The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Price negotiations

chtucker

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Oct 26, 2023
Messages
89
Reaction score
80
Location
Kirkland
There is a lot Grenadiers sitting at Elliot Bay Motors- Has anyone negotiated off of sticker?
 

snowball

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Jun 19, 2023
Messages
52
Reaction score
91
Location
Northern BC, Canada.
Are they sitting, or sold and waiting for the buyer's to pick them up? The ineos business model can be deceptive.
 

anand

Photo Contest Winner
Forum Moderator
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Mar 12, 2023
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
4,889
Location
Maryland
With the upcoming massive ad campaign/budget, I feel like the demand will quickly rise on these vehicles and any units in stock will be moving quickly.

as @snowball pointed out, although we're probably approaching the end of the run, many in stock units at dealers are orders that haven't been picked up vs. those who have walked away.
 

chtucker

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Oct 26, 2023
Messages
89
Reaction score
80
Location
Kirkland
There had to be 75 plus, my abandoned order from March hasn’t sold yet
 

DoubleDoom

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
2:29 PM
Joined
Apr 10, 2024
Messages
120
Reaction score
214
Location
UK
75+ sounds a lot but given the distance covered by each dealer, that may not actually be a large number. Especially if the gap between shipments is quite long.
 

ecohen2

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Local time
7:29 AM
Joined
May 16, 2024
Messages
141
Reaction score
171
Location
Boulder, CO, USA
I think your odds of getting a discount on a Grenadier is going for a <1500 mile used one. You are more likely to find an individual willing to take a loss than the dealer...
 
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Sep 26, 2023
Messages
330
Reaction score
218
Location
California, USA
there might be some arrangement between ineos and the dealers (US) that have them hogtied. One dealer I spoke to said that most of the people coming in the showroom are there because they have a car (different brand) being serviced and are killing time. This dealer had several ready to go but little interest. Inventory building, end of the cycle yet dealer unwilling to negotiate. Maybe one of the dealers that follow the board can comment.
 

bikesandguitars

Grenadier Owner
Local time
7:29 AM
Joined
Jun 28, 2023
Messages
266
Reaction score
520
Location
Colorado
The only incentive being offered in the U.S. is on aftermarket parts and accessories. There are no discounts on new models and, in fact, there is a scheduled price increase on 2025 models.
 

bikesandguitars

Grenadier Owner
Local time
7:29 AM
Joined
Jun 28, 2023
Messages
266
Reaction score
520
Location
Colorado
there might be some arrangement between ineos and the dealers (US) that have them hogtied. One dealer I spoke to said that most of the people coming in the showroom are there because they have a car (different brand) being serviced and are killing time. This dealer had several ready to go but little interest. Inventory building, end of the cycle yet dealer unwilling to negotiate. Maybe one of the dealers that follow the board can comment.
There is definitely a contractual agreement that dealers follow Ineos pricing, which includes no market based adjustments. Everyone pays sticker in the U.S.
 

anand

Photo Contest Winner
Forum Moderator
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Mar 12, 2023
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
4,889
Location
Maryland
There is definitely a contractual agreement that dealers follow Ineos pricing, which includes no market based adjustments. Everyone pays sticker in the U.S.
Ineos has said that they can't actually enforce dealers to sell at MSRP in the US; in fact for most of last year the reply from IA was that while the reservation sales would be at MSRP, after that it would be up to the dealer to react with the market
 

anand

Photo Contest Winner
Forum Moderator
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Mar 12, 2023
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
4,889
Location
Maryland
The only incentive being offered in the U.S. is on aftermarket parts and accessories. There are no discounts on new models and, in fact, there is a scheduled price increase on 2025 models.
They are running 2.9% for 60 months currently as well, until the end of July
 

ADVAW8S

Global Grenadier 0044
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
2,902
Location
Kirkland, WA, USA
They are running 2.9% for 60 months currently as well, until the end of July
You are seeing similar financing deals coming from other manufacturers. I say keep ot rolling until the end of year so I can get jn on it.
 
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Sep 26, 2023
Messages
330
Reaction score
218
Location
California, USA
US dealers lack the ability for conceptual thinking. Dealerships, many owned by “old” families, are one of those things that we (the US) have been hanging on to like the vinyl record industry or celluloid film. I’m not anti dealer but I’m anti dealer process. Would like to see a new approach that combined “direct” with the dealer model, like a co-op…buy a car from an Ineos co-op and you become a fractional owner with benefits. Builds loyalty, Ineos now gets real data, and can be a club house of sorts. Just a thought.
 
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
995
Reaction score
873
Location
Pittsburgh
The only incentive being offered in the U.S. is on aftermarket parts and accessories. There are no discounts on new models and, in fact, there is a scheduled price increase on 2025 models.
I got 2.9% from the dealer. That's a nice chunk in interest, and it keeps Ineos from cutting the price, starting a deflationary spiral where people wait, showing losses in the model year, killing resale, bad press, etc. You may be waiting until later winter for them to dump '24's. In which case it may the ones inexplicably ordered sans lockers. As much as I like the truck with lockers, I would hate it without.
 

singlefin

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Feb 12, 2023
Messages
29
Reaction score
46
Location
Hood River
I got 2.9% from the dealer. That's a nice chunk in interest, and it keeps Ineos from cutting the price, starting a deflationary spiral where people wait, showing losses in the model year, killing resale, bad press, etc. You may be waiting until later winter for them to dump '24's. In which case it may the ones inexplicably ordered sans lockers. As much as I like the truck with lockers, I would hate it without.
Wait, did you finally pull the trigger?
 
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
995
Reaction score
873
Location
Pittsburgh
Wait, did you finally pull the trigger?
Yea... and at 500 miles my drivers side door handle is so jacked, the window wont go down all the way, the door wont latch unless its up, it unlatches if unlocked and you lower the window as far as it can go, once locked, it can't be opened from the outside... yea... I bought it alright... waiting on word for shipping it back for repairs. That's not just an inconvenience, its a life safety issue.

Although, had I taken it March, I'd have these issue for a few hundred more a month... always look at the bright side!
 

LeeroyJ

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
5:29 PM
Joined
Oct 30, 2023
Messages
171
Reaction score
307
Location
Arizona, USA
There is definitely a contractual agreement that dealers follow Ineos pricing, which includes no market based adjustments. Everyone pays sticker in the U.S.
Are you sure about this? I haven't heard from any of the dealers about their arrangements with Ineos yet.

I don't know who "owns" the vehicles in the dealer lots. Since Ineos doesn't have a large laydown/storage lot in the US, they may have negotiated with the dealers that Ineos maintains ownership of the vehicles until they are actually sold (just guessing). So if that's the case, the dealers are just acting as a warehouse for Ineos and those unsold units don't really cost the dealers anything (other than parking lot space). In that case they don't have the same financial pressure to get rid of inventory that a traditional dealer might have. But again that is pure speculation on my part.

Interestingly (to me), I thought that manufacturers putting limitations on what price a dealer can sell a vehicle for were against anti-trust laws (because there are tons of forum posts where internet experts tell you that), but at least on a Federal level, that is not actually the case. This FTC article says in relevant part:

"If a manufacturer, on its own, adopts a policy regarding a desired level of prices, the law allows the manufacturer to deal only with retailers who agree to that policy. A manufacturer also may stop dealing with a retailer that does not follow its resale price policy. That is, a manufacturer can implement a dealer policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Limitations on how or where a dealer may sell a product (that is, customer or territory restrictions) are generally legal — if they are imposed by a manufacturer acting on its own. These agreements may result in better sales efforts and service in the dealer's assigned area, and, as a result, more competition with other brands
."

It seems though that some states might have laws that prohibit this.
 

chtucker

Grenadier Owner
Local time
6:29 AM
Joined
Oct 26, 2023
Messages
89
Reaction score
80
Location
Kirkland
Did the deal.. picked up my own abandoned order from March/April. Couple of glitches (stained cargo area) and spare tire rattle... and it needs to go back for seat covers/side runners..

Wife is very happy, I am happy, pretty good outcome.


image0(3).jpeg
 
Local time
9:29 AM
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
995
Reaction score
873
Location
Pittsburgh
Its a franchise so either they own them or they floor planned them. As for pricing, I believe most of these cars were pre-orders with agreed upon pricing. You're gonna have a real tough time proving collusion when it's not in any dealers best interest to cut pricing when per-ordered cars without money down haven't been delivered yet. It would be suicide as soon as the word got out to the undelivered orders, as they all balked for a better price.

You have 6 more days of 2.9%. Put the min down, and place the rest in an index at 15% and be ahead. They are paying you to finance the car. Take it if you want it.
 

bikesandguitars

Grenadier Owner
Local time
7:29 AM
Joined
Jun 28, 2023
Messages
266
Reaction score
520
Location
Colorado
Are you sure about this? I haven't heard from any of the dealers about their arrangements with Ineos yet.

I don't know who "owns" the vehicles in the dealer lots. Since Ineos doesn't have a large laydown/storage lot in the US, they may have negotiated with the dealers that Ineos maintains ownership of the vehicles until they are actually sold (just guessing). So if that's the case, the dealers are just acting as a warehouse for Ineos and those unsold units don't really cost the dealers anything (other than parking lot space). In that case they don't have the same financial pressure to get rid of inventory that a traditional dealer might have. But again that is pure speculation on my part.

Interestingly (to me), I thought that manufacturers putting limitations on what price a dealer can sell a vehicle for were against anti-trust laws (because there are tons of forum posts where internet experts tell you that), but at least on a Federal level, that is not actually the case. This FTC article says in relevant part:

"If a manufacturer, on its own, adopts a policy regarding a desired level of prices, the law allows the manufacturer to deal only with retailers who agree to that policy. A manufacturer also may stop dealing with a retailer that does not follow its resale price policy. That is, a manufacturer can implement a dealer policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Limitations on how or where a dealer may sell a product (that is, customer or territory restrictions) are generally legal — if they are imposed by a manufacturer acting on its own. These agreements may result in better sales efforts and service in the dealer's assigned area, and, as a result, more competition with other brands
."

It seems though that some states might have laws that prohibit this.

Manufacturers are certainly allowed to enforce MSRP or franchise pricing and have several ways to address dealers that violate MSRP. They can limit allocations or even cancel franchise agreements. Granted, there are different rules in different states for minimum advertised pricing, market adjustment, offered pricing, etc., but there are no restrictions in any state on “everyone pays the exact same price”.

As for how payments work, I don’t know the specifics of the Ineos franchise but, generally speaking, the dealer agreement guarantees a certain number of allocations from the manufacturer each defined period in exchange for immediate payment from the dealer. Most manufacturers require payment be made upon receipt of the vehicle. That does not mean that a dealer writes a check to the manufacturer. Usually, there is a financing arm in place that allows the dealer to take delivery and the manufacturer to get paid with very little cash outlay by the dealer - and immediate payment made to the manufacturer.

Arguably, the greatest benefit of the franchised dealer system is in the steady flow of inventory to the dealer. If you’ll recall the crazy demand for used cars during the pandemic and the astronomical prices dealers were paying, it’s easy to understand how important a steady flow of inventory is to the dealer.

Finally, don’t expect any dealers to freely disclose the terms of their seller agreements with any manufacturer. There are strict NDA’s in place long before any franchise agreement is offered. I doubt you’re going to hear from any dealers about their agreement with Ineos.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom