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Battery discharge

Tazzieman

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In light of this possibility of damage to the electrics of the source car, would it be safer to use the jumper cables to only (albeit slowly) recharge the other car’s dead battery before entirely disconnecting the cables and allowing the now recharged battery to start the engine?
How long do you wait?
Most of us just want to get on our way asap!
Small portable jump packs are the solution in 2024.
 

Znarfgh

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I would use a condensator-based external starter.

Why?

You do not need to keep it loaded. You can carry it years in your car without taking care about. As long as your car battery has 3 Volts left, which is really low and the battery is crap then, this thing works.

AWo
What is a condensator based starter?
 

Clark Kent

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AWo

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No, it is not that easy...

I try to explain in short words.

Current always flow from the higher potential (higher voltage) to the lower. So some current (call it capacity) will move form the source to the weaker battery. Fine so far. But you will reduce the capacity of the source and thereby pull down the potential of it while the receiving battery raises its potential. The bulk loading will end up soon, when both potential are equal. Tests have shown, that connected batteries with a different potential will have a high current flowing in the beginning, only a few seconds up to some minutes, which then drops to a low current and nothing relevant happens anymore in a short time. If you keep them connected over a longer period, of course, things will continue (to get worse). You always have losses of power while loading, going into the sky as heat. So in the end you loose power and there is no new power coming into the system as there is no power source, only batteries. If you leave them connected you always have a certain rate of self discharging, both batteries will empty themselves over time (with healthy batteries that takes some time). They give power to each other, no battery will stay on its potential level and thereby pull current from the other and vice versa. But due to the losses while loading, the overall capacity decreases.

To load a battery you need a source which gets new power all the time and which is able to keep its potential above the potential of the battery to be loaded. That also compensates the losses of loading. Loading of a battery is running through different phases, for a reason:

1. Bulk loading phase - The potentiol of the source is raised such high, that the maximum loading current is achieved. This currents depends on the internal resistance of the loaded battery and the voltage of the loader. While loading the internal resistance of the receiving battery increases slowly. To keep up the current the voltage must also be increased (Law of Ohm: I = U/R. If R increases, U must increase as well to keep I the same). You can monitor that wth a battery monitor very well.

2. Absorbtion phase - When a certain percentage is reached, the potential is not increased anymore, but the internal resistence still increase. Thereby the current decreases. That is the final loading phase of the battery. When the current fells below a certain level, the battery is considered full. Thereoretically it should become zero, but in the real world, that could take a loooong time, so all battery charging devices and montiroing devices define a certain current, which when reached the battery is considered full.

3. Floating phase - The floating phase keeps the battery fully charged and puts power in which was sucked out or was lost due to self discharging mechanisms.

Why just use the source as the power to crank the engine. That what it is made for and the source battery doesn't know which engine it starts.


AWo
 
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I have just the single battery and noticed that after a couple of days camping that the battery was down to 53%.

I didn't take any power from the vehicle, maybe opened the doors about 10 times per day. The internal light was set Auto off.

It would have been good to have had some kind of mode that didn't turn a load of things on when the doors opened.

I didn't want to give up that storage space under the rear seat, but I suppose a second battery is on the shopping list.
make sure all switches in the overhead panel are switched to off
 

landmannnn

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make sure all switches in the overhead panel are switched to off
Thanks, yes, all off. It's that all the computers fire up whenever you open or shut a door that tends to be the drain.
 

Ovrland Bill

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When you jump start with a second car the electronics on the source generator can be damaged....many say let the engine idle or give it some more revs to support the source battery, but that could lead to a broken regulator. That happens, when too much power is pulled.

Have in mind, when you start your car, the generator is not running, as well. So you don't need that.

AWo
Are you recommending that the engine (and thus its generator-with the vulnerable electronics/regulator) of the source car be switched OFF, before using its battery to jump start the engine of a second car?
 
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Maybe a portable power station for camping and a Noco battery starter in case you flatten the battery for longer camping trips.
In the owners handbook it says "do not start with a quick charger". - Does anyone have an opinion on why not?
 
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The one caveat is to be aware that the battery on the disabled vehicle may have developed an internal fault.
Trying to push 50A+ into a faulty battery can be bad news. From experience the faulty battery may blow a side off, it happened to me once.
I have been in a battery explosion ifs frightening and you can't hear for a week after.
 

Skydance

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In the owners handbook it says "do not start with a quick charger". - Does anyone have an opinion on why not?
I can’t seem any harm if you use the contact points in the engine bay rather directly to the battery which may possibly fry the electronics.
 

Logsplitter

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In the owners handbook it says "do not start with a quick charger". - Does anyone have an opinion on why not?
In my experience they don’t do the batteries much good. We’ve got one and used it a few times on big old tractors and excavators when they had depleted batteries and they don’t seem to last long with a few uses of these bits of kit. Batteries get quite warm also. A modern smart charger or lithium jump starter such as a Noco boost is a much safer bet and also much smaller and safer to use.
We have an old one like this but no longer used. IMG_1978.jpeg
 
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I have used a NOCO on a demo B57
no problem at all single battery version peace of mind when out of phon signal which for me is Wales lol
 
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