3rd party Videos Australia NB1 classification. LCT?

[Overlandplus]

In this Video, Justin clearly says the IG will be launched under NB1 classification, can anyone confirm if this will make the vehicle exempt from LCT here in Aus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YPtEk6b3O8&t=1163s

 

[Shopkeep]

I believe the NB1 classification has no direct impact on LCT, but as per the Ineos Grenadier website:

"Please be advised that INEOS is in the processes of submitting a luxury car tax (LCT) exemption application to the Australia Tax Office (ATO).  Accordingly, the Grenadier Drive Away Prices include LCT and is subject to change without notice"

However the NB1 may help with the exemption classification process.

 

[grenadierboy]

I think that it broadly correct.

To determine if a vehicle is exempt from LCT you first need to determine the main purpose of a vehicle. To do so you apply a principal purpose test. This test considers the vehicle's appearance, presentation in marketing material, it's load carrying capacity and the number of passengers it can carry. 

Vehicles with a load carrying capacity of less than two tonnes can be designed to have a dual purpose of both carrying goods and passengers. Such vehicles include "utility" vehicles and Grenadier would seem to fall into this category.

The LCT regulations still need to get to a view on whether the dual purpose vehicle is a commercial vehicle or not for LCT exemption purposes.

The LCT regulations need to determine what is the PRIMARY purpose of a dual purpose vehicle.

To do so, the LCT regulations use an Australian Design Rules formula to determine whether the primary purpose of a dual purpose vehicle is the carrying goods or passengers - it can't be both.

A dual purpose vehicle is considered primarily for carrying goods if the number of seats x 68kg is less than 50% of the difference between GVM’ & tare mass.

APPLYING THE FORMULA TO THE GRENADIER MEANS IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED PRIMARILY A GOODS CARRYING VEHICLE AND THUS WOULD SEEM TO BE A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE AND EXEMPT FROM LCT.

However, will the ATO deny a LCT exemption even where the Grenadier satisfies the load carrying formula for being a commercial vehicle because of it's marketing and promotional material having a strong passenger focus??

 

[DenisM]

[QUOTE username=Shopkeep userid=8971976 postid=1332921153]I believe the NB1 classification has no direct impact on LCT, but as per the Ineos Grenadier website:

"Please be advised that INEOS is in the processes of submitting a luxury car tax (LCT) exemption application to the Australia Tax Office (ATO).  Accordingly, the Grenadier Drive Away Prices include LCT and is subject to change without notice"

However the NB1 may help with the exemption classification process.[/QUOTE]


Hi Shopkeep, can you advise where the LCT info came from?
The Australian e-digibrochure lists the prices with an explanatory note which says "Prices shown are retail price including GST, excluding further taxes / duties and delivery charge. The price is subject to change and may vary by market
Reading between the lines, Australian customers may be up for a price increase if the LCT is applied ...reports elsewhere indicate Ineos Australia doesn't expect a decision from the ATO (Australian Tax Office  for our international friends) until October this year, by which time we will need to have already  signed a contract specifying options/accessories etc...   "jolly" nuisance as I have specc'd the basic station wagon on the basis that the LCT will apply to the SW  but maybe not the 2-seat utility...maybe I'm sceptical about the ATO having spent quite a few yrs in Canberra a lifetime ago!!?

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=DenisM userid=8875352 postid=1332921923]


Hi Shopkeep, can you advise where the LCT info came from?
The Australian e-digibrochure lists the prices with an explanatory note which says "Prices shown are retail price including GST, excluding further taxes / duties and delivery charge. The price is subject to change and may vary by market
Reading between the lines, Australian customers may be up for a price increase if the LCT is applied ...reports elsewhere indicate Ineos Australia doesn't expect a decision from the ATO (Australian Tax Office  for our international friends) until October this year, by which time we will need to have already  signed a contract specifying options/accessories etc...   "jolly" nuisance as I have specc'd the basic station wagon on the basis that the LCT will apply to the SW  but maybe not the 2-seat utility...maybe I'm sceptical about the ATO having spent quite a few yrs in Canberra a lifetime ago!!?[/QUOTE]
When you checkout and go to finalise your payment it calculates the tax and inroads costs and give s you a final figure. 
Try it with your configuration and see.
You can always back out of it before you hit the final button

 

[DenisM]

Thank DaveB and Shopkeep!!
"mea culpa"?  should have read the "fine print" of the confirmed order spec with the build date and drive away price I received at the beginning of the month which mentions the LCT ...  so if the ATO "comes to the party"  as they say, I'll have a small nest egg to splurge on nice to have after market as distinct from "need to have" ?
Rule # whatever: don't try and calculate stuff/make $$ decisions late at night while sitting at one's computer....
one time I did that a courier truck arrived late in the afternoon with an AC/DC TIG/Stick welder /plasma cutter...just as my wife got home from work (I was retired?)...she looked at the box and said "where did that come from?" I said, "dashed if I know! the truck just arrived with a parcel for me..."! She rolled her eyes and wandered inside muttering about the dangers of late night e-bay and a credit card in easy reach?

 

[cheswick]

[QUOTE username=DenisM userid=8875352 postid=1332921923]


Hi Shopkeep, can you advise where the LCT info came from?
The Australian e-digibrochure lists the prices with an explanatory note which says "Prices shown are retail price including GST, excluding further taxes / duties and delivery charge. The price is subject to change and may vary by market
Reading between the lines, Australian customers may be up for a price increase if the LCT is applied ...reports elsewhere indicate Ineos Australia doesn't expect a decision from the ATO (Australian Tax Office  for our international friends) until October this year, by which time we will need to have already  signed a contract specifying options/accessories etc...   "jolly" nuisance as I have specc'd the basic station wagon on the basis that the LCT will apply to the SW  but maybe not the 2-seat utility...maybe I'm sceptical about the ATO having spent quite a few yrs in Canberra a lifetime ago!!

[/QUOTE]

in the Australian Grenadier FB group there has already been extensive discussion on LCT, in one of those discussions there was a guesstimate from Justin Hocevar that the answer could come back from the ATO in July. To be clear it is in the ATO’s hands but Justin was just giving his somewhat more informed perspective on likely timing. Hopefully the timing of the ATO ruling aligns with our contract dates.

I am curious what happens if you buy a vehicle with LCT applied that later gets a ruling as being LCT exempt, are you eligible for a refund or tax credit?

 

[Davman]

I think Justin hinted at the real reason why the Grenadier is NB1 - and that is to do with fleet sales.
The Grenadier was never going to get 5 Star ANCAP (Pedestrian safety, side impact etc etc) which is what many fleets/mines look for in a passenger vehicle. 
However with the Grenadier not classified as a passenger vehicle, but a commercial vehicle, then perhaps these fleets will overlook that it wont have 5 Star ANCAP - and buy it as they would buy other vehicles like their light trucks - based on other safety criteria.

NB1 doesn't have anything specific to do with LCT, however it does form part of an argument to the ATO as to why it should be LCT exempt.

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Che userid=8996982 postid=1332922167]

in the Australian Grenadier FB group there has already been extensive discussion on LCT, in one of those discussions there was a guesstimate from Justin Hocevar that the answer could come back from the ATO in July. To be clear it is in the ATO’s hands but Justin was just giving his somewhat more informed perspective on likely timing. Hopefully the timing of the ATO ruling aligns with our contract dates.

I am curious what happens if you buy a vehicle with LCT applied that later gets a ruling as being LCT exempt, are you eligible for a refund or tax credit?[/QUOTE]
Buying a car is no different to buying anything else. At the second that you buy it. Take legal possession of the car. You pay whatever tax is applicable at that second. So you sign the contract in July2022, it is Built in February 2023, it arrives in Australia May 2023, you shake the salesman’s hand, sign the documents and take delivery  in June 2023. That is when the tax is calculated on that days tax laws. If the tax changes in July 2023 they can’t come back and ask you for more money and you can’t go back to them and ask for a refund. It would be like going back to the petrol station and telling them you filled up yesterday and today it is $0.50 a litre cheaper could you have a refund please

 

[cheswick]

[QUOTE username=DaveB userid=8923052 postid=1332922240]
Buying a car is no different to buying anything else. At the second that you buy it. Take legal possession of the car. You pay whatever tax is applicable at that second. So you sign the contract in July2022, it is Built in February 2023, it arrives in Australia May 2023, you shake the salesman’s hand, sign the documents and take delivery  in June 2023. That is when the tax is calculated on that days tax laws. If the tax changes in July 2023 they can’t come back and ask you for more money and you can’t go back to them and ask for a refund. It would be like going back to the petrol station and telling them you filled up yesterday and today it is $0.50 a litre cheaper could you have a refund please[/QUOTE]

Rulings on tax can be retrospective, I.e the Landcruiser 70 series was made LCT exempt in 2012 but the ruling states “This Ruling applies to tax periods commencing on and after 1 January 2007.”

edit: also to be clear, I’m not proposing the refund would be from the retailer, clearly a tax refund would be a matter to deal with the ATO on.

 

[DaveB]

Yes nothing would change on what you paid for the vehicle or the amount you financed or owed.  

 

[Sandman]

Did anyone else get this email form IG?


"As you may be aware, INEOS Automotive have been working with the Australian Tax Office (ATO) on a Private Ruling exempting the Grenadier from Luxury Car Tax (LCT). The ATO has recognised that due to the Grenadier’s design, engineering and capability, it is not considered a Luxury Car for tax purposes and therefore all Wagon models, options and accessories are exempt from LCT. The final invoice for your Grenadier will reflect this decision, so you will notice the total price will be lower due to the exclusion of LCT. In the meantime, if you have any questions or would like to modify your order on the back of this news, please contact our customer service team."

 

[OGrid]

[QUOTE username=Sandman userid=8987369 postid=1333064133]Did anyone else get this email form IG?


"As you may be aware, INEOS Automotive have been working with the Australian Tax Office (ATO) on a Private Ruling exempting the Grenadier from Luxury Car Tax (LCT). The ATO has recognised that due to the Grenadier’s design, engineering and capability, it is not considered a Luxury Car for tax purposes and therefore all Wagon models, options and accessories are exempt from LCT. The final invoice for your Grenadier will reflect this decision, so you will notice the total price will be lower due to the exclusion of LCT. In the meantime, if you have any questions or would like to modify your order on the back of this news, please contact our customer service team."[/QUOTE]

Yep…just landed in my Inbox!  

Woo hoo!! Happy days

 

[Sam]

I got this email just now too.

Result!

 

[Sandman]

Yes this is good news!!

 

[Davman]

Awesome news - I got it too.

Les should be happy.
Now to get him some remote service outlets, and he will be happy as a Pig(face) in mud.
Sorry had to get the bush tucker reference in there.

 

[HT]

Time to Start adding on all the toys you previously couldn’t afford. 

 

[DaveB]

That saves a lot of money. 

 

[Greg]

it has been removed from configurator too

 

[Bushguide]

Yes I have it also but could not get the configurator to do its job. Try again later. This makes a huge difference to the whole purchase. Does anyone have the On Road costs for this vehicle in QLD?
Les Hiddins AMBush Tucker Man