I realized the Grenadier is not for everyone, additionally early model teething issues are hurting it. But so many are comparing it to the wrong vehicles and taking it over a graded dirt road and say welp, pretty good. And that is about as far as it gets. Granted big time tests are limited by availability and no doubt TFL will at least get some moderate testing done, such as where the Defender had to be abandoned on Red Cone. You cannot compare it to a Defender! A Defender is a street car with bling. You are going nowhere with those horrific tires, IRS, electronics over reliance, layers of plastic and being insanely impossible to modify. Has ANYONE mentioned that? TFL asked the dealer to install a winch and it was so difficult the insurance TOTALED the Defender! They compare to other utes on limited, simple, sometimes articulated terrain and say, whelp, that Toyota or Land Rover traction control is much better, look at how good it is! The truth is traction is generally turned off in 4 low on most vehicles, because it becomes useless, overheats the brakes, stalls the vehicle and so on. Its 4x4 and lockers you use off road, NOT traction control. Then I see comparison after comparison to IFS vehicles! Guess what, the Bronco sheds parts like crazy, and the 4 Runner? Add some real tires and see what happens. New LC, yep IFS. So, lets take the Rubicon Trail as a bench mark, and imagine for a minute what would happen in a shoot out. Its difficult, but no where as difficult as other trails I do. ( I ran it in September last, and have done it over a dozen times in Monteros/ Pajeros)
New Land Cruiser -- Challenged by small tires and no front locker it would get horse whipped to death but probably survive with tons of body damage, its all plastic. Might actually break something, hard to say. Bigger tires would shred the front end most likely.
New Defender -- Would not make it past the gate keeper with out un-believable carnage, breakage and blown bling, bling tires, and the body damage would exceed the vehicles value. How is that traction control helping going over furniture sized boulders?
Four Runner -- With tiny tires, IFS and acres of plastic, and little clearance..... I mean we have one, and I would not try. We keep it on easy trails. It would take 40K to successfully build a 4 Runner for heavy duty action. Add big tires and the front end is history.
Bronco -- With its 35s and improved gearing it would make the Grenadier look like a waste of money and embarrass it at first. But with the entire front end melted down by Walker Hill I will idle past in the Grenadier as the Bronco struggles to find parts using the "cell phone tree". ( where the Ozzies flopped the Toyota) Thanks to a Jeep part in my Montero ( t-case) I got to enjoy that adventure last summer. Even more scarry would be in a more remote place and breaking down. And what will it take to solve the weak issues, think lots of 20K SAS coming. ( cheap compared to the 4 runner for reference) We would own a Bronco NOW if it had been properly engineered or had a solid axle.
Jeep -- With 33s the struggle is real, but the solid front axle means you can get through with some rock stacking. The perfect gearing also makes for an easier stock passage. Jeep does it every year with legions of rock stackers. A Dozen time bombs wait to stop you same as the Bronco, t case out put, tie rods, steering, axle tubes and so one. Pretty cheap and easy to build, with a solid engine, so you will do better next time on 37s and lots of beefing up of week components. What beats a Jeep? Depends if you need room or not really, a Jeep has no space. And who wants to drive what everyone else does?
Grenadier -- With its tiny tires the struggle is real, and like the Jeep rock stacking will be common. Gearing hinders progress and cooling, but may be ok with small tires. However, you will not break anything and have nothing more then some rock slider and bumper scratches to prove you did the trail. As soon as solutions are available you add lift, tires and gears as well as a sway bar disconnect to a drivetrain stronger then anything listed above. And the next time you make it look easy. That is taking a more holistic view of a vehicle.
Yes, I left pick ups off the list above. And I known what many of you are saying...I will never do anything that hard! Fair enough, but my points are;
1. If it makes it through the Rubicon stock, imagine it modified!
2. If you survive the Rubicon with out breaking, that 3 week trip in Remote Africa, or Baja, or Utah will certainly be trouble free!
3. Nothing beats lockers and Solid Axles, NOTHING, get over it. No amount of GOAT modes can replace, well, ummmm, pure traction and wheel travel.
4. How hard is it to modify. Yes, the Grenadier will need some real tough solutions for un-common axle and t-case parts, but it is a VERY short list. And modifying a simple bolt together rig on solid axles is way easier then IFS, or some uni-body nightmare. I imagine its such a devoted off roader solutions will come, and they will not revolve around starting from scratch.
Everyone tests on the Rubicon, but the test must include impartiality, an open mind and not burying your head in the sand if something breaks and saying, oh well, thats extreme 4 wheeling for you.
As for on road? Hard to say at this point, but the Defender is a street car and certainly beats the Grenadier. Bronco is noisy, but has the most comfort items. The Jeep is Noisy and handles worse. Four Runner is sluggish and Loud. In the end they will all get you to the trail head, its more personal choice. If style matters, then the Grenadier wins! What about towing....oh yes, that is right only the Grenadier can tow for all practical matters.
How about some finer details?
Best Looks? Thats Easy
Functionality? Grenadier by hundreds of miles, Bronco in a race for second place.
Here a short list of features the others or most do not all have, gear driven t/case, king pins, durable suspension, all coils, rain gutters, proper spare tire, proper tire mount on back, roof ladder, usable roof, able to stand on hood, metal bumpers, 4 recovery points, off road mode with no nannies or dinging, water fording mode, accessory switches, pre-wired connectors, side handles for roof access, low profile rack that is practical, order an awning from the factory, utility straps, integrated front winch, rock sliders, (lockers, winch and rock sliders are a starter package you MUST have), proper rear doors, safari windows, 4wd for highway use, Reccaro seats, Brembo Brakes, shaved front axle, limited low hanging items, high quality paint and corrosion resistance, axillary power system and back up battery for camp, I will think of more, I am missing a lot but thats a start.
Its the sum of the entire vehicle, not just a few features or something cool like a tooter horn that make a vehicle "Built on Purpose"
…..we all don’t have to agree or like the same things btw and everything doesn’t have to have a reason to be…..plus in my mind it’s the owners money and they can do what they want with their money/vehicles…….flame protective gear on……..
