Land Rover feeling the Heat?

bbq4133 · Mar 12, 2024

Tom109 said:
Come June dealers should be caught up and it will be nice to see actual NA sales numbers. From what I’ve read on this forum, 2024 production has been fully booked and new orders are for 2025 MY.

That's my understanding from my local dealer; unless you're buying what's available right now as an order reject (or if the dealer itself ordered?), it's going to be all 2025 MY from here forward.

AWo · Apr 5, 2024

The German statistics for March and modell by brand will be published on the 8th of April.

However, new overall registrations by brand for March:

Ineos: 42
Land Rover: 1231

AWo

DaveB · Apr 5, 2024

[ Adam ] said:
Logisticsflation of shipping parts across the globe when they can be sourced on the continent and trucked around would have lead to higher prices and increased the delayflation given COVID era supply chain issues.

I think sourcing European manufacturers was prudent.

Exactly.
Plus many of us wouldn't want more American components or a USD$50-55G vehicle.
That would make it more like a Jeep which is complete rubbish.

AWo · Apr 11, 2024

German official statistics of new car registrations from the KBA year-to-month-end March 2024
JLR New Defender: 1030 (+319 in March)
JLR Discovery: 123 (+66 in March)
JLR Range Rover: 328 (+100 in March)
JLR Land Rover all-in-all: 3279

Ineos: 183 (+42 in March)

N1 are included in these niumbers.

AWo

AWo · Apr 19, 2024

I put now the correct numbers into the chart for the official German car register statistics from the KBA. I added the N1 type to the numbers of the M1 type, the Quartermaster is extra. I can only assume it is the Quartermaster as the statistics lists the "Grenadier" and one Ineos car type called "Other" in the M1 section. I don't know if th Quartermaster may be counted as N1 and is therefore hidden in these numbers.

AWo

AWo · Apr 24, 2024

According to the US Marklines the sales numbers of the Grenadier (and the Land Rover New Defender) in the US are:

January: 760
February: 650
March: 595

That sums up to 2,005 units. In the model drill down the Quartermaster is not listed, yet. The difference in these sheets is that the German numbers are registrations and the US numbers are marked as sales numbers. Just to be precise...

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AWo

Grey Wolf · Apr 24, 2024

The UK figures for Ineos car registration is only 70 for the year so far. I think they need to do a bit of advertising so something, even Bentley have sold 245 .

. To be fair Ineos have also sold 34 more which are the commercial versions so registered as vans .

Mohs 9 · Apr 24, 2024

AWo said:
I don't know if th Quartermaster may be counted as N1 and is therefore hidden in these numbers.

I am pretty sure that the QM is classified as N1, or better as N1G "Geländefahrzeug zur Güterbeförderung". Both my Grenny as also my Fiat Fullback are N1G.

Grey Wolf · Apr 24, 2024

Mohs 9 said:
I am pretty sure that the QM is classified as N1, or better as N1G "Geländefahrzeug zur Güterbeförderung". Both my Grenny as also my Fiat Fullback are N1G.

LCV Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT Van and Truck registrations data

www.smmt.co.uk

AWo · May 7, 2024

I just had a look in a data sheet from the Automobilwoche and if I got it right, the number for registered Ineos cars in Germany is down from 79 in March to 34 in April based on KBA numbers.

Let's see what tomorrow brings, then the data is available at the KBA directly.

AWo

Cheshire cat · May 7, 2024

Big sales are not always required.
Take the subject of power tools. Makita have an unrivalled reputation and are absolutely huge. They are also good value and respected. Doesn’t stop the likes of Festool, Fein and Mafell, who still carve out (pardon the pun), a very healthy niche, even when charging twice the price or more.

trobex · May 7, 2024

Cheshire cat said:
Big sales are not always required.
Take the subject of power tools. Makita have an unrivalled reputation and are absolutely huge. They are also good value and respected. Doesn’t stop the likes of Festool, Fein and Mafell, who still carve out (pardon the pun), a very healthy niche, even when charging twice the price or more.

My Makita drill is actually made in Japan... you cannot beat the quality and price point for this.

AWo · May 15, 2024

German official statistics of new car registrations from the KBA year-to-month-end April 2024
JLR New Defender: 1359 (+329 in April)
JLR Discovery: 183 (+60 in April)
JLR Range Rover: 432 (+104 in April)
JLR Land Rover all-in-all: 4486

Ineos: 330 (+57 April)

N1 numbers are included for the Grenadier and are corrected for the whole of 2024, now. In the former posts the N! numbers were missing in the total.

tnkatoy · May 16, 2024

Wow, Awo’s figures go to show how much damage New Defender is doing to the rest of the JLR range. JLR is going to have to invest some serious coin to update Disco if they want it to survive (pretty sure they are developing the Disco 6), which is probably just going to end up competing more with their Range Rover products rather than bringing in new customers over and above what New Defender already has done.

I am surprised at how well Grenadier is selling for such a niche product, so yes, it is doing damage to JLR, or probably more correctly, JLR did the damage to themselves when they created opportunity for Grenadier to replace Defender.

The other thing is that I’d expect Grenadier to keep selling pretty much as is, in its niche market, whereas New Defender is now in a generic market where sales will drop off unless JLR regularly updates it to stay relevant and competitive, keeping it expensive and less reliable as an expedition vehicle.

AWo · May 23, 2024

tnkatoy said:
Wow, Awo’s figures go to show how much damage New Defender is doing to the rest of the JLR range. JLR is going to have to invest some serious coin to update Disco if they want it to survive (pretty sure they are developing the Disco 6), which is probably just going to end up competing more with their Range Rover products rather than bringing in new customers over and above what New Defender already has done.

I don't know if JLR has the same view as you.

They just published that 2023 was a record year, thanks to plug-in-hybrid cars.

PHEV increased in sales about 70% (45.000 units), the JLR EBITA was 2.5 Billion Euros, the best EBITA in 15 years. Sales was 34 Billion Euros, the margin is 8,5%, which means they also managed to become a premium car manufacturer.

AWo

landmannnn · May 23, 2024

JLR are doing great. Their stated aim was to go upmarket, which they clearly have done.
Is the IG head to head with the new Defender? It wouldn't be for me, but perhaps others would choose between the two.

Tinerfeño · May 23, 2024

Marketwise JLR may do well.

Productwise they are lost. 2,0-litre Ingenium diesel is the worst engine ever, 95% of engines fail before 150' km/100' mi and there are about million cars with those. Dealer network doesn't take 5-year old cars in exchange to a new one because of the expected problems. Present range of products includes only vehicles that are overcomplicated, plastic, not repairable (or too expensive to repair) and totally worthless off-road. Sorry to say.

NATO has used huge amounts of 2,5-litre NA diesel Land Rover Defenders. I doubt they will use any of the present. Imagine Range Rover Evoque or Velar in camo painting

Voader - Oudersopzwier · May 23, 2024

Tinerfeño said:
NATO has used huge amounts of 2,5-litre NA diesel Land Rover Defenders. I doubt they will use any of the present. Imagine Range Rover Evoque or Velar in camo painting

...and a rocket launcher! or .50 machinegun.

S52 · May 28, 2024

Tinerfeño said:
Marketwise JLR may do well.

Productwise they are lost. 2,0-litre Ingenium diesel is the worst engine ever, 95% of engines fail before 150' km/100' mi and there are about million cars with those. Dealer network doesn't take 5-year old cars in exchange to a new one because of the expected problems. Present range of products includes only vehicles that are overcomplicated, plastic, not repairable (or too expensive to repair) and totally worthless off-road. Sorry to say.

NATO has used huge amounts of 2,5-litre NA diesel Land Rover Defenders. I doubt they will use any of the present. Imagine Range Rover Evoque or Velar in camo painting

LR has really jumped the shark… (as have most automotive manufacturers). I adore my RRC’s but you wouldnt catch me dead in any of their recent models. Everything made now is only designed to last through the factory warranty period. Engineered obsolescense is at play nowadays.

As much as I would love to keep my on order IG on the road for my lifetime, I think well be lucky to keep these rigs roadworthy for the next 10 years… Too much reliance on computers which have an expiration date.

DaveB · May 28, 2024

landmannnn said:
JLR are doing great. Their stated aim was to go upmarket, which they clearly have done.
Is the IG head to head with the new Defender? It wouldn't be for me, but perhaps others would choose between the two.

They have a pretty bad reputation here for quality, customer service and support

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