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A bit more on the cancellation/delay

flynnsk

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"Lukewarm" is to say the least. With 100% tariffs and now a VP candidate who said EV/Alternative Fuel "are a scam", seems like is DEAD in the water.
 

Shopkeep

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"Lukewarm" is to say the least. With 100% tariffs and now a VP candidate who said EV/Alternative Fuel "are a scam", seems like is DEAD in the water.
Not trying to talk politics and proffering no opinion about candidates but given the new America PAC will be largely funded by someone who made billions from basically inventing the mainstream EV industry will this change?
 
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My feeling is that marketing got ahead of the tech and further fueled by incentives. Once things settle down and find there groove we should see EV’s become a strong alternative.
 

MileHigh

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Not trying to talk politics and proffering no opinion about candidates but given the new America PAC will be largely funded by someone who made billions from basically inventing the mainstream EV industry will this change?
But not HIS EVs….

I always thought the market cross section of EVs and the IG brand were a bit off. I get the potential advantages of an electric in an EOTWAWKI situation, outside of a EMP scenario, but EV and back to basics are largely exclusionary. And the current glut of EV trucks/SUVs give you like 7th mover advantage.

Chop off the back doors and add a gas engine and VIOLA, a D90ish competitor…
 

AngusMacG

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The shine has come off EV's. They are good for commuting but not road trips.

I had to rent a car and Hertz forced me into a Tesla. It had 93% charge (the max it could take according to Hertz). My drive home was ~107 miles and after traveling about 75 mph with a couple of accelerations to test out the electric motors I ended up at around 20% left on the battery. I then drove another 35 miles or so and ended up with about 8% left. It took me 45 minutes to charge it back to 93%. I then had another 62 miles to go to return it. I had to plug in again to get it close to 93% which took about 20 minutes. The normal ~1.75 hour drive took 2.75 hours...In addition Hertz hit me with the charging costs (wish I could remember what they were).

This just showed me that EV's are nowhere near where they need to be to fit into the average US drivers needs. Charging takes way too long compared to gas (9x longer to charge a Tesla on a supercharger than to fill up at a normal gas pump). The range is horrible. Questions on how long the batteries will last (the Tesla I rented was maybe 2-3 years old and already lost 7% battery). Infrastructure is lacking to not only supply the power but also to find charging stations that are convenient.
 

parb

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i rented a hybrid in san diego. Mild hybrid, not the plug in version but the kind that helps with acceleration.
Got 35mpg and drove the thing the whole way from san diego to SF on one full tank (i think i had an 18gallon tank). It has made me rethink hybrids.
I drove 75mph most of the way. I think it was a mercedes c-class vehicle (not very comfortable if i'm honest).
 

BigJock2024

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My feeling is that marketing got ahead of the tech and further fueled by incentives. Once things settle down and find there groove we should see EV’s become a strong alternative.
100% correct - governments just do the easy part, and that is basically taxing people heavily in traditional cars (SUV taxes, fuel taxes, 1st year road fund licence, ULEZ changes) and throwing taxpayers money to subsidise EVs through corporate schemes and tax breaks. The difficult part, which is the massive infratructure to ensure everyone can charge their vehicles nationwide, the ramping costs of battery and electronics production, and maybe helping people dependent on petrol and diesel... that bit they don't do. So we now have thousands of EVs waiting for buyers that can't currently use them because of the limitations. Short term easy answers don't fix long term complex problems. But polticians have short term thinking and simple minds. :)
EVs will undoubtedly have their place longer term, but the transition needs to happen at the pace people can take and afford. Hybrids have been completely overlooked as a highly valuable transition vehicle.
 

Jeffrey

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The shine has come off EV's. They are good for commuting but not road trips.

I had to rent a car and Hertz forced me into a Tesla. It had 93% charge (the max it could take according to Hertz). My drive home was ~107 miles and after traveling about 75 mph with a couple of accelerations to test out the electric motors I ended up at around 20% left on the battery. I then drove another 35 miles or so and ended up with about 8% left. It took me 45 minutes to charge it back to 93%. I then had another 62 miles to go to return it. I had to plug in again to get it close to 93% which took about 20 minutes. The normal ~1.75 hour drive took 2.75 hours...In addition Hertz hit me with the charging costs (wish I could remember what they were).

This just showed me that EV's are nowhere near where they need to be to fit into the average US drivers needs. Charging takes way too long compared to gas (9x longer to charge a Tesla on a supercharger than to fill up at a normal gas pump). The range is horrible. Questions on how long the batteries will last (the Tesla I rented was maybe 2-3 years old and already lost 7% battery). Infrastructure is lacking to not only supply the power but also to find charging stations that are convenient.
Something is wrong with your numbers. Maybe you had a vehicle with an issue. My Tesla charged to 290 miles and I drove every one of them. Just like ALL the others out there except for the Model S which goes well over 300 miles. And, road trips are very nice in an EV. There are so many charging stations and hundreds more being installed every month. EV's are certainly where they need to be to fit into the average US drivers needs. There are hundreds or more in my town all doing very well. I see them in remote areas like Death Valley and on all interstate hiways. Cancel your membership in the haters club and get with what's real.
 

Jeffrey

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100% correct - governments just do the easy part, and that is basically taxing people heavily in traditional cars (SUV taxes, fuel taxes, 1st year road fund licence, ULEZ changes) and throwing taxpayers money to subsidise EVs through corporate schemes and tax breaks. The difficult part, which is the massive infratructure to ensure everyone can charge their vehicles nationwide, the ramping costs of battery and electronics production, and maybe helping people dependent on petrol and diesel... that bit they don't do. So we now have thousands of EVs waiting for buyers that can't currently use them because of the limitations. Short term easy answers don't fix long term complex problems. But polticians have short term thinking and simple minds. :)
EVs will undoubtedly have their place longer term, but the transition needs to happen at the pace people can take and afford. Hybrids have been completely overlooked as a highly valuable transition vehicle.
How can you not know how long Toyota has been producing Prius's (as an example) and how many are out there in use everyday? What limitations are you talking about? I don't know of, or have ever even heard of, any EV owners that can't use them. This is just more made up bullshit. You need to get your facts from another channel.
 
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@Jeffrey don't disagree with your point that the EV is a proven means of transportation. I also think that "range anxiety" is less that it was when the Prius was first released in part from the extended range but also people are realizing they can maintain a routine that was similar to owning an ICE. To @BigJock2024 point, I do believe that SCE (local utility) has a problem if everybody in SoCal owned "1" EV and we all decided to charge them between 5PM and 5AM. Even if we assume the grid could handle the load I'm not certain at what cost ($/kwh). For me, hybrids are a tough sell as you are supporting an engine and a motor...but they are getting better. I'm excited to see what comes next.
 

AngusMacG

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Something is wrong with your numbers. Maybe you had a vehicle with an issue. My Tesla charged to 290 miles and I drove every one of them. Just like ALL the others out there except for the Model S which goes well over 300 miles. And, road trips are very nice in an EV. There are so many charging stations and hundreds more being installed every month. EV's are certainly where they need to be to fit into the average US drivers needs. There are hundreds or more in my town all doing very well. I see them in remote areas like Death Valley and on all interstate hiways. Cancel your membership in the haters club and get with what's real.
My numbers are my numbers. Never drove an EV just hybrids. The 45 minute wait on the charge is flat out ludicrous especially when it takes about 5 minutes to fill up w/gas. There are enough YouTubers who have documented their “misadventures” on a roadtrip in an EV.

The Infrastructure isn’t where it should be (reliable chargers, amount of chargers, rapid charging, etc). CA is leading the way but the engineering just isnt there.
 

rovie

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My numbers are my numbers. Never drove an EV just hybrids. The 45 minute wait on the charge is flat out ludicrous especially when it takes about 5 minutes to fill up w/gas. There are enough YouTubers who have documented their “misadventures” on a roadtrip in an EV.

The Infrastructure isn’t where it should be (reliable chargers, amount of chargers, rapid charging, etc). CA is leading the way but the engineering just isnt there.
My business car is a BMW iX . I drove 395 km in it and could theoretically have driven another 20 km. I then charged it at a power station. In 21 minutes to 80%. I have no complaints about the charging infrastructure so far. I was never a friend of EVs in the past. But now I've even signed up for a test drive with the new electric G. Off-road with a 3.5 tonne trailer, of course. The G-Turn alone will thrill my cattle. 😂
Please don't take it all the way, I don't know what you need it for. Perhaps the majority of G drivers in the city, from whom I clearly distance myself. ;)
 

Jeffrey

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My numbers are my numbers. Never drove an EV just hybrids. The 45 minute wait on the charge is flat out ludicrous especially when it takes about 5 minutes to fill up w/gas. There are enough YouTubers who have documented their “misadventures” on a roadtrip in an EV.

The Infrastructure isn’t where it should be (reliable chargers, amount of chargers, rapid charging, etc). CA is leading the way but the engineering just isnt there.
OK, you have your mind made up. I won't confuse you with the facts.
 

AngusMacG

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When the solar eclipse was over people all over northern New England waited hours to charge their vehicles with traffic backing up everywhere…You can just Google it and see the news stories. It was a complete and utter sh*tshow. Vermont was one of the worst and is much more progressive with EVs than neighboring states.
 

ecohen2

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And when the pipeline went down on the east coast people were filling plastic bags with gasoline, waiting in lines for hours, believing you could add water to diesel and burn it..... No technology is immune to weaknesses in the infrastructure or capacity issues or natural disasters.. Just be smart about making sure you charge up, fill up or do whatever when you are dealing with large events or anything else that might leave you in a bad place..
 

BigJock2024

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How can you not know how long Toyota has been producing Prius's (as an example) and how many are out there in use everyday? What limitations are you talking about? I don't know of, or have ever even heard of, any EV owners that can't use them. This is just more made up bullshit. You need to get your facts from another channel.
Precisely my point. Hybrids are much more common as they meet the needs of drivers that EVs don't. Also consider the commercial sector - our local taxi firm will not move to EVs because there is no vehicle available that can do an 8-12hr shift with all the starting and stopping that's involved and stay charged. The decrease in fuel consumption delivered by the hybrid Prius has already massively reduced their cost base without compromising utilisation factors or disrupting driver shift patterns. That will remain the case for some time yet.
 

pmatusov

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OK, you have your mind made up. I won't confuse you with the facts.
I just came back from a three-day weekend trip from San Diego to Utah. On the way back, stopped at a gas station near Yermo on I-15.
There were six pumps, and about 20 charger stations. All pumps and maybe five chargers were busy.
Maybe, just maybe, it had to do with the fact that waiting for your battery to be charged in a 95F heat next to the gas station/convenience store without running water in the middle of Mojave desert is far more unpleasant than filling up a gas tank.

EVs are a proven means of transportation, meaning they can move under their power and move some payload. Charging the batteries quickly isn't.
In the energy terms, a typical 8-gpm gas pump equates ~293 kW*h in each minute, or 17.6MW.
Even at the miserable efficiency of an ICE, it is still a giant number.
Likewise, a 5-gallon jerry can holds the thermal equivalent of 183 kW*h.
 
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