Hey there - stuck between restored 110 and Grenadier

Eyedogtor · Dec 4, 2023

Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

[ Adam ] · Dec 4, 2023

Have you ever lived with a 110? I mean really driven one for more than a test drive?

Eyedogtor · Dec 4, 2023

Thanks Junx - I hear you, and the honest answer is no. However, even little things - like the incredible window ledge to rest your arm in the Grenadier, vs. not knowing what to do with your left arm in the LHD Defender makes me realize that the defender may seem intriguing from afar, but living with it is another story. That, and 95% of all vintage 110s listed on Bring a Trailer and other auction sites are from people that bought them less than a year ago....which gives you pause as well. That, and the market for them has tanked over the past 9 months.

Pat

Krabby · Dec 4, 2023

I am not in the same position, but if I were to place myself in it, I would be torn as well. Not knowing the spec of the 110 makes it less clear, but regardless, it's a tough decision. Moreover, I'm not sure how finances fit in, how tall you are (Defenders might not fit well the taller you get), time frames, etc.

For perspective, I have a TM on order with a very nice spec that includes the most contemporary of drivetrains - BMW straight 6, ZF 8-speed, Tremec transfer case ... AND a 5 year warranty. So it's a no brainer compared to say a stock '90s D110.

But, if I could basically take a "Grenadier" and stick it inside a 110 body I certainly might as the 110 just looks better to me (but I'm a LR tragic as they say and owned and adored a SWB Series II). So, a "new," proper Defender on a galvy Marsland frame (with NAS-style Safety Devices cage), modern drive train (maybe a straight-6 no Ad-blue BS diesel or a nice small-block with a trans, transfer case, axels, rear end, brakes, etc designed for it), and a contemporary interior with up-to-date tech, I would seriously have to be held back (mind you ignoring cost and time).

On the other hand, the Grenadier checks most of those boxes too, comes with a warranty and dealer support (albeit light at the moment), and is eons safer in every possible metric. So here's where use comes into the decision process. Are you just puttering about town and back roads to clients' farms? Daily driver that involves a highway commute? Off-road toy? Kid-filled school run mobile?

I know, I'm a big help here, confusing you more with all these things to consider, but it's a big decision.

Gun to my head decision, Grenadier. Gun to my heart, D110.

BTW, welcome aboard. We're huge All Things fans in our household! But the new version thus far is just getting into WWII so no Land Rovers yet - James putters about in Rover 75.

crashnburn · Dec 4, 2023

Goalie35 said:
Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

Welcome!

When you say "done the way you want it", what makes it "more" than a Grenadier?

I have a D90 200tdi which I drive on the weekends and would find it difficult to be a daily driver, unless I upgrade the interior, put some sound barrier (being a diesel), etc, etc.
I have been putting upgrades on hold since I am waiting for the Grenadier delivery (Q1).

If you can test drive a restored/well-built 110, you can decide what suits you.

Cheshire cat · Dec 4, 2023

Goalie35 said:
Hello all,

Great to meet everyone. I'm up in New England (Maine and Massachusetts) and had been planning for the last two years to order a restored 110 through a UK based group that I have developed a good relationship with over the past year. I love the idea of the history of the Defender, the fact that it is purpose-built, the looks and uniqueness...etc.

Last year when I read more about the Grenadier, I put a deposit down just in case......Well, yesterday I went and say one and did a full test-drive and now I'm stuck, because I really do like it. I ordered a well optioned Trialmaster in Magic Muchroom, and part of me thought after seeing one in the wild and driving it, I would scratch it off the list - but that didn't happen. While it lacks the history and vinatge character of the Defender (I'm a Veterinarian, so I always think James Herriot when I see one), it has a lot of the attributes I'm looking for....so It's tough.

I currently drive a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited and an Audi RS7 (I'd keep the Jeep because I do love it), so this would be a true additional car. Price would be about $98k for the Grenadier, the Resto would be about $30-$40k more if done the way I want it.

I know it SEEMS crazy to cross shop the two vehicles, but I just read a R&T article, and I guess it actually isn't that uncommon. Anyone else been in this position...and thoughts? I know I just need to decide, but thought I would share.

Regardless, it's wonderful to meet everyone and learn from you all - awesome forum and community,

I have owned my Defender for 20 years and truly loved it, until. My new Grenadier makes me feel the same way as my Defender always made me feel. The difference is, the Grenadier is bang up to date in a way that even the best restomod won’t be able to match. I still have my Defender but since the Grenadier arrived, after 20 years, I am not quite so keen to drive it anymore. The Defender is truly iconic but no longer an everyday vehicle in the same way as the Grenadier. In my opinion anyway.

[ Adam ] · Dec 4, 2023

Goalie35 said:
Thanks Junx - I hear you, and the honest answer is no. However, even little things - like the incredible window ledge to rest your arm in the Grenadier, vs. not knowing what to do with your left arm in the LHD Defender makes me realize that the defender may seem intriguing from afar, but living with it is another story. That, and 95% of all vintage 110s listed on Bring a Trailer and other auction sites are from people that bought them less than a year ago....which gives you pause as well. That, and the market for them has tanked over the past 9 months.

Pat

Defenders are great - I owned a 90 for several years and I'm currently doing a restoration of a NAS 110 - but they are fundamentally built on 1950's era british technology and manufacturing. They are nothing like a modern vehicle and I think you'd quickly tire of driving one. There are special people in the world who daily drive them, but I am not one of them.

They are wonderful, amazing driving experiences - full of nostalgia and character. But they are drafty, leaky and loud - and that's just sitting still. Think tractor with an aluminum tent enclosure, rather than modern automobile.

The Grenadier is everything I wanted to make a Defender, but never could - I knew that from the first moment I sat in one and only confirmed it with my test drive.

bazooka tooth · Dec 4, 2023

I own a 1992 D90 with a 200tdi and it's essentially a daily driver, but I recognize it for what it is and accept the "rough edges" that come with living with one every day. Simply put I just smile when I'm sitting behind the wheel of it.

Would it be the same with a Grenny, I'm fairly sure it will be. I've seen it enough, poked around it enough and drove it long enough to pull the trigger on it. I plan to keep the D90 and make the IG my daily; the D90 is not a bespoke ECR build, it's a simple and honest ROW example that has been a joy to drive, even if I have put thousands into it. Maybe this helps.

Jeremy996 · Dec 4, 2023

I was one of the lunatics who daily drove a classic "Defender", in my case a 1989 LR110CSW with a 200Tdi in the place of the original Turbo diesel, (the engine the British Army rejected as being objectively terrible: the Army committed to the 300Tdi). Much as I loved it, after 13,000 miles in the Grenadier, I would not go back.

The emotional connection with the LR110 was great; it had a full galvanised chassis build in my hands and 200,000+ miles driven after the rebuild, http://www.jeremymedwards.co.uk/Site/Land_Rover_Blog/Entries/2008/5/24_Durable_Car_Ownership.html

My wife was worried that when I got the 1991 D90 back on the road I would want to keep it as a pet, but the decision was easy and it was sold as well. All of the square rigged LRs suffer from being a little bit too small for modern adults, a little bit too needy for maintenance, too prone to water leaks, underpowered in standard form and full of design that was acceptable in the 1960s but archaic in the 2020s. You can fit a better engine, but then you break the transmission instead.

After 18 years of LR obsession, I am now in rehab; I will never be able to ignore square LRs, but I know I do not want one as a daily driver. (A bit like an alcohol problem, but better for your liver).

Tom109 · Dec 4, 2023

Long-time LR owner and fanatic here, still own a '95 RRC LWB and '65 IIa exMod 109. While my wife and I share a fond appreciation for the 110 we've never owned one. Why? Well, North America - price of entry is way too high for what you get and the work required after you get it! There are so many great Landies out there, but none that can compete with the Gren for my dollars.

I will never part with my 109. I struggle, but plan to sell the RRC - it's too nice of a well-preserved time capsule for me properly enjoy!

grnamin · Dec 4, 2023

I invested in a full D110 restoration project. After seeing everything involved in the restoration process, I would not go with a 110. That's why I pre-ordered a Grenadier.

bazooka tooth · Dec 4, 2023

I recently sold my 1995 RRC LWB and go back and forth from relief to heartache.

Krabby · Dec 4, 2023

bazooka tooth said:
I recently sold my 1995 RRC LWB and go back and forth from relief to heartache.

Did you go Green and White on your Gren?

JonSutton · Dec 4, 2023

Personally my 110 has more character and is very good off-highway but the Gren is comfy, warm, quiet, civilised. I don’t yet feel totally bonded to the Gren, it’ll happen once I’ve done several thousand miles.
I would go with the Gren instead of a rebuilt 110 for ease of use and capability.

255/85 · Dec 4, 2023

Krabby said:
So, a "new," proper Defender on a galvy Marsland frame (with NAS-style Safety Devices cage), modern drive train (maybe a straight-6 no Ad-blue BS diesel or a nice small-block with a trans, transfer case, axels, rear end, brakes, etc designed for it), and a contemporary interior with up-to-date tech,

Unfortunately you can't legally import a Defender with a new frame. Therefore, if you're importing a turn key Defender, you'll have to pay crazy prices for a frame resto on top of everything else which I don't think is worth it except for a true family heirloom (you don't have one) or little Juey despite what the collectors claim.

I think it's faster, simpler and less costly to do the work statesside and swap the parts to a new frame with the vehicle sitting right next to it. Plus, unless you know Defender minutiae well you'll invariably end up with a hodge-podge mixture of parts from various years/types/models/countries of origin all covered up with a fancy paint job. It's how restoration shops work. Even the very best houses do this despite claiming they don't unless you're there everyday watching the process. Once you tire of it your "restored" LR will end up in someone else's hands leaving them to sort out the mess. They will curse you and your progeny ever after.

Importing an unrestored one is just as dangerous. You'll never know what you're really buying until after the dollars trade hands - if ever. I'd suggest you go drive a few documented NAS Defenders in good condition then see how much it will cost to turn one into the vehicle you really want it to be. Then add XX% for surprises.

Or you could buy a Grenadier.

Andiamo · Dec 4, 2023

I went down this road as well. Have almost picked up a NAS D90 multiple times over the years. Even looked into having a restored one built and shipped over. In the end I just couldn’t justify the price and, having driven them plenty of times, realized it would have to be a second or third vehicle for me. For what I do for a living it could never be a daily driver unfortunately. When the Grenadier became an option I jumped at the opportunity. To me it’s everything I loved about the original Defenders and G-Wagons without the drawbacks.

Commuted enough that I just sold my new Defender last week and hopefully taking possession of our Grenadier soon!

Catpaw4x4 · Dec 4, 2023

junx said:
Defenders are great - I owned a 90 for several years and I'm currently doing a restoration of a NAS 110 - but they are fundamentally built on 1950's era british technology and manufacturing. They are nothing like a modern vehicle and I think you'd quickly tire of driving one. There are special people in the world who daily drive them, but I am not one of them.

They are wonderful, amazing driving experiences - full of nostalgia and character. But they are drafty, leaky and loud - and that's just sitting still. Think tractor with an aluminum tent enclosure, rather than modern automobile.

The Grenadier is everything I wanted to make a Defender, but never could - I knew that from the first moment I sat in one and only confirmed it with my test drive.

Defenders were once described to me as a "British Breadbox on wheels".

Can't import anything less than 25 yrs old so eliminates any preTata motors Defenders.
Agree -
"The Grenadier is everything I wanted to make a Defender, but never could - I knew that from the first moment I sat in one and only confirmed it with my test drive"

rovie · Dec 4, 2023

Catpaw4x4 said:
Defenders were once described to me as a "British Breadbox on wheels".
Can't import anything less than 25 yrs old so eliminates any preTata motors Defenders.
Agree -
"The Grenadier is everything I wanted to make a Defender, but never could - I knew that from the first moment I sat in one and only confirmed it with my test drive"

There are good restored Defenders that are more than 25 years old and can be exported to the USA without any problems. I know a good workshop in UK that restores vehicles according to your wishes.

Catpaw4x4 · Dec 4, 2023

rovie said:
There are good restored Defenders that are more than 25 years old and can be exported to the USA without any problems. I know a good workshop in UK that restores vehicles according to your wishes.

Very good to know! Thank you!

spikemd · Dec 4, 2023

I have an old Defender 110(1991) with new Cummins R2.8T, a new 2020 Defender 110 and have been 'test driving' the Grenadier for the past week. All totally different vehicles. Nostalgia for the old 110 led me to import one from Spain and have been working the past 5 years modfiying it. But now it sits on 37s and is a beast. The new 110 is refined and shares little with the old Defender other than the name. Comfortable, spacious and amazingly capable offroad with elec locking rear diff. It has seen many miles offroad as that is the main reason I bought it. After driving the Grenadier the past few days, it truly feels like an updated old 110. Sitting position is higher than new 110, looks so much like the old one, its uncanny. Not quite as smooth as new 110 but its coils and feels very solid. Took it on some dirt breifly and soaks up the bumps. The new D110 is fully electronic (54+ computers!) which makes things convenient, all the lane departure, adaptive cruise, phone integration, big screens, etc. The Grenadier was purposely built without those elctronic nannies and ideally should be more reliable in the future. You are engaged when driving it. It feels like it has more soul. I am excited about it and its a bold truck not built for the masses. I think it is the most perfect new overlanding vehicle out there.

My buddy does LS swaps on restored old Defenders/Arkonik vehicles (50+ trucks). I have seen tons and driven many $100k to $200k+ vehicles he has built. While so much better than when they came out of the factory, again, different machine entirely. 99% of those trucks will never see dirt. The have put sound deadening, new interiors and plenty of power into the old vehicles. But they still have the atrocious ergonomics of the original. New Scheelman seats helps immensely but I had to cut and modify my seatbox to fit properly. If you are just driving it for show, a resto-mod old Defender is awesome. If you are driving it offroad and long distances, the new Grenadier is way better.

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Hey there - stuck between restored 110 and Grenadier

Eyedogtor

[ Adam ]

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Eyedogtor

Krabby

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crashnburn

Cheshire cat

[ Adam ]

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bazooka tooth

Jeremy996

Tom109

grnamin

bazooka tooth

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