Brakes?

[rovie]

I’ve never owned a car with Brembo brakes. The brakes in my 2008 RS4 were made by Lamborghini, and the brakes in my Jeep were aftermarket from Dynatrac. One Italian, one American, both awesome.

What’s your experience with Brembo that leads you to think of them as overrated?

Under stress, the Brembo brakes even falls below the friction values of other brakes: temperature-related drop in friction behaviour (fading) is a disadvantage. Disc and pad wear is many times higher than with other products. After only 2-3 millimetres of thickness shrinkage, the permissible disc thickness is reached. Expensive short fun. Furthermore, ATE products achieve top values in wear.

As I said, that is my opinion. Everyone has to decide for themselves and make their own experiences.

 

[DCPU]

I've never understood the raising of a brand, per se, to a pedestal when it may have 10s, 100s or even 1000s of items in it's product range; some of which may be halo products but some may also be value engineered.

Yes Brembo xyz brakes may be absolutely brilliant in a particular application, but that does not stop Brembo churning out thousands of sets of bread & butter/average performance brake sets for say the Iveco Daily.

Indeed, it probably makes more total profit from the mass market "good enough" brakes then selling 50 sets of high performance brake sets to Aston Martin for the latest hypercar.

I imagine the Iveco Daily driver telling his neighbour that his brakes are made by the company that makes brakes for Aston Martin. Sounds impressive but is actually totally meaningless.

 

[emax]

I think you can assume a general minimum level of quality for a brand that is concerned about its reputation. Of course, they have a "mixed calculation", like any company with many products.

But as far as I'm concerned, I don't give a damn about the name. But I have had my experiences with Brembo brakes on my motorcycle and those experiences have been excellent.

As a passionate Alps driver, I share them with other motorcyclists who have seen what is possible and what is not, especially in the Alps, which can push even the best brakes to their limits with extremely long downhill sections, with Brembo as well as with other brands.

And the fact is that the Brembos generally allow a clearly later braking point than many other brands. This is especially true under stressful conditions, with hot brakes after an intense downhill run. However, I am of course referring to motorcycles that have roughly the same level of competition.

This is not about a brand, nor is it about an opinion. It's all about the experience with a Brembo configuration that works great.

 

[Caladan]

My 2013 MINI GP2 has Brembo six-piston front brakes from factory. In that size/weight of car, those brakes are simply amazing.

 

[stickshifter]

Some pretty good sports cars come with Brembo brakes:

Alfa Romeo 4C
Chevrolet Camaro
Corvette Stingray
Dodge Viper SRT
Ferrari 488 GTB
Ferrari California T
Ford Mustang
LaFerrari
Lamborghini Aventador
Lexus RC F
Nissan GT-R
Pagani Huayra

But I've never known anyone to upgrade their 4x4 to Brembo. In the American 4x4 scene, most brake-upgrades are to either Dynatrac or Wilwood (both American-made), or the brakes that come with an axle upgrade (Dynatrac 60, Dana Ultimate 60, or Terraflex 60). Does anyone know of Brembo applications in the 4x4 world? Just curious...

EDIT: PowerStop brakes are also a popular upgrade in the 4x4 world here - I forgot about them (also made in the US).

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I know I’ll get flamed, but I’m pretty sure it’s Brembo across the range for Land Rover.

 

[stickshifter]

I know I’ll get flamed, but I’m pretty sure it’s Brembo across the range for Land Rover.

No flaming - it looks like the Range Rover Sport is running Brembo from the factory, but the LR4 (Discovery 4) does not come with Brembo from the factory; however, Brembo makes a kit for the LR4 if one wants to upgrade. That was just based on a very quick google...

 

[Max]

> It's just that it's an Italian company
Like Carraro, Ducati, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, MV Agusta ... ;-)

> Alfred Teves Brake from Reinheim/Germany
Surprise. That's my neighboring village, 3Km from here. I never heard about Teves having a branch there?

But maybe you mean another Reinheim ...?

And not forgetting Moto Guzzi...my little V7's back wheel can get very light at times.

 

[Znarfgh]

As long as Ineos does not use soft pads like LR I'm not too fussed. By 120K Km my Disco two had chewed through several sets of pads and a set of rotors and dust was a real issue.

At the same mileage, my Jeep Grand Cherokee is still running its first set of pads and by all reports, pads last a really long time.

Cheers,

DM

 

[DCPU]

Some pretty good sports cars come with Brembo brakes:

Alfa Romeo 4C
Chevrolet Camaro
Corvette Stingray
Dodge Viper SRT
Ferrari 488 GTB
Ferrari California T
Ford Mustang
LaFerrari
Lamborghini Aventador
Lexus RC F
Nissan GT-R
Pagani Huayra

Tell me how many of them are using sliding calipers ~ that's the issue for me...

Brembo make some fantastic brakes, but if Ineos go to the bargain basement bucket at Brembo and say I want those, then it doesn't really matter what Pagani, Ferrari, Lamborghini, et al buy.

 

[DCPU]

As long as Ineos does not use soft pads like LR I'm not too fussed. By 120K Km my Disco two had chewed through several sets of pads and a set of rotors and dust was a real issue.

There's me thinking you really got your money's worth there!

 

[stickshifter]

Tell me how many of them are using sliding calipers ~ that's the issue for me...

Brembo make some fantastic brakes, but if Ineos go to the bargain basement bucket at Brembo and say I want those, then it doesn't really matter what Pagani, Ferrari, Lamborghini, et al buy.

I understand your point, and I agree with you - even a quick look at their website indicates that you can get Brembo brakes with 2, 4, and 6 pistons, and that's not even getting into variation in materials, or other specs. In other words, there is a range of quality / performance from Brembo (i.e. not all Brembo brakes are the same). I think we're just having different conversations right now; I was interested in whether or not Brembo has a history of producing brakes for 4x4 applications, and for heavier vehicles. The Grenadier isn't as heavy as - let's say a Heavy Duty diesel truck (e.g. Ford F250 or Ram 2500) - but it is heavier than the sports cars that seem most associated with Brembo brakes. But it looks like they have big-brake kits for the LR4 which is roughly the same weight as the Grenadier. I don't know anyone who drives off-road with Brembo, and I'm curious to hear from folks with relevant experience (especially if they know whether their brakes have sliding calipers, how many pistons, etc.).

 

[emax]

E=(m*v²)/2

It's the Vmax which makes the energy. The Grenadier is limited to 160 KMH.

 

[stickshifter]

E=(m*v²)/2

It's the Vmax which makes the energy. The Grenadier is limited to 160 KMH.

Well... most folks in this country don't drive their sports car over 100 mph (and if they do, not very often), so if you've got a lighter-weight sports car going 85, and a Grenadier going 85, the Grenadier will have more energy, and it will be harder to stop. Around town when driving 30-40 mph you've got the same equation. Holding speed constant, the Grenadier will take more stopping power than any sports car.

 

[cheswick]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't the G63 AMG Gwagen use Brembo brakes?

 

[Max]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't the G63 AMG Gwagen use Brembo brakes?

Are AMG made by AMG?

 

[Max]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't the G63 AMG Gwagen use Brembo brakes?

From what I can find Brembo has created braking systems to suit AMG models.

 

[emax]

@stickshifter
It is of course true that heavier weights yield more energy when driving, and I thought this was obvious in context and according to the formula.

What I was trying to point out is that faster moving cars require much stronger brakes than their "slower" counterparts for a comparable weight, because energy increases as the square of speed. Speed, as opposed to weight, is a much stronger factor in this equation.

If compared to other 4x4 vehicles in the relevant class, brake choice is therefore more critical for the faster ones in that class, which the Grenadier is not.

 

[stickshifter]

@stickshifter
It is of course true that heavier weights yield more energy when driving, and I thought this was obvious in context and according to the formula.

What I was trying to point out is that faster moving cars require much stronger brakes than their "slower" counterparts for a comparable weight, because energy increases as the square of speed. Speed, as opposed to weight, is a much stronger factor in this equation.

If compared to other 4x4 vehicles in the relevant class, brake choice is therefore more critical for the faster ones in that class, which the Grenadier is not.

Yes, I fully understood your post, and the formula. You have missed my point, which is that - most of the time in real world driving - sports cars and SUVs don't travel at different speeds (regardless of the capability of the sports car). The speed limit on highways around here is either 65, 75, or 85 miles per hour; most vehicles on the road are driving at (or slightly above) those posted speed limits. So... if a Grenadier is doing 85 down the highway, and a sports car weighing 1000 pounds less is doing 85 down the highway, the Grenadier will have more energy, and require more braking power to stop. Driving around town, all cars are going the same speed, so again, a Grenadier will require more force to stop than a car weighing less.

 

[stickshifter]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't the G63 AMG Gwagen use Brembo brakes?

From what I can tell, the G-wagon does not come from the factory with Brembo brakes, but Brembo makes a brake-kit for the G-wagon, so if one so chooses, one can upgrade the factory brakes to Brembo brakes.