Battery drain - what is causing it?

NoAge Hunter · Apr 7, 2024

Hi toghether

First off all I would like to express that I am very happy with the Grenadier - just to start in the right manner

Okay that said here comes the topic I need to understand:
That the battery drained in the Grenadier is discussed as far as I know. My question is: what is causing it ? Because the amount of drop could be rather high - depending on the circumsrances.

What I figured out so far (dual batterie system installed):
1. If I lock the care I loose 3-4 % at night…with this I would be okay.
2. If the two back doors are open with the interior lights on- you loose alprox. 10 % in an hour. Okay, easy - swith the lights of. That results in point 3….
3. If all interior lights are switched off, just the back doors are open I lost 40% in one night!! (See rhe graph in the picture)
(All % meant by SOC)

So here comes what makes me wonder: what is using so much energy even if all lights are off and just the doors are open? What is causing the high difference between closed doors and open doors if obviously it is not the lights?
Has somebody done an equal observation or even better: a fix to that topic?

Michael

Mr. Largo WINCH · Apr 7, 2024

Bonsoir
Trialmaster Diesel
Hier soir
Contact mis : Batterie principale 12,4 volts secondaire 12,95 Volts Charge affichée à 88 %
Ce midi avec seulement le contact batterie principale 12,1 Volts Charge affichée 79 % (Courant de décharge indiqué entre 10 et 11 Ampères alors que rien n'est en fonction (?)

Bilan perte de 9 % de la charge en une nuit sans aucun équipement en fonction !!!

Il y a manifestement un problème de gestion de l'énergie sur ce véhicule.

NoAge Hunter · Apr 7, 2024

Mr. Largo WINCH said:
Bonsoir
Trialmaster Diesel
Hier soir
Contact mis : Batterie principale 12,4 volts secondaire 12,95 Volts Charge affichée à 88 %
Ce midi avec seulement le contact batterie principale 12,1 Volts Charge affichée 79 % (Courant de décharge indiqué entre 10 et 11 Ampères alors que rien n'est en fonction (?)

Bilan perte de 9 % de la charge en une nuit sans aucun équipement en fonction !!!

Il y a manifestement un problème de gestion de l'énergie sur ce véhicule.

Sorry for not speaking french….

NoAge Hunter · Apr 7, 2024

NoAge Hunter said:
Sorry for not speaking french….

Okay- google translate helps…..
I agree that there is a problem in the energy control system….the questions is: what us causing the consumption?!

bemax · Apr 7, 2024

NoAge Hunter said:
Hi toghether

First off all I would like to express that I am very happy with the Grenadier - just to start in the right manner

Okay that said here comes the topic I need to understand:
That the battery drained in the Grenadier is discussed as far as I know. My question is: what is causing it ? Because the amount of drop could be rather high - depending on the circumsrances.

What I figured out so far (dual batterie system installed):
1. If I lock the care I loose 3-4 % at night…with this I would be okay.
2. If the two back doors are open with the interior lights on- you loose alprox. 10 % in an hour. Okay, easy - swith the lights of. That results in point 3….
3. If all interior lights are switched off, just the back doors are open I lost 40% in one night!! (See rhe graph in the picture)
(All % meant by SOC)

So here comes what makes me wonder: what is using so much energy even if all lights are off and just the doors are open? What is causing the high difference between closed doors and open doors if obviously it is not the lights?
Has somebody done an equal observation or even better: a fix to that topic?

Michael

I had a similar problem. While I never measured the loss per hour or day the internal state of charge showed a drop from approximately 80 % to 7 % within a good week.
My dealer looked at it very carefully and found a irritating high fluctuating of voltage on the first battery over the days they had the car.
So they decided that the battery had a failure and changed it into a new one.
Afterwards the problem never occurred again.

NoAge Hunter · Apr 7, 2024

bemax said:
I had a similar problem. While I never measured the loss per hour or day the internal state of charge showed a drop from approximately 80 % to 7 % within a good week.
My dealer looked at it very carefully and found a irritating high fluctuating of voltage on the first battery over the days they had the car.
So they decided that the battery had a failure and changed it into a new one.
Afterwards the problem never occurred again.

Well that‘s interesting. Thanks for sharing.
But would that explain why it drops significantly faster with open doors?

That said, again - thanks for sharing.

Lollo050968 · Apr 7, 2024

Yesterday, while I was as doing the mods in the boot, the care was open with min 3 doors over 12h. The Interieur lights shutdown after a few minutes. The battery was drained from “nothing“ 100% to 67% (external battery monitor, not information screen), Starter Battery and backup.
I think there are several control units, which shut not down, while a door is open or the car whole not closed.
Today after 30min drive on my battery monitor back on 98% and 80% on the Ineos information screen

Mr. Largo WINCH · Apr 7, 2024

Traduction

NoAge Hunter · Apr 7, 2024

Lollo050968 said:
Yesterday, while I was as doing the mods in the boot, the care was open with min 3 doors over 12h. The Interieur lights shutdown after a few minutes. The battery was drained from “nothing“ 100% to 67% (external battery monitor, not information screen), Starter Battery and backup.
I think there are several control units, which shut not down, while a door is open or the car whole not closed.
Today after 30min drive on my battery monitor back on 98% and 80% on the Ineos information screen

This is exactly what I believe too. If the doors are not closed the „control unite, the computer or whatever is not shutting down.

Mr. Largo WINCH · Apr 7, 2024

Bonjour.
Trajet de 170 km aujourd'hui
Avant le départ
Contact mis : Courant de décharge (sans aucun équipement en fonction) 11 A - Tension Batterie 12,1 Volts Charge Batterie 79 %
J'ai noté les valeurs pendant le trajet
Courant de charge / Tension Batterie / Charge Batterie
8 A - 14,2 Volts - 86 %
7 A - 14,2 Volts - 87 %
5 A - 14,2 Volts - 88 %
4 A - 14,2 Volts - 88 %
3 A - 14,2 Volts - 89 %
Arrivée à destination puis deux heures d'arrêt 16h27

Contact mis : Courant de décharge 9 A - Tension Batterie 12,6 Volts - Charge Batterie 88 % puis démarrage trajet retour
3 A - 14,6 Volts - 89 %
3 A - 14,2 Volts - 90 %
2 A - 14,2 Volts - 91 %
Garé moteur en route (17h44)
Courant de décharge 27 A - Tension Batterie 12,6 Volts - Charge Batterie 91 %

La charge Batterie augmente de 12 % sur 170 km.
Dernière manœuvre dans le jardin (usage des freins et du levier de commande de la boîte automatique), avec la charge batterie toujours à 91 %, le courant de décharge passe brutalement à 27 A et reste à cette valeur pour une tension batterie de 12, 6 Volts, sans aucun équipement connecté.

D'où vient cette consommation de 27 A qui provoque la chute de la tension Batterie (réelle et confirmée par le voltmètre positionné sur INT2) alors que le véhicule est à l'arrêt moteur tournant ???
Merci de vos remarques et commentaires.
Bonne soirée

Mr. Largo WINCH · Apr 12, 2024

Bonjour à tous
Suite à ma visite chez INEOS Bymycar Villeneuve Loubet pour un diagnostic du système électrique, le technicien a réalisé un essai avec un ampèremètre entre la batterie et la masse de la voiture pour mesurer le courant de fuite, moteur coupé et contact Off. Il a mesuré un courant de fuite de 8 mA ce qui est très peu. La batterie de 105 Ah ne peut pas se vider uniquement avec ce courant de fuite. A 8 mA durant 24h00, on consomme 0,192 Ah soit 0,18 % de la charge de la batterie de 105 Ah. Suite aux conseils du technicien, j'ai commencé à enregistrer le niveau de charge de la batterie (moteur coupé et contact mis) et à faire une photo de l'écran à chaque fois.
Le tableau des relevés effectués montre que la batterie avait perdu ce matin à 9h04, 22% de sa charge en un peu moins de 48 heures.
En l'absence de courant de fuite lorsque le véhicule est à l'arrêt (moteur et contact coupés), cette décharge rapide de 22% en 48 heures ne peut être que la conséquence d'un défaut « Batterie » et sans doute le signe d'une batterie défectueuse.
Votre avis ?

Logsplitter · Apr 12, 2024

Or could all this be down to a software fault and batteries being ok but Grenadier screen telling you otherwise. At one point I opened the vehicle in the morning and the screen showed 0% battery charge
It started with no problem and immediately showed 80% on the screen and whilst camping we always leave our doors shut on the first click so not fully shut so as not to keep turning interior lights on and off. Only fully shutting and locking the vehicle before going to sleep or leaving the vehicle for some reason. Just a thought

NoAge Hunter · Apr 12, 2024

Logsplitter said:
Or could all this be down to a software fault and batteries being ok but Grenadier screen telling you otherwise. At one point I opened the vehicle in the morning and the screen showed 0% battery charge
It started with no problem and immediately showed 80% on the screen and whilst camping we always leave our doors shut on the first click so not fully shut so as not to keep turning interior lights on and off. Only fully shutting and locking the vehicle before going to sleep or leaving the vehicle for some reason. Just a thought

Hi Logsplitter,
Initially I did had the same thought. Hiwever, I have a independent battery monitor system installed and that shows the same heavy drain.
Very interesting the so many have the problem.
Maybe the guys from Ineos who might checking this forum have any idea?

NoAge Hunter · Apr 12, 2024

Mr. Largo WINCH said:
Bonjour à tous
Suite à ma visite chez INEOS Bymycar Villeneuve Loubet pour un diagnostic du système électrique, le technicien a réalisé un essai avec un ampèremètre entre la batterie et la masse de la voiture pour mesurer le courant de fuite, moteur coupé et contact Off. Il a mesuré un courant de fuite de 8 mA ce qui est très peu. La batterie de 105 Ah ne peut pas se vider uniquement avec ce courant de fuite. A 8 mA durant 24h00, on consomme 0,192 Ah soit 0,18 % de la charge de la batterie de 105 Ah. Suite aux conseils du technicien, j'ai commencé à enregistrer le niveau de charge de la batterie (moteur coupé et contact mis) et à faire une photo de l'écran à chaque fois.
Le tableau des relevés effectués montre que la batterie avait perdu ce matin à 9h04, 22% de sa charge en un peu moins de 48 heures.
En l'absence de courant de fuite lorsque le véhicule est à l'arrêt (moteur et contact coupés), cette décharge rapide de 22% en 48 heures ne peut être que la conséquence d'un défaut « Batterie » et sans doute le signe d'une batterie défectueuse.
Votre avis ?

View attachment 7852684

View attachment 7852683

Thanks for that info

Bayford · Apr 12, 2024

Similar issue on my Grenadier (dual battery set up, delivered September 2023). Ineos replaced the batteries on first warranty return. Failed to solve the problem. Second warranty return Ineos diagnosed the problem as a faulty LIN Bus Data controller and replaced that. Problem solved when vehicle stationary with a cold engine but not when parked after the engine had been running under load. Current Ineos thought process on third warranty return trip is that the auxiliary cooling pump and wiring to it from the new LIN Bus Data Controller are both in need of replacement due to excessive corrosion and that when this is replaced the problem of battery drainage will be solved. Car is still at the dealers after 2 months so I have no idea if their latest thinking will solve the problem or not but it might be worth asking your dealer to have a look in this direction.

Jean Mercier · Apr 12, 2024

Mr. Largo WINCH said:
Bonjour à tous
Suite à ma visite chez INEOS Bymycar Villeneuve Loubet pour un diagnostic du système électrique, le technicien a réalisé un essai avec un ampèremètre entre la batterie et la masse de la voiture pour mesurer le courant de fuite, moteur coupé et contact Off. Il a mesuré un courant de fuite de 8 mA ce qui est très peu. La batterie de 105 Ah ne peut pas se vider uniquement avec ce courant de fuite. A 8 mA durant 24h00, on consomme 0,192 Ah soit 0,18 % de la charge de la batterie de 105 Ah. Suite aux conseils du technicien, j'ai commencé à enregistrer le niveau de charge de la batterie (moteur coupé et contact mis) et à faire une photo de l'écran à chaque fois.
Le tableau des relevés effectués montre que la batterie avait perdu ce matin à 9h04, 22% de sa charge en un peu moins de 48 heures.
En l'absence de courant de fuite lorsque le véhicule est à l'arrêt (moteur et contact coupés), cette décharge rapide de 22% en 48 heures ne peut être que la conséquence d'un défaut « Batterie » et sans doute le signe d'une batterie défectueuse.
Votre avis ?

View attachment 7852684

View attachment 7852683

For your information, my main battery showed yesterday at 15h 12.73Volts and at 10h20 today 12.69 Volts. The car didn't move, no doors went open, nothing in these 19h20.
This was monitored by my "Chinese battery spy".

Google translate says: "
Pour information, ma batterie principale affichait hier à 15h 12,73Volts et à 10h20 aujourd'hui 12,69 Volts. La voiture n'a pas bougé, aucune porte ne s'est ouverte, rien pendant ces 19h20.
Cela a été surveillé par mon « espion chinois de la batterie »."
(Really good translation, only for the second phrase I would use other wordings)

Tom109 · Apr 12, 2024

I think I’m getting a couple “Chinese battery spies”. My son is adding a 10W solar trickle charger to his Subaru and we need to collect data. After that I’d like to collect data on both of my Grenadier batteries!

Arlette · Apr 20, 2024

Battery problem or electrical discharge? My Grenadier has a single battery and the vehicle is 12 months old. No sw upgrade yet (grrrr……). Battery has been fine but I don’t have auxiliary loads. And then I decided for some reason to charge my phone from rear cigar outlet which requires auz power switch to be on. Charged phone but forgot to turn of aux power switch. Result rapid battery drain! Engine started on 10% charge and battery recharged but over a few weeks it’s apparent battery SOC has fallen to 50% and is only accepting 5Amps when running. Engine off and battery at 12v. Resorted to Ctek battery charger which charged and reconditioned battery. Last night SOC was 100% and just now 84% but no draw between apart from alarm and open close to check.

So I conclude there is a power drain and the battery is knackered! Any thoughts

Jean Mercier · Apr 20, 2024

Arlette said:
Battery problem or electrical discharge? My Grenadier has a single battery and the vehicle is 12 months old. No sw upgrade yet (grrrr……). Battery has been fine but I don’t have auxiliary loads. And then I decided for some reason to charge my phone from rear cigar outlet which requires auz power switch to be on. Charged phone but forgot to turn of aux power switch. Result rapid battery drain! Engine started on 10% charge and battery recharged but over a few weeks it’s apparent battery SOC has fallen to 50% and is only accepting 5Amps when running. Engine off and battery at 12v. Resorted to Ctek battery charger which charged and reconditioned battery. Last night SOC was 100% and just now 84% but no draw between apart from alarm and open close to check.

So I conclude there is a power drain and the battery is knackered! Any thoughts

Personally I would not be too concerned about 84% when opening the car, sitting in it with (I guess) the contact on to check the battery status. While you do that you drain quite a bit of current, and the voltage drops.
I checked it some moment ago in my car, but I have also the auxiliary battery.
The car didn't move the last 4 days and the voltage dropped from 12.81 volts to 12.68 volts while I only opened the car like 3 times, see the voltage drops on the graph.

Screenshot_20240420_145333_Battery Monitor.jpg

Today, before opening any door and doing the check IN the car I checked with my Chinese voltage monitoring spies. Main battery says 12.68 Volts and SOC (State if Charge) 87%. Beware, I don't know if the SOC calculation of the Chinese monitor uses the same algorithm as my Grenadier.
Funny thing is that my Auxiliary battery states 95% SOC with the same voltage, probably because the Voltage measurement was done at a moment the Smartpass was draining the current for recharging the Main battery!

As soon as I open the door and put my contact on, I get a significant but normal voltage drop, and SOC of 84%:

Screenshot_20240420_145242_Battery Monitor.jpg

Confirmed by my car, SOC 83%:

The pulses seen on my battery spy is the CTEK Smartpass recharging the Main battery from the Auxiliary, pulses of about 8A.

Therefore, again, a SOC of 84% doesn't seem to be an issue if you are using your car computer.

Skydance · Apr 20, 2024

Arlette said:
Battery problem or electrical discharge? My Grenadier has a single battery and the vehicle is 12 months old. No sw upgrade yet (grrrr……). Battery has been fine but I don’t have auxiliary loads. And then I decided for some reason to charge my phone from rear cigar outlet which requires auz power switch to be on. Charged phone but forgot to turn of aux power switch. Result rapid battery drain! Engine started on 10% charge and battery recharged but over a few weeks it’s apparent battery SOC has fallen to 50% and is only accepting 5Amps when running. Engine off and battery at 12v. Resorted to Ctek battery charger which charged and reconditioned battery. Last night SOC was 100% and just now 84% but no draw between apart from alarm and open close to check.

So I conclude there is a power drain and the battery is knackered! Any thoughts

Mines exactly the same as yours. Single battery, 12 month old, diesel and stop start doesn’t work (never worked). I’m interested to know too. It’s either the battery is knackered or software controlling the smart battery charger because I remember one time when I got in, it said 10% battery charge. Next day 84% without me doing anything. Never been above 90%. I’ve had the software update too (1946). Last time my dealer looked at it said it was normal. Occasionally I get Ecall low battery. That’s the emergency call button in the overhead console which I believe has a separate inbuilt battery pack which charges itself when the car is running.

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Battery drain - what is causing it?

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