Axles - Comparing the IG Carraro Axle To Dana Axle

[rovie]

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[emax]

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[Ferrugenfish]

[QUOTE username=Guru userid=8878336 postid=1332859210]Finally I have to speak up…....I implore all those who want to comment about bad design etc to think before they post. Do you really think Ineos are going to suddenly bin their axles/engine/gearbox/wheel choice because someone on a forum doesn’t agree with their decision.?

Rant over….[/QUOTE]

Glad that's over self-proclaimed Guru.  Look, It's a forum, people clearly talk about wishes in addition to praise and excitement and desires, and YES, this is all feedback that Ineos likely reads at some point.  What is definitely not needed is opinion-on-opinion attack.  Ineos' feelings were not hurt in the process so try to manage yours. 

 

[Ragman]

[QUOTE username=stickshifter userid=8617054 postid=1332851591]Ferrugenfish -

I agree with your assessment. I wrote a similar post a while back - though it was in a thread on tire size - here it is:

Markets differ geographically.......... I really want this vehicle to succeed!

Yup we said different things and yet the same thing. I think Americans will WANT to love this, and many do already. However there is a "...but for..." qualifier in the statement: "I love it... but for _______" (fill in the blank). That blank isn't yet fully solidified as we're not sure exactly how the spec will come out, but as of now, the most glaring thing is factory tire size and 'no rub' guarantee of what we see as a "basic 33 inch tire on which many of us want to upgrade to 35 inches without having to replace half of the new suspension and re-torque the final drive ratio". Those in other countries may see this as unnecessary for THEIR use, but frankly if you lived here on this land, many of you would also see the 33/35 inch tire (with room to grow) as the sweet spot. We just have big rocks we like to go over... simple as that.
[/QUOTE]
I think there are a lot of good points on both of these comments, my two cents is that one needs more than one vehicle as none are perfect for everything. I love my JKU with 35s for many things, but when I go overlanding the payload is so low that with my winch, spare fuel, water, wife and a few duffels of gear the thing is at payload capacity. I know many people don't pay attention to that and load them up despite the downsides on safety and longevity, but not my gig so I will keep the Jeep for the trails and the Grenadier for longer expedition style travel where I can carry more gear, be more comfortable and maybe even have cold food in a fridge!

 

[Boston Boy]

I think I see a split here between those who want a vehicle to get them somewhere to do something (hunt, fish, camp out, ski, hike) and those who doing something in/with the vehicle is the main goal (rock climbing, mudding, etc— off roading as "track day"). I am in the former category. Looking at the vehicle, I think the basic thrust of its design was getting somewhere to to something, especially if you listen to Ineos talk about designing for commercial users: If you are a mining company, an oil company, a power company, an NGO doing humanitarian disaster relief, etc., you want a vehicle that will get your people out there to do something, not just drive around.

 

[Max]

I think I see a split here between those who want a vehicle to get them somewhere to do something (hunt, fish, camp out, ski, hike) and those who doing something in/with the vehicle is the main goal (rock climbing, mudding, etc— off roading as "track day"). I am in the former category. Looking at the vehicle, I think the basic thrust of its design was getting somewhere to to something, especially if you listen to Ineos talk about designing for commercial users: If you are a mining company, an oil company, a power company, an NGO doing humanitarian disaster relief, etc., you want a vehicle that will get your people out there to do something, not just drive around.

Totally agree with your thoughts...There is the sports and entertainment side and then the Built on purpose that started with the land owner[farmer]who would have bought a new Defender if it was built.

 

[DaveB]

I think I see a split here between those who want a vehicle to get them somewhere to do something (hunt, fish, camp out, ski, hike) and those who doing something in/with the vehicle is the main goal (rock climbing, mudding, etc— off roading as "track day"). I am in the former category. Looking at the vehicle, I think the basic thrust of its design was getting somewhere to to something, especially if you listen to Ineos talk about designing for commercial users: If you are a mining company, an oil company, a power company, an NGO doing humanitarian disaster relief, etc., you want a vehicle that will get your people out there to do something, not just drive around.

Yes I also agree.
More of a lifestyle vehicle for people who have outdoor and adventure or hard work lifestyles.
When you see hard core rock crawlers or mud runners in Australia they tend to be purpose built/modified and sometimes not even road registered

 

[CB]

Yes, there are a number of companies in the US which will gladly sell you a new Jeep or Gladiator with both engine and drivetrain swap, along with 40 inch tires, for $150,000 to well over $200,000 US. I doubt anyone here is willing to pay that for a Grenadier. I am very optimistic the stock Grenadier Trialmaster is a better buy than a stock Jeep Rubicon and will do everything I need it to do with the addition of a few accessories. I look forward to seeing and driving it at the event in Tampa next week.

 

[AnD3rew]

I can say confidently that if the type of driving I do is enough to break a Grenadier axle then a) INEOS stuffed up very badly or more likely b) I have gotten myself in way over my head and capabilities. I am not worried

 

[WyomingRoaming]

I place the IG in the midsize category in terms of size/ footprint, like an Explorer. However, the frame and axles are that of a 1500 vehicle, like a suburban so in that regard, it punches above its weight class and is a win. Dana 60s on it would be like an f250 or Ford Excursion (dream SUV as a kid)!

Definitely built to get you there and back, not as the toy such as a jeep, imo. That being said I’ll probably still roughhouse with it on occasion, but the 37s will stay on the JK, and the IG may get some 33s (will definitely get 33s).

If anyone did want to run larger tires and is concerned about axle strength (or just want more axle strength in general), an easy option is to sleeve and gusset the axle. I did it on my jeep front and rear axles which have taken quite a beating without major issues.

 

[Tazzieman]

The overwhelming vibe is that Americans want big wide lifted trucks for climbing bouldered tracks.
And a large payload.
Now my reading indicates there are a helluva lot of multibillionaires over there.
If there is such a need , why don't they reach into their pockets?
They can't all be old men , or nerds? They have egos, it would be a glory project.
Is it an English thing to take a risk , generally go for it (4 minute mile , Everest etc)?
And use Austrofrancogermanic expertise to get the project aims (never was a rockhopper) completed?

 

[CountyV8]

We are now going for the 5 minute mile.

 

[Tazzieman]

We are now going for the 5 minute mile.

You should try the beer mile.
Most guys should get through the first lap. Maybe.

 

[MidnightCamper]

I think I see a split here between those who want a vehicle to get them somewhere to do something (hunt, fish, camp out, ski, hike) and those who doing something in/with the vehicle is the main goal (rock climbing, mudding, etc— off roading as "track day"). I am in the former category. Looking at the vehicle, I think the basic thrust of its design was getting somewhere to to something, especially if you listen to Ineos talk about designing for commercial users: If you are a mining company, an oil company, a power company, an NGO doing humanitarian disaster relief, etc., you want a vehicle that will get your people out there to do something, not just drive around.

Agreed. What's tough is camping from Beantown to Canyon Country/Basin and Range/Cali coast with pets and supplies then having a vehicle that will do the trails. In all kinds of crap weather.

 

[MidnightCamper]

Or just getting down the driveway in the winter of 2015.

 

[Traffic]

The overwhelming vibe is that Americans want big wide lifted trucks for climbing bouldered tracks.
And a large payload.

I'd always swanted a Suzuki Jimney but alas. They're not available in the states.

It's interesting that folks seem to frame the US market as more or less an afterthought for Ineos. Why have they allocated about 25% of the first year reservations for US buyers?

 

[Tom D]

I was interested to see that the Carraro front axle has king pins just like a tractor front axle. Land rovers and land cruisers have the chrome ball type swivel instead. Any thoughts on the pro’s and cons of either system?

I also noticed that the kingpin bearings were sealed, no grease points on them. I know the land rover ones were bad for seals going an leaking oil. Whereas the Ineos will have a UJ inside which is exposed to the elements. I couldn’t see whether that had sealed bearings but I’ll bet it has. They certainly look strong, how the bearings will hold up will be interesting, any wear will lead to heel / toe wearing issues on the tyres..

 

[trobex]

The Gren will sell out in all regions because we all like toys... forget demographics/popularity/heritage etc. As to how it fits with individual users is all that matters, and are there enough of this type of person in every region. Not withstanding that the Gren will be very capable or of the box and for me it will tow all day long and not burn 20L/100km in doing so (I hope)