Europe 30% of orders messed up in Switzerland - can INEOS Automotive really provide vehicles as requested?

[DaveB]

I just - again - checked my order summary online. all subsequent changes are available. However, after changing the configuration, I sent it to my dealer every time, who forwarded it

I went into my dealer and sat with him and made changes on his system live.
He printed it out and when I checked the configurator all the changes were there.
Except the prices were at the new price.
They assure me I will get charged the old price and his printout confirms that.

 

[tartan shepherd]

Based on OP's experience, quick question. Would you pay up front prior to seeing and checking the vehicle is to the spec you ordered and in acceptable condition?

 

[Hannes01]

good question, if the order summary and the configuration should match/should the car be delivered as i should pay for it!
If essential parts were missing and I was asked to pay less, I wouldn't want the car like that!

 

[rovie]

Based on OP's experience, quick question. Would you pay up front prior to seeing and checking the vehicle is to the spec you ordered and in acceptable condition?

The question does not arise. The final payment must have been made before delivery. Otherwise, the vehicle will not be released.

 

[rovie]

Fantastic news for all those folk that got to see their cars the other week at Hedin in Switzerland.

Needless to say, logistics seemed to have got the better of INEOS and despite confirming multiple times the correct config directly with INEOS (as did Hedin) the wrong config was delivered (and not just a bit wrong). Goes without saying we are all so disappointed and any ideas of using the vehicle are now out the window.

Hedin seemed to have their hands tied by their lack of available cars so all that's been possible is a later build slot. Now it would appear that production is focused elsewhere other than Switzerland and around 15 folk in my position just have to put up with being stuck back into the queue. As always no communication and the strong impression that INEOS do not want any kind of ownership of this screwup.

Also, no promise in getting our builds expedited so my guess is as good as any ones as to when desired builds will be actually delivered. Makes me worried about a number of things mostly the kind of post-sales support that will be offered.

Furthermore, INEOS seemed to have passed to the buck to Hedin on this one despite that fact I had direct communication with both Hedin and INEOS on this issue and they have failed to get the right configuration place on to my order. They had months to do this though.

Bitterly, disappointed with Spring / Summer plans now down the drain and needing to now re-plan everything plus hire a 4x4.

What really bug's me is INEOS simply just holding their hands up and expecting Hedin to rectify the problem. So much for getting on the reservation list early - I was apparently in the top 10 globally. Loyalty here however seems nothing.

Looks a great vehicle but it takes more than a good vehicle to build a good car brand and this experience has seriously got me thinking if I wanted to be involved with INEOS for the long term or just call it a day.

A bad experience with nothing at all being done my INEOS automotive to get things sorted for all the screw ups. Hedin as I say doing their best but with limited resources this amount to platitudes.

I don't understand. A few weeks ago, it was posted here in the forum that you Swiss were at HEDIN on one day, saw your vehicles and even unlocked them with your keys.
You must have noticed that the configurations don't fit! Why is this topic only coming up now? Is your vehicle perhaps an exception? Or were you all so impressed that you didn't notice the details like leather, roof windows and windscreen trim?

 

[Eric]

The question does not arise. The final payment must have been made before delivery. Otherwise, the vehicle will not be released.

Now that's a "catch 22". I would like the car to actually be here and in the hands of my dealer (agent) before I released the money.

 

[rovie]

Now that's a "catch 22". I would like the car to actually be here and in the hands of my dealer (agent) before I released the money.

That is not contradictory. You just don't get the vehicle handed over.

 

[Earthwatcher]

We live in difficult times for manufacturing, and it's widespread, way beyond the automobile industry. I've had delays on three projects recently due to parts shortages. A lot of stuff comes from China and China is still struggling with Covid; then there's the war in Ukraine, plus, for the Brits among us, our homemade clusterfuck called Brexit, though I doubt that's to blame for the Grenadier delays. From conversations with agents, missing parts is the main problem and this can be a big deal, as in the alarm system where the original supply arrangement with Thatcham has fallen apart. It's very likely that Thatcham couldn't fulfil its orders because it too was struggling for components. So there's a knock-on effect running through the supply chain and it's not unique to INEOS. What is unique is that the INEOS Grenadier launch is caught up in this perfect storm with hundreds of cars already produced, either awaiting parts or various checks. I'm assuming this is why the agent told me I couldn't make late changes to my car. It's either in, or more likely through production - he couldn't say exactly where it was in the chain - and it, like everyone else's, will begin to trickle through to the agents in the next few weeks. I'm guessing this is why there's been a hold on contract-signing. The last thing INEOS wants is customers waving contracts or launching law suits for breach of contract. I'm guessing the next baby step will be the supply of demo models so that we can assuage our on-road concerns. This seems to be the belief of my agent at any rate. Presumably some of those press demo models have gone out to agents now.

Do we take it from the above that some cars have actually been supplied to customers in Switzerland? Are there real cars owned by real customers driving around the Swiss Alps?

 

[Trialmaster]

Based on OP's experience, quick question. Would you pay up front prior to seeing and checking the vehicle is to the spec you ordered and in acceptable condition?

NO, I would not pay - until the vehicle is viewed. I've bought loads of cars over the years and not paid the invoice until seen. You would be mad to!

 

[Hannes01]

For me it will be the first time to do this

 

[nickelnoff]

I don't understand. A few weeks ago, it was posted here in the forum that you Swiss were at HEDIN on one day, saw your vehicles and even unlocked them with your keys.
You must have noticed that the configurations don't fit! Why is this topic only coming up now? Is your vehicle perhaps an exception? Or were you all so impressed that you didn't notice the details like leather, roof windows and windscreen trim?

No, the case was clear @rovie at that time and even for several days before. What I was expecting however was a little more to be done after the event, perhaps in the proceeding two weeks to get things straightened out.

 

[rovie]

NO, I would not pay - until the vehicle is viewed. I've bought loads of cars over the years and not paid the invoice until seen. You would be mad to!

Everyone can make the decision for themselves. The longer I check and question before I take the next step, the longer it will take until I have the vehicle. Everyone has to assess the risk for themselves.

 

[rovie]

No, the case was clear @rovie at that time and even for several days before. What I was expecting however was a little more to be done after the event, perhaps in the proceeding two weeks to get things straightened out.

OK, then I understand!

 

[nickelnoff]

We live in difficult times for manufacturing, and it's widespread, way beyond the automobile industry. I've had delays on three projects recently due to parts shortages. A lot of stuff comes from China and China is still struggling with Covid; then there's the war in Ukraine, plus, for the Brits among us, our homemade clusterfuck called Brexit, though I doubt that's to blame for the Grenadier delays. From conversations with agents, missing parts is the main problem and this can be a big deal, as in the alarm system where the original supply arrangement with Thatcham has fallen apart. It's very likely that Thatcham couldn't fulfil its orders because it too was struggling for components. So there's a knock-on effect running through the supply chain and it's not unique to INEOS. What is unique is that the INEOS Grenadier launch is caught up in this perfect storm with hundreds of cars already produced, either awaiting parts or various checks. I'm assuming this is why the agent told me I couldn't make late changes to my car. It's either in, or more likely through production - he couldn't say exactly where it was in the chain - and it, like everyone else's, will begin to trickle through to the agents in the next few weeks. I'm guessing this is why there's been a hold on contract-signing. The last thing INEOS wants is customers waving contracts or launching law suits for breach of contract. I'm guessing the next baby step will be the supply of demo models so that we can assuage our on-road concerns. This seems to be the belief of my agent at any rate. Presumably some of those press demo models have gone out to agents now.

Do we take it from the above that some cars have actually been supplied to customers in Switzerland? Are there real cars owned by real customers driving around the Swiss Alps?

@Earthwatcher completely agree with you on the „difficult times“ we live piece however as customers need to know what is going on and work with vendors be it automobile or otherwise that are turn up and are there for us.
This means both communicating effectively as well as making sure that customer comes first ALWAYS.
Personally, I work in an industry that has been relatively struggling and the single most important thing is to listen to the customer whilst sticking to the mission in helping the customer and putting yourself second.

 

[nickelnoff]

I went into my dealer and sat with him and made changes on his system live.
He printed it out and when I checked the configurator all the changes were there.
Except the prices were at the new price.
They assure me I will get charged the old price and his printout confirms that.

Exactly what I did @DaveB

 

[Logsplitter]

We live in difficult times for manufacturing, and it's widespread, way beyond the automobile industry. I've had delays on three projects recently due to parts shortages. A lot of stuff comes from China and China is still struggling with Covid; then there's the war in Ukraine, plus, for the Brits among us, our homemade clusterfuck called Brexit, though I doubt that's to blame for the Grenadier delays. From conversations with agents, missing parts is the main problem and this can be a big deal, as in the alarm system where the original supply arrangement with Thatcham has fallen apart. It's very likely that Thatcham couldn't fulfil its orders because it too was struggling for components. So there's a knock-on effect running through the supply chain and it's not unique to INEOS. What is unique is that the INEOS Grenadier launch is caught up in this perfect storm with hundreds of cars already produced, either awaiting parts or various checks. I'm assuming this is why the agent told me I couldn't make late changes to my car. It's either in, or more likely through production - he couldn't say exactly where it was in the chain - and it, like everyone else's, will begin to trickle through to the agents in the next few weeks. I'm guessing this is why there's been a hold on contract-signing. The last thing INEOS wants is customers waving contracts or launching law suits for breach of contract. I'm guessing the next baby step will be the supply of demo models so that we can assuage our on-road concerns. This seems to be the belief of my agent at any rate. Presumably some of those press demo models have gone out to agents now.

Do we take it from the above that some cars have actually been supplied to customers in Switzerland? Are there real cars owned by real customers driving around the Swiss Alps?

Are you sure Thatcham had a supply arrangement with Ineos. I thought Thatcham was just a research organisation for the insurance industry. I can’t find anything to suggest they supply alarms.

About - Thatcham Research

We are dedicated to understanding new vehicle technology and identifying the best strategies for its safe, secure, and sustainable adoption.

www.thatcham.org

 

[klarie]

Are you sure Thatcham had a supply arrangement with Ineos. I thought Thatcham was just a research organisation for the insurance industry. I can’t find anything to suggest they supply alarms.

About - Thatcham Research

We are dedicated to understanding new vehicle technology and identifying the best strategies for its safe, secure, and sustainable adoption.

www.thatcham.org

Indeed - only thing I could think of that an already certified device became short of supply. Assuming Ineos purchasing components like this already certified...

 

[Wayneos]

Ineos guy at the Sydney drive day today, told me they were sorting out quality control issues with all of those finished cars, one at a time, by hand. They’re desperate not to send cars that don’t measure up.

I got pulled away by my other half before I could ask for further details.

I’m happy they’re doing that, but they really do need to communicate it broadly to all customers ASAP!

 

[TD5-90]

I agree. I hope that they built my vehicle as originally ordered. Because I never made any changes. I assume they will be able to do that.

I really hope you're right. Same with me...

 

[marko]

Ineos guy at the Sydney drive day today, told me they were sorting out quality control issues with all of those finished cars, one at a time, by hand. They’re desperate not to send cars that don’t measure up.

I got pulled away by my other half before I could ask for further details.

I’m happy they’re doing that, but they really do need to communicate it broadly to all customers ASAP!

Well that's reassuring to hear. I'd much prefer I wasn't required to perform a QC function after delivery like I seem to have done with my last four Landrover vehicles. Agree they need a follow up comms this week. Doesn't need to be a slickly produced video taking up the CEO's valuable time either, a simple email update would be fine.