74Weld Portal Axles for the Grenadier

[landmannnn]

74Weld provides extreme duty portals to the rock crawling world.

That makes sense now you say it. He said Land rover products were no good off road, that's not really true unless your world is the extreme stuff.

 

[Dokatd]

My guesstimate(for posterity) of the OEM set up is somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k

I can't argue with that, but I will say it should be in the 12-15k range to make any sense. But that being said, portals are a bit over the top on a Grenadier. Not that I wouldn't take some if I could. But I'm speaking from a place a privilege considering the number of portal axle trucks I already own.

 

[anand]

I can't argue with that, but I will say it should be in the 12-15k range to make any sense. But that being said, portals are a bit over the top on a Grenadier. Not that I wouldn't take some if I could. But I'm speaking from a place a privilege considering the number of portal axle trucks I already own.

LeTech's kit for the G-class is $48k+ and that market is arguably much larger; if it comes with an OEM badge on it, it will almost certainly be more (given it's made by the same people)

 

[WanderingSniper]

74Weld provides extreme duty portals to the rock crawling world. They make a really good setup for Toyota's, Jeeps etc. I think however he is a bit one track though on this. He is thinking through how his existing products can be reworked to fit the Grenadier and it seems he is currently not optimistic that it will be easy or cost effective. And he is right.

Just wait until real pricing comes out for "kits". The factory option if done correctly could be the most affordable. This assumes some production qty's. I would have paid a fair bit more for portals if they were offered by the factory. But not anywhere near what any forth coming kits will cost.

Bottom line, the guys at 74Weld are being honest and clear.

I hear you and I come from that world too. I sold a great rock crawler to move to a Grenadier and do some different off road trips than I had been doing for the last decade. However his video, while honest, was also lacking any enthusiasm for this project. He seemed like my 11 year old when I tell him to do his homework. He can do it very well, and is certainly smart enough, but there are a dozen things he would rather do than that job. Building projects like this is 74Welds life and career, I don't believe he wants it to include our vehicles.

 

[Max]

I hear you and I come from that world too. I sold a great rock crawler to move to a Grenadier and do some different off road trips than I had been doing for the last decade. However his video, while honest, was also lacking any enthusiasm for this project. He seemed like my 11 year old when I tell him to do his homework. He can do it very well, and is certainly smart enough, but there are a dozen things he would rather do than that job. Building projects like this is 74Welds life and career, I don't believe he wants it to include our vehicles.

I couldn't put my finger on it, I thought negative but no you're right just lacking any enthusiasm and when he said the vehicle arrived with 12 miles on the clock and now has 13, what and why was that said?
IMO, he knows plenty about the process but zero when it comes to driving and understanding a Grenadier, nor does he want to.

 

[Dokatd]

So.... who here will drop 40-50k min for portals? The answer to that question may explain his lack of enthusiasm.

Im open to being surprised!

 

[C-Mack]

Happy to have vendors or the OEM support portals as there will be takers of one variety or another. Whether it’s to impress their peers at the latest shiny tire 4x4 parking lot meetup or those who want to climb the rocky face of a mountain with their Grenadier have at it and enjoy all are welcome.

Doesn’t mean we all have to pine for them just because they exist and for the vast majority of us a nearly stock or intelligently modified Grenny does the job just fine.

 

[Lars]

I couldn't put my finger on it, I thought negative but no you're right just lacking any enthusiasm and when he said the vehicle arrived with 12 miles on the clock and now has 13, what and why was that said?
IMO, he knows plenty about the process but zero when it comes to driving and understanding a Grenadier, nor does he want to.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the discussions on social media quickly goes from the subject at hand to side issues. So you don’t like Quinn at 74Weld’s presentation? He’s apparently not a Grenadier enthusiast like you? Guess what, he isn’t. He runs a business and is quite good at what he does. He’s just discussing the reality of developing portals for our vehicle, as he’s been asked to by Grenadier enthusiasts.

Portal axles are definitely not something everyone wants, needs, or understand. It’s just great to hear what the aftermarket could do for the Grenadier. I just hope he can find the 10 people he needs to proceed.

 

[Lars]

I can't argue with that, but I will say it should be in the 12-15k range to make any sense. But that being said, portals are a bit over the top on a Grenadier. Not that I wouldn't take some if I could. But I'm speaking from a place a privilege considering the number of portal axle trucks I already own.

Completely unrealistic expectations. A Jeep crate axle can easily be $10k and we are talking replacing both front and rear axles with a much improved plug-and-play solution. But yes, it will cost too much for us mortals.

 

[Max]

So you don’t like Quinn at 74Weld’s presentation?

No, I didn't say that.

He’s apparently not a Grenadier enthusiast like you?

No, I didn't say that.

I said, IMO he knows plenty about the process[portals]
IMO He lacked enthusiasm for the project, I was just replying to WanderingSniper...pretty much what happens on forums...sorry if I am out of place an affended you and your thread

 

[Dokatd]

Completely unrealistic expectations. A Jeep crate axle can easily be $10k and we are talking replacing both front and rear axles with a much improved plug-and-play solution. But yes, it will cost too much for us mortals.

I was speaking to what a factory supplied set "should" cost to be a viable option in my opinion. I used to build custom axles for a living so I am well aware of the prices being charged.

74Weld would have to supply all new parts and custom fit them. Ineos has the ability to create production parts and would be reducing the cost of the normal axles from the original price. So assuming all those savings, it's not out of hand to suggest a factory option couldn't be sub $20k.

But I certainly don't expect us to be that lucky.

 

[255/85]

My takeaway from the 74Weld video was that the rear axle needs to be a semi-float design with a flanged end. I don't think we'll see that on a full sized Grenadier. The GVM would likely be reduced too much to fit the bill.

I'd like to see the LeTec kit installed to see how their system is engineered.

 

[Dokatd]

My takeaway from the 74Weld video was that the rear axle needs to be a semi-float design with a flanged end. I don't think we'll see that on a full sized Grenadier. The GVM would likely be reduced too much to fit the bill.

I'd like to see the LeTec kit installed to see how their system is engineered.

Portals are full float if that makes any sense.

A Rover rear axle for instance is a full float with a flange. The stub axle bolts to the flange.

I'm assuming the Grenadier has welded on stubs or spindles based on what was described in the video. I haven't looked at them closely myself though.

 

[255/85]

Portals are full float if that makes any sense.

A Rover rear axle for instance is a full float with a flange. The stub axle bolts to the flange.

I'm assuming the Grenadier has welded on stubs or spindles based on what was described in the video. I haven't looked at them closely myself though.

Yes, i get that the portal box has bearing supported gears that carry the weight instead of the axle shafts but the Grenadier is a very heavy vehicle. Land Rovers are (in some forms) half the weight of a stock Grenadier. Don't get me wrong here - I'd love removable/replaceable spindles fore and aft on these trucks for all kinds of reasons - but i's such an archaic way of building a vehicle these days that it would be hard to get such a feature past an engineering team. Almost everything has gone to pressed-in unit bearings and extremely tight tolerances. I think 74Weld uses repurposed Ford F350 unit bearings for their drive hubs already. I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here.

In the older Land Cruiser world there are kits available to convert semi-float into full-float rear axles. I'm sure there's a simper way to do the rear on a Grenadier without replacing the entire housing. But that still leaves the front axle. While not very knowledgeable about cut-n-turn front ends, I have reservations about adding much positive caster to a Grenadier front axle. The king pin inclination is not plumb. There's a real possibility of creating some wonky steering reactions if taken too far. (The guy in the 74Weld vid mentions +10º.) This isn't a concern for dedicated rock crawling or other low speed scenarios but care would need to be exercised in the "overlanding" world where 100kph+ speeds and evasive maneuvers on sketchy roads can be common. I must admit to liking a bit of unsprung weight down low to counterbalance roof loads and Grenadiers are top heavy compared to a Wrangler or Bronco and maybe even a LC76/78.

 

[Zimm]

I think if I wanted a portal axle gren, for this much cash, I'd buy a unit without lockers, and swap in an entire dana based assembly. I'd rather deal with weldaments and have a known "common" assembly of portal parts that won't disappear from the market in 2 years.

 

[NQ94]

I think if I wanted a portal axle gren, for this much cash, I'd buy a unit without lockers, and swap in an entire dana based assembly. I'd rather deal with weldaments and have a known "common" assembly of portal parts that won't disappear from the market in 2 years.

I agree, Dana portals rear and the front axle with the double cardan joint and king pins would sell in better numbers. At a similar track and size to Ineos there would be interest from Toyota and Nissan owners world wide. Australia has available a factory Dana 60 track corrected axle for gvm increaed LC79s in Australia. Dana axles are easier to deal with for regearing and other lockers and diff centers and parts compared to Carraro.

 

[Zimm]

I agree, Dana portals rear and the front axle with the double cardan joint and king pins would sell in better numbers. At a similar track and size to Ineos there would be interest from Toyota and Nissan owners world wide. Australia has available a factory Dana 60 track corrected axle for gvm increaed LC79s in Australia. Dana axles are easier to deal with for regearing and other lockers and diff centers and parts compared to Carraro.

These axles are fucking stupid. Granted, I’ve owned fords, gms, Toyotas, and mercs, and none of the axles has failed me, (well, rebuilding the 96 Gwagon axles is something in hindsight I’ll pay for next time, and Toyos are easy) and I don’t suspect these will either, but, for an off grid overland truck intended to be fixed anywhere, these axles are fucking stupid. The idea of off the shelf suppliers, is off the shelf and easy, not off the shelf from some far corner of the supply world.

But, I think the key to a portal Gren, is to plan it before you buy it, and gut it. It would be fun to see some people do it, so I can ohhh and ahhh and give an attaboy with a shot. Good thing for me 2” lift and 35’s will more than get me around the world where I feel like going.

 

[255/85]

Good thing for me 2” lift and 35’s will more than get me around the world where I feel like going.

I must admit to falling into the same category. Portals are not the easy way to get a couple of extra inches under the diffs despite the cool factor.