Handles

Lars said:

the banter on forums is just exhausting...
Few are going to change their opinions based on the experts here.

Click to expand...

yeah, I got a little over excited.

TNT647 said:

Wouldn’t the passenger handle be just as dangerous to the passenger as there is a passenger airbag as well? are u making stuff up?

Click to expand...

Indeed the curtain airbags are the same at both sides, but ...
I see one difference between the driver's side and passenger side: the passenger side has an airbag on the dashboard, the driver side has it in the steering wheel!
Therefore the behavior in case of a crash of both airbags combined is different (both = the curtain airbag + the dash or steering wheel airbag)
But I don't know if that is the explanation.

[EDITED] I apologize, I see there were similar comments of other posters.

Very generally speaking... aren't steering wheel air bags smaller than front passenger bags? I could easily envision a driver side handle catching someone square in the forehead from a head on collision if the driver's head slightly misses the center of the bag and deflects off to the window side.

Let's come up with a solution: How about a "soft" handle made of webbing or paracord attached to the factory anchor points? You'd still need the foreign spec A pillar trim piece to look clean. Maybe a piece leather strapping to match the Saddle Leather driver's pack?

There is no difference in the sides. The reason for no grab handle on the drivers side is possible field of view impacts. There are a few vehicles in Aus now with the grab handle fitted to the drivers side. My wife and I were lucky to be able to test it in someone else's car for field of vision at the recent SEQLD Owners get together. My wife being shorter than me finds it significantly easier to get in with it, and neither of us found it gets in the way of vision.

You can get if fitted by a dealer if you so wish. The small trims are amazingly expensive so you can just buy the handle part and the screws are exceptional value. The mounting blocks and all the pieces are identical to the left side ... what you can do is creatively cut the cutouts on the A pillar trim to fit the handle. I did it using tracing paper roughly modelling the cutout from the left side to the rights side, then a couple of hole saw holds and chewing out just the clearance for the handle. A couple of hours beginning to end last night.
Parts:

• Grab Handle (universal) GRA-07000-022530 was AUD$266 (makes the 78 Euro someone posted earlier look like a real bargain)
• The two screws GRA-0000-000150 were $1.56

Did away with the covers - and I am looking at 3D Scan/Print of my left hand side pair (which are mirror image parts so a scan of one might be enough and then flip it in CAD)

Handle fit from the underside - (original handle, manufacturer original cutout LHD pillar in Aus): shows quite a lot of clearance on both pieces (the little spigots are different sizes at each end - and the bigger one is obscured by the metal plate on the right)


Old school with the tracing paper and a highlight to show you where the pencil lead traced onto, and the end result with the two pieces side by side (it didn't have to be perfect I just nibbled enough out after the hole saw cuts to get the handle to fit).


You have to stick your head past the wheel to see the missing covers (or look through the windscreen) - so I poked the iPhone in there and took this slightly out of focus shot: (And for the curious folks, that's a Safety Dave caravan reversing camera monitor sitting next to it - just shuffled a little further in).



Cheers all.

[ Adam ] said:

Actually my post is based on a conversation I had with folks at Ineos.

Quit acting like a clown.

Click to expand...

To be fair, some of the conversations that have come from US Ineos personnel are at odds with what is coming from the rest of the AI world or what is currently known. (7 seat model coming et al) I have no idea why we all don't have driver handles.
Also, your statement that drivers come closer to the windshield is factually incorrect, the drivers airbag is deployed at the same time as passengers, the passenger bag is larger due to the distance of the bag from the occupant, contact time should be equal assuming both passenger and driver are approx the same weight. The curtain airbag unrolls in a downward direction and has no contact with the drivers bag as it follows the window line so installing a handle in this position should not be an issue. I have questioned this with IA APAC and they did not have a definitive answer.

MrMike said:

Also, your statement that drivers come closer to the windshield is factually incorrect,

Click to expand...

I'm not sure you are correct here. To be clear, I was told that it had to do with unbelted driver passive restraint - not movement of the driver towards the windshield.

I should have been more clear on that.

MrMike said:

the passenger bag is larger

Click to expand...

This I believe is the crux of why there is no handle on the DS. The difference between size and location of the front airbags on DS and PS.

MrMike said:

due to the distance of the bag from the occupant, contact time should be equal assuming both passenger and driver are approx the same weight. The curtain airbag unrolls in a downward direction and has no contact with the drivers bag as it follows the window line so installing a handle in this position should not be an issue. I have questioned this with IA APAC and they did not have a definitive answer.

Click to expand...

I disagree that installation of the handle on the DS is not an issue, as the IA engineer in this thread has already said, and IA USA have confirmed it is, due to unbelted passive restraint testing.

[ Adam ] said:

I'm not sure you are correct here. To be clear, I was told that it had to do with unbelted driver passive restraint - not movement of the driver towards the windshield.

I should have been more clear on that.




This I believe is the crux of why there is no handle on the DS. The difference between size and location of the front airbags on DS and PS.



I disagree that installation of the handle on the DS is not an issue, as the IA engineer in this thread has already said, and IA USA have confirmed it is, due to unbelted passive restraint testing.

Click to expand...

What is this "unbelted passive restraint " you speak of?

Airbags and seat belts are considered passive restraints.

FMVSS 208 requires a unbelted passive restraint (air bag) crash test, as illustrated in the video I linked above.

douggie said:

There is no difference in the sides. The reason for no grab handle on the drivers side is possible field of view impacts. There are a few vehicles in Aus now with the grab handle fitted to the drivers side. My wife and I were lucky to be able to test it in someone else's car for field of vision at the recent SEQLD Owners get together. My wife being shorter than me finds it significantly easier to get in with it, and neither of us found it gets in the way of vision.

You can get if fitted by a dealer if you so wish. The small trims are amazingly expensive so you can just buy the handle part and the screws are exceptional value. The mounting blocks and all the pieces are identical to the left side ... what you can do is creatively cut the cutouts on the A pillar trim to fit the handle. I did it using tracing paper roughly modelling the cutout from the left side to the rights side, then a couple of hole saw holds and chewing out just the clearance for the handle. A couple of hours beginning to end last night.
Parts:

• Grab Handle (universal) GRA-07000-022530 was AUD$266 (makes the 78 Euro someone posted earlier look like a real bargain)
• The two screws GRA-0000-000150 were $1.56

Did away with the covers - and I am looking at 3D Scan/Print of my left hand side pair (which are mirror image parts so a scan of one might be enough and then flip it in CAD)

Handle fit from the underside - (original handle, manufacturer original cutout LHD pillar in Aus): shows quite a lot of clearance on both pieces (the little spigots are different sizes at each end - and the bigger one is obscured by the metal plate on the right)
View attachment 7842191View attachment 7842192

Old school with the tracing paper and a highlight to show you where the pencil lead traced onto, and the end result with the two pieces side by side (it didn't have to be perfect I just nibbled enough out after the hole saw cuts to get the handle to fit).
View attachment 7842188 View attachment 7842189

You have to stick your head past the wheel to see the missing covers (or look through the windscreen) - so I poked the iPhone in there and took this slightly out of focus shot: (And for the curious folks, that's a Safety Dave caravan reversing camera monitor sitting next to it - just shuffled a little further in).

View attachment 7842190

Cheers all.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing - this method makes plenty of sense and is doable for certain. I'm a bit OCD and the lack of covers would get to me and if I 3D-printed them, the color mismatch would bug me too. I know, I'm mental. I would probably take the pass side covers and put on driver side since I'd see that everyday and let plan B sit on the passenger side.

[ Adam ] said:

Airbags and seat belts are considered passive restraints.

FMVSS 208 requires a unbelted passive restraint (air bag) crash test, as illustrated in the video I linked above.

Click to expand...

Then it makes no sense as this only applies to US delived vehicles.
Airbags are hardly "passive" , seat belts I can understand, but I guess that's a local terminology.

MrMike said:

Then it makes no sense as this only applies to US delived vehicles.
Airbags are hardly "passive" , seat belts I can understand, but I guess that's a local terminology.

Click to expand...

I don't know that only the US requires the test, I simply know that the US does require the test.

I'm thinking this discussion will never be settled. Bottom line...those of us that really want the DS handle would be willing to roll the dice on the air bag concerns. Life is a gamble every time you get into your vehicle.

anand said:

This is pretty standard practice for virtually all brands at this point, so it is unlikely that it will change. From having to deal with acquiring special order parts from Europe for vehicles in the past (I spent just shy of 2 decades in the European automotive aftermarket/service world), it is anything but simple and straight forward, and usually just not worth it for the brand/dealer to get involved unfortunately

Click to expand...

Well ain’t it nice that (1) someone invented Venmo, (2) there is international shipping, and (3) this is an international forum

stickshifter said:

Well ain’t it nice that (1) someone invented Venmo, (2) there is international shipping, and (3) this is an international forum

Click to expand...

Do you want my address so you can buy me one

Krabby said:

Do you want my address so you can buy me one

Click to expand...

We’re both in the US

stickshifter said:

We’re both in the US

Click to expand...

I'll just use your Venmo, it'll be fine

Krabby said:

I'll just use your Venmo, it'll be fine

Click to expand...

Are you related to my good friend who is a prince in Nigeria? I'll send you my bank account info pronto

TNT647 said:

if u re-read his post, he said that the air bag on the a pillar was an issue when it deploys,...this positioned is not settled. there are other post/threads on this same topic that states the airbag was not an issue. so my ask is valid, are you making this up? then u started the personal insults...with regards to not understanding driver vs passenger side then now with my simple world view. as i said, if other manufacturers have figure how to solve this issue, its reasonable to expect Ineos to solve this as well..

if the OP was insultled, i will aplogize to the OP, mano a mano. But Adam, you on the other hand, are just just hating me without being slighted by me.

Click to expand...

I was in the same conversation with a very knowledgeable person at Ineos and I assure you that Adam is telling God's honest truth. They could not get the approval to sell the Grenadier because it would not have passed the crash testing with the handle in place. Due to the way that an unrestrained crash test dummy / human body in the driver's seat behaved during the testing, as specifically related to the driver's side airbag, steering wheel and the grab handle, so it was removed.

TNT647 said:

i just want a driver side handle because im short, fat and not very athletic. i need the assist...

Click to expand...

I need it too, but after the conversation, I have decided to just use the steering wheel like I have been doing. I know it's not good for the steering wheel head.

All this talk about the handle surronds unbelted drrivers. So wear a seatbelt, problem solved. we have to anyway. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Anyway, if anyone seriously does want one and cant get it direct themselves. I am happy to ask the dealer about ordering some and to see what postage would cost for you. Obviously Ineos stuff aint cheap, and ordering and then OS postage aint quick