articulation" you refer to in the first paragraph is the correct one. Axles "articulate" with terrain changes. Entanglement normally refers to things getting caught up in something else..e g. loose clothing caught in spikey bushes.

Exactly. My translater threw out entanglement.

I was able to edit this, should be ok now.

AWo

 

[Regalz]

For what it’s worth, i’m an early deposit holder and I drove my ‘18 G63 to the PTD in Colorado Springs this afternoon and had a nice conversation about the driving differences with my handler Emily. For reference I have a Jeep Gladiator on 35” tires with a two inch lift as well as the G63.

Our conversation went something like this:

1) The G63 is allegedly very capable off road, unfortunately it comes with street/performance tires stock which are next to useless off-road, so unless you have swapped out your tires it’s impossible to compare;

2) The G63 is too plush (ventilated Diamond stitched leather) and expensive to drive in the dirt or let my dog into;

3) the Gladiator has proven to be excellent in both the dirt and for the dog (goose gear rear seat delete platform), but its loud on road and you feel everything off-road;

4) I felt like the IG was the perfect middle ground because it’s not so nice (or expensive) that I avoid getting it dirty and it’s very comfortable off-road without being noisy or jarring.

In fact my GF who drives a Rubicon Unlimited on ’37 tires and rode in the backseat on the IG test drive, couldn’t believe how capable and comfortable the IG was. If we can get the website to work she will be placing a deposit shortly.

I’m sure this has been covered somewhere but I feel like a modest lift/tire combo will really maximize this platform

 

[DCPU]

Is it not 5 link?

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/v-max.12411140/page-3#post-1333161170

 

[Fidei Defensor]

When setting up racecar or performance car suspension it is typically set up per each corner allowing for driver, fluids, general weight distribution.
One reason why the Maclaren had the seat in the centre.

When setting up my D-90 for overlanding (springs/shocks, etc.) I wanted to see how much it weighed with all the kit loaded. My buddy brought over his weighing kit, that had individual scales for each wheel. We did uite a bit of juggling the load-out and got it perfectly balanced, side to side, And found it a lot heavier than expected, so had to select springs accordingly!

 

[jeremy_matrix]

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/v-max.12411140/page-3#post-1333161170

So are we considering the IG to have a 4 OR 5 link, front AND rear?

 

[DaveB]

So are we considering the IG to have a 4 OR 5 link, front AND rear?

 

[DCPU]

So are we considering the IG to have a 4 OR 5 link, front AND rear?

Yes both.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

Ok, so 5 link as we originally thought.

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

View attachment 7809798

The suspension set up is impressive. Lots of reviews have said how the gren handles on twistys. Body roll is almost non existent and it does corner very well for its weight. Once you’ve got the hang of the turn in due to the steering, you can carry A fair amount of speed through the corner and exit without drama or any squealing. I’ve put 350 miles on mine since Friday and apart from heavy and long geared steering, which you get used too, it really is a nice driving car..

 

[DCPU]

you can carry A fair amount of speed through the corner and exit without drama or any squealing.

Is that the car or the passengers?