Grenadier Quality Survey - 14/04/2023

Yesterday I was sent a "Grenadier Quality Survey", (14/06/2023 16:00), which I have completed and sent.

In retrospect, I should have taken much more time to consider what I needed to say, rather than letting it go as a cathartic rush. If you are sent a survey, I'd suggest writing out a list of things you want investigating/fixing, so you don't leave anything out, before completing it. They will also ask you what you like about the vehicle and the one thing you would change. As for the estimate of 10-15 minutes to complete, let's say, like the Grenadier, completion was rather delayed!

The nature of the on-line questionnaire means you cannot go back and change anything.

I am hoping they will re-contact me, as I would like to refine my irritations with a vehicle that is so nearly all I want. My major bugbear is the lack of the Workshop Manual, the dedicated parts list and that I probably know more about the vehicle than the dealer staff. (I can live with the flaky error messages, the slightly soapy plastics marking in use and the infotainment going dark-screen at awkward moments, as I expected a bit of that with being an early adopter of a new build vehicle, but I expect them to be sorted over time).

Thanks for the heads up and will keep a look out for that - should they send me one!!

However I did get clarification from INEOS today that all guarantee work will be progressed via the agents, so had a quick chat with Marc @ Jardine's and that's the case.

He has my weekly report of stuff going wrong, and hopes most of the software issues will be fixed with the update and the hardware issues when it goes in to have the missing kit fitted.

Will keep you updated !

That's an important information, thank you.

So I can only recommend to everybody to take some notes every day about what went wrong or is not properly mounted or loose or water ingress or whatever.

It would be nice to post this here to establish a collection, since this will help others to remember whether they had a similar issue or experience.


@Stu_Barnes I think this thread deserves a more prominent location.

Maybe someone could try to record/copy the actual questionnaire. That way one could compile one’s responses offline (with time to think and evaluate) and then transcribe the data into the online version.

Jeremy996 said:

Yesterday I was sent a "Grenadier Quality Survey", (14/06/2023 16:00), which I have completed and sent.

In retrospect, I should have taken much more time to consider what I needed to say, rather than letting it go as a cathartic rush. If you are sent a survey, I'd suggest writing out a list of things you want investigating/fixing, so you don't leave anything out, before completing it. They will also ask you what you like about the vehicle and the one thing you would change. As for the estimate of 10-15 minutes to complete, let's say, like the Grenadier, completion was rather delayed!

The nature of the on-line questionnaire means you cannot go back and change anything.

I am hoping they will re-contact me, as I would like to refine my irritations with a vehicle that is so nearly all I want. My major bugbear is the lack of the Workshop Manual, the dedicated parts list and that I probably know more about the vehicle than the dealer staff. (I can live with the flaky error messages, the slightly soapy plastics marking in use and the infotainment going dark-screen at awkward moments, as I expected a bit of that with being an early adopter of a new build vehicle, but I expect them to be sorted over time).

Click to expand...

I also filled out the online questionnaire. I found it very good and above all very detailed. You can fill in something about all issues.
Since I have been keeping a very detailed logbook since the beginning anyway, which includes all faults and remedial measures, I did have a roadmap and was able to present all issues in detail and critically.
I completely agree with @Jeremy996. You need to take your time. I actually spent about 3 hours on this.
INEOS will definitely do something with it and use the findings and clarify remedies with dealers. The issues will also be taken into account in the construction of future vehicles.

DDG said:

Maybe someone could try to record/copy the actual questionnaire. That way one could compile one’s responses offline (with time to think and evaluate) and then transcribe the data into the online version.

Click to expand...

Excellent idea.

I have a copy of the Quality Survey - but as it's a 12.8mb file it's too large to post here.

I don't seem to be able to add it as a resource - can anybody? Is there a larger upload limit there?

DCPU said:

I have a copy of the Quality Survey - but as it's a 12.8mb file it's too large to post here.

I don't seem to be able to add it as a resource - can anybody? Is there a larger upload limit there?

Click to expand...

Can you send it directly to @Stu_Barnes ?

What are the limits on various files or areas?

I don’t know. Stu said that anything too large could be mailed to him directly and he would be able to post. I‘m not sure how any of the technical stuff works - that’s all Stu.

I think there may be 1 page missing somewhere in the middle - I forgot to print it before moving on...

Bugger! just posted something regarding the questionnaire, but on a different thread. This one would have been far more suitable but didn't find it with a search. Anyway. Completed my questionnaire today. Not too much to complain about regarding my Grenadier but a few observations which I passed on.
Overall, very happy with my decision to purchase this vehicle. Provided Ineos come through the teething stages and start to perform, most of the things I want can be addressed via this forum.

Cheshire cat said:

Bugger! just posted something regarding the questionnaire, but on a different thread. This one would have been far more suitable but didn't find it with a search.

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Merge threads?

Cheshire cat said:

Bugger! just posted something regarding the questionnaire, but on a different thread. This one would have been far more suitable but didn't find it with a search. Anyway. Completed my questionnaire today. Not too much to complain about regarding my Grenadier but a few observations which I passed on.
Overall, very happy with my decision to purchase this vehicle. Provided Ineos come through the teething stages and start to perform, most of the things I want can be addressed via this forum.

Click to expand...

@Cheshire cat Just found it by "accident"... Post #11 https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/ineos-new-owner-questionnaire.12412586/#post-1333195412

DenisM said:

@Cheshire cat Just found it by "accident"... Post #11 https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/ineos-new-owner-questionnaire.12412586/#post-1333195412

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Thanks Denis
Couldn’t remember which thread I had posted in.

I had a follow-up telephone call from Ineos Automotive, (or at least a contact centre paid by them), to refine what I had said in my questionnaire. A charming lady called Laura, whose parents had Series 3s back in the day, the telephone number presenting as +44 800 085 3847. She took a note of quite a lot of comments verbatim, so it will be interesting if I get any feedback.

The key message from her was that they, (Ineos Automotive), wanted to get all of the issues fixed and the software update was expected to solve most of the error messages and the radio/screen issues. All other issues needed to be raised with the dealers/agents directly for fixes.
I gather that I am not the only one with water collecting between the door seals and making an unwelcome appearance when the door is opened!

I underlined my extreme irritation with the lack of workshop manual and parts lists and expressed my opinion that to make the access chargeable was a massive mistake. Publicity in the early stage of the project suggested that there would be a more "open source" approach, with easy access to technical data and a desire to make the vehicle more self-contained than others. Carrying a code reader is one thing, making the owner pay on a daily, weekly or monthly basis for technical data is hardly wilderness friendly - there is no cell coverage over chunks of Leicestershire, let alone the South American jungle!

If some component suppliers are unhappy about their IP being publicly available, redact it and make a note about the objection and how to test and replace the component as a "black box". I cannot see anyone wanting to change an engine or ZF transmission in the bush, but electronic modules, switches, bushes, and other bits you could transport as hand luggage must be available, testable and replaceable.

I am worried about components becoming obsolete - Early Teslas are having issues with dash displays which brick the vehicle, so if a component has to be made obsolete, we need access to a workaround. Now if the I/O and software is documented and made open source, once obsolete, Ineos or a third party could make an alternative and avoid bricking an otherwise viable vehicle.

Please Ineos, don't make us reverse-engineer the secondary systems; "Right to Repair" to make a proper impact needs to be dust to dust. Part of "Reduce, re-use, recycle" is buy fewer things of much better quality; I am hoping that my Grenadier will meet that by outlasting an alternative Defender / Discovery / Land Cruiser / Trooper /Pajero etc. three or four times. The carbon saving of keep an old vehicle running is at least 30% of total expended during its lifetime.

I have just been emailed a “Grenadier quality survey”

This is actually the second one I have had the first being a couple of months after I took delivery in June last year.

Clearly they didn’t like what I said the first time, so they have decided to make it a bit harder for me to reply this time I assume.

It’s in GERMAN !!

I suppose this is typical IA, full of good ideas but never quite pull it off 100%.

I just finished the survey. I've had a few issues so I was happy to list them. @Jeremy996 I did also stress the need for a manual and access to parts.

Just did my 1-year survey. Overall quality of vehicle is pretty solid, off road good, on road performance wise and handling is good, looks good. Then they asked me about comfort... and such things. I said my 2c about their design team, QA team, management team, peer review (if any), ergonomics engineering (if any), did they actually listend to ANYTHING from the PT02/03 testing team in the RHD vehicle etc etc!!! I also queried maintenance manuals & servicing costs... especially servicing costs.

A friend of mine with a U.K. registered Grenadier was sent the survey yesterday in German !
Strangely I’ve never been sent a survey