Americas Who doesn’t want to wait (or is this a bad sign that buyers are backing out?)

Psignore00 · Dec 29, 2023

Just got this email from my dealer…a couple guys must have backed out

carlg007 · Dec 29, 2023

Psignore00 said:
Just got this email from my dealer…a couple guys must have backed out
View attachment 7837659

I think there could be many reasons. Cost of financing, build quality issues and general state of the economy a recession/depression is coming!

Trialmaster · Dec 29, 2023

Been watching Forbes Youtube channel and without getting into politics - it would seem that politicians are hell bent on ruining the USA (no worries Europe is going through the same self destruction process). I fear for our children.....

GPFACTOR · Dec 29, 2023

It doesn’t surprise me that people are backing out of these. It’s definitely not a vehicle for everyone for many reasons. Plus, once Ineos returned everyone’s deposits in Nov. ($450.00 ain’t much when you consider the cost of the vehicle I know…), there is really no incentive at all for people to take the vehicle if they are not 100% in love with it. Whether it be for how it drives, the new rig gremlins, or the cost. Also, based on what our dealer told us (RDS in PA) there are a few people that actually screwed up their first order, placed a second, and Ineos still made both. So some of them are just waiting on their second one. Since Ineos made it impossible to change anything on your order, I know a few people that wanted to add a few important things they left out of their first build, and opted to wait for their second, or find another cancellation. Ineos probably just views all these possible cancellations as dealer stock now. I also know that they are not lasting long at least at RDS in PA. Most of those cancellations are sold to others waiting or new people looking to jump on one right away. I know based on seeing all the vehicles our dealer had on their preorder list, I would guess that for every 15-20 preorders confirmed, picked up, or 100% confirmed picking up, probably 1 is canceled. The last factors could also be people not getting approved for financing, economy isn’t great, and insurance costs. The insurance for us from State Farm was outstanding actually.

reauxheaux · Dec 29, 2023

GPFACTOR said:
Also, based on what our dealer told us (RDS in PA) there are a few people that actually screwed up their first order, placed a second, and Ineos still made both. So some of them are just waiting on their second one. Since Ineos made it impossible to change anything on your order, I know a few people that wanted to add a few important things they left out of their first build, and opted to wait for their second, or find another cancellation. Ineos probably just views all these possible cancellations as dealer stock now.

Not positive that is what is happening with mine, but it seems I remember the dealer saying they were keeping the order coming for my second one.

I canceled the 2nd configuration via Ineos back in July or so but they are intent on going through with the build I guess.

MileHigh · Dec 29, 2023

It will be interesting to see how long these stay around and if there is a price break or cost plus. If it ends up that the ‘misfits’ re going for under sticker, then the pre-orders will no incentive to take possession, they can just hold off and get it at a discount. A lot of people have said bad things about the dealers and how they might screw us, but I’d have to say that in all this, the dealers are taking on a lot of risk- especially if they own the inventory if it sells or not…

TanisIndependentTraders · Dec 29, 2023

crickets from Knauz even though supposedly we're on a "list." This would be for a vehicle in addition to the one I ordered.

GPFACTOR · Dec 30, 2023

MileHigh said:
It will be interesting to see how long these stay around and if there is a price break or cost plus. If it ends up that the ‘misfits’ re going for under sticker, then the pre-orders will no incentive to take possession, they can just hold off and get it at a discount. A lot of people have said bad things about the dealers and how they might screw us, but I’d have to say that in all this, the dealers are taking on a lot of risk- especially if they own the inventory if it sells or not…

This is true. I can only rate our experiences with RDS in PA and we know KO in MA as well, and they have been nothing but stand up through the entire process. No price games, no question on parts, up front about some of the gremlins, etc. It saddens me to hear about people having bad experiences with their dealers. Just stinks to hear and definitely not something that helps Ineos or the customers first and foremost.

Jeffrey · Dec 30, 2023

Trialmaster said:
Been watching Forbes Youtube channel and without getting into politics - it would seem that politicians are hell bent on ruining the USA (no worries Europe is going through the same self destruction process). I fear for our children.....

And you're just noticing this now? Been going on for decades here.....

shiv.nandak · Dec 30, 2023

I am very close to backing out and here are the reasons:

- I was one of the first backers, I reserved minutes after the reservations were opened 2 years ago. Despite this I see many people that have ordered as soon as this year taking delivery. Mine has been sitting in Baltimore since mid Nov. I am aware that I have the tow package which is experiencing delays. But I have seen people with the tow package taking delivery at the same dealer. It doesn't matter to me where the fault lies, the result is that some early supporters like me feel forgotten.
- To add insult to injury the dealer offered me an insulting trade in offer which is $2500+ lower than many cash offers from companies like Caravana. This essentially means that they can take my car in and sell it to Caravana for a $2500 profit the same day.
- Interest rates are high
- Uncertain economy
- Might have to deal with first batch issues while not even enjoying early delivery

AngusMacG · Dec 30, 2023

GPFACTOR said:
This is true. I can only rate our experiences with RDS in PA and we know KO in MA as well, and they have been nothing but stand up through the entire process. No price games, no question on parts, up front about some of the gremlins, etc. It saddens me to hear about people having bad experiences with their dealers. Just stinks to hear and definitely not something that helps Ineos or the customers first and foremost.

Only issue w/KO is not having their dealer license. Sucks knowing the vehicle is here but you Cant actually buy it. Ineos isn’t helping by not allowing those that choose to buy thru another dealer like Curry

anand · Dec 30, 2023

shiv.nandak said:
- I was one of the first backers, I reserved minutes after the reservations were opened 2 years ago. Despite this I see many people that have ordered as soon as this year taking delivery. Mine has been sitting in Baltimore since mid Nov. I am aware that I have the tow package which is experiencing delays. But I have seen people with the tow package taking delivery at the same dealer. It doesn't matter to me where the fault lies, the result is that some early supporters like me feel forgotten.

At least yours has been built already.... Mine is now 4 months behind it's original build estimate, and with no official explanation given by anyone. And, not to toot my horn or expect any sort of preferential treatment, but I keep in touch with a number of IA employees multiple times a week (from our time on the PTO2 tour together) and my better half is all over their website/marketing...

To get back to the OP, I believe every dealer has a number of available units (either currently or coming in over the next coming months). I believe a lot of that had to do with the fact that people lost absolutely nothing by placing orders. Additionally, I know a good number of people placed second orders for vehicles after changing their minds on options/colors/etc, and thus the first units are now arriving and don't have a buyer. I almost switched to a currently-stateside and unsold unit in lieu of mine, but I'm not willing to switch to carpet.

lightning · Dec 30, 2023

People are backing out in the U.K. because of the economic climate that's changed since they placed their order.

Not through any fault of the vehicle. Although the price has risen significantly and the cheapest version is now £65,000 ($82,800) which gets you a base specification 2-seat Commercial version.

shiv.nandak · Dec 30, 2023

anand said:
At least yours has been built already.... Mine is now 4 months behind it's original build estimate, and with no official explanation given by anyone.

I assume you have directly contacted Ineos to confirm the production status. The website is still showing mine as "Pre-ordered" and not even "In production" lol.

anand · Dec 30, 2023

shiv.nandak said:
I assume you have directly contacted Ineos to confirm the production status. The website is still showing mine as "Pre-ordered" and not even "In production" lol.

Multiple times, the website portal still tells me Q3 '23 delivery, and oddly, hasn't shown dealer contact information for the past few months....

The customer support email went dark on me after a Dec. 3rd email (and follow ups that went unanswered) in regards to switching dealers (I was told it had been handled, but the dealer didn't have any of my info yet, so I reached back out to Ineos). I chatted (through the website) today, and was told that it "should" be in production, but no VIN exists yet, and that the individual in customer support I was dealing with was "not very familiar" with the process or timelines, but that I would be contacted "as the vehicle nears the end of production". Effectively, it was a 13 minute chat that got me absolutely no concrete information, no actual answer to my question (confirming my dealer swap), and no reason as to why a handful of emails sent over the past 3 weeks have gone unanswered. I should add, I'm 99.9% sure the individual I chatted with (Mark) is in the UK, just like all the previous customer service people I've talked to. IA in the US operates with a fairly small team as everything is kept "in house" in the UK

shiv.nandak · Dec 30, 2023

anand said:
Multiple times, the website portal still tells me Q3 '23 delivery, and oddly, hasn't shown dealer contact information for the past few months....

The customer support email went dark on me after a Dec. 3rd email (and follow ups that went unanswered) in regards to switching dealers (I was told it had been handled, but the dealer didn't have any of my info yet, so I reached back out to Ineos). I chatted (through the website) today, and was told that it "should" be in production, but no VIN exists yet, and that the individual in customer support I was dealing with was "not very familiar" with the process or timelines, but that I would be contacted "as the vehicle nears the end of production". Effectively, it was a 13 minute chat that got me absolutely no concrete information, no actual answer to my question (confirming my dealer swap), and no reason as to why a handful of emails sent over the past 3 weeks have gone unanswered. I should add, I'm 99.9% sure the individual I chatted with (Mark) is in the UK, just like all the previous customer service people I've talked to. IA in the US operates with a fairly small team as everything is kept "in house" in the UK

On the bright side, I would expect any early issues to be fixed on your build.

moosetown · Dec 30, 2023

Two cancelled orders and people are using it to reaffirm their personal politics, lol.

Sela Green · Dec 30, 2023

I will have an Ineos Grenadier tomorrow...

Lemon35 · Dec 30, 2023

shiv.nandak said:
I assume you have directly contacted Ineos to confirm the production status. The website is still showing mine as "Pre-ordered" and not even "In production" lol.

Give up on this function all together. Mine has shown pre-order planning since late June... Started driving mine 10 days ago

Once you have a dealer best to request a VIN and track through them.

Jeffrey · Dec 30, 2023

shiv.nandak said:
I assume you have directly contacted Ineos to confirm the production status. The website is still showing mine as "Pre-ordered" and not even "In production" lol.

Clearly you haven't read all the posts here about the lack of 'expected order'. None of what you think matters is true. Sorry for your frustration, but you're better off no longer thinking about your dates and deposit times. You'll only frustrate yourself further. If you can't wait, many dealers have available stock right now. I know Rusnak in CA does.

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