Americas USA Payload Stickers

Maverick10gk · Nov 19, 2023

Hello All,

I saw two demo grenadiers during a recent test drive. One was a trial master and the other a field master. I looked at both of their payload stickers and they are showing only around 814lbs?

Surely this is some type of mistake. Can anyone confirm?

Regards,
Kenneth

IG_in_AZ · Nov 19, 2023

Depending on how they're spec'd, that is entirely possible. Several threads, primarily from our Australian brothers regarding cargo / passenger load capacity, as spec'd vs. bare bones brochure specifications. Winch? Roof rack? Dual batteries (standard in TM)? It all reduces available load.

Catpaw4x4 · Nov 19, 2023

Maverick10gk said:
Hello All,

I saw two demo grenadiers during a recent test drive. One was a trial master and the other a field master. I looked at both of their payload stickers and they are showing only around 814lbs?

Surely this is some type of mistake. Can anyone confirm?

Regards,
Kenneth

So this is rather confusing. From just Googling ...
Compared to the SUV version, its wheelbase has been stretched by 305 mm (12.0 in) to fit the bed, which has a maximum payload capacity of 760 kg (1,680 lb). The load bay measures 1,564 mm (61.6 in) long and 1,619 mm (63.7 in), ensuring it can accommodate a standard Euro pallet.
Then there is this ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8mP1riKJws
(from Australia)
And from page 48 of the US brochure ...
Okay smart people is there a "final" answer??

Sam · Nov 20, 2023

Maverick10gk said:
Hello All,

I saw two demo grenadiers during a recent test drive. One was a trial master and the other a field master. I looked at both of their payload stickers and they are showing only around 814lbs?

Surely this is some type of mistake. Can anyone confirm?

Regards,
Kenneth

surely this sticker just lists the 'payload' capacity of the occupants only, not the overall payload. i.e. 5 people

like you would see in a lift (escalator)

Asnes · Nov 20, 2023

Maverick10gk said:
Hello All,

I saw two demo grenadiers during a recent test drive. One was a trial master and the other a field master. I looked at both of their payload stickers and they are showing only around 814lbs?

Surely this is some type of mistake. Can anyone confirm?

Regards,
Kenneth

Yeah something is up. A honda civic has slightly more payload than indicated on that door sticker.

I wonder if they had to de-rate the GVWR for some reason. Need to see that secondary GVWR sticker.

I’ll be taking my truck over CAT scale when I get it to know for certain where it is sitting.

Maverick10gk · Nov 20, 2023

So that sticker was from a field master with no other upgrades on it. So it didn’t have a roof rack or a winch on it. I hope they didn’t have to derate the gvwr. I’ll go back and snap another pic of the gvwr sticker.

stickshifter · Nov 22, 2023

Gas-powered (petrol) Trialmaster with a winch, no roof rack, no tow hitch, no safari windows.

Payload = 274 kg or 604 pounds (see photo).

Stripped down, the payload of the gas-powered Grenadier is supposed to be 1,840 pounds. It doesn't seem possible that the added equipment of the Trialmaster (diff lockers, raised air intake, ladder, the delta between the KO2 and the stock tire, plus a couple of other items I can't recall), plus the weight of the winch, could sum to over 1,200 pounds. Also, it seemed that the different springs being provided with the increased weight were supposed to offset some of that weight, and preserve - at least to some degree - the payload.

Its hard for me to believe that the Trialmaster, with a winch, only has a payload of 604 pounds. Payload was supposed to be something that separated the Grenadier from all other mid-size 4x4 (at least here in the North American market).

Jeep Wranglers have a notoriously low payload. The payload in the 4-door Wrangler Rubicon, with the 3.6 Pentastar, which comes standard with diff lockers and a 33-inch tire, but not equipped with a winch, and not equipped with steel bumpers, is 1,327 pounds. Based on a very quick google, the delta for the steel bumpers (i.e. the weight increase over the stock bumpers) is around 65 pounds, plus another 16 pounds for the steel skid plate in the front (let's round-up the steel bumper package to an extra 100 pounds). A good winch weighs 75-100 pounds (let's call it 100 pounds). The hard top weighs around 125 pounds more than the soft top. So... if you add on all these options (hard top, steel bumpers, and a winch), you are now down to around 1,000 pounds of payload. As an aside, the auto transmission in the Jeep actually has 20-30 pounds more payload than the manual.

Is it possible that - when similarly equipped - the Jeep has 400 pounds more payload than the Grenadier? This can't be right.

Sam · Nov 22, 2023

Sam said:
surely this sticker just lists the 'payload' capacity of the occupants only, not the overall payload. i.e. 5 people

like you would see in a lift (escalator)

I'll say it again ....

... or perhaps this is the load rating of the tyre - per tyre?

James · Nov 22, 2023

stickshifter said:
Gas-powered (petrol) Trialmaster with a winch, no roof rack, no tow hitch, no safari windows.

Payload = 274 kg or 604 pounds (see photo).

Stripped down, the payload of the gas-powered Grenadier is supposed to be 1,840 pounds. It doesn't seem possible that the added equipment of the Trialmaster (diff lockers, raised air intake, ladder, the delta between the KO2 and the stock tire, plus a couple of other items I can't recall), plus the weight of the winch, could sum to over 1,200 pounds. Also, it seemed that the different springs being provided with the increased weight were supposed to offset some of that weight, and preserve - at least to some degree - the payload.

Its hard for me to believe that the Trialmaster, with a winch, only has a payload of 604 pounds. Payload was supposed to be something that separated the Grenadier from all other mid-size 4x4 (at least here in the North American market).

Jeep Wranglers have a notoriously low payload. The payload in the 4-door Wrangler Rubicon, with the 3.6 Pentastar, which comes standard with diff lockers and a 33-inch tire, but not equipped with a winch, and not equipped with steel bumpers, is 1,327 pounds. Based on a very quick google, the delta for the steel bumpers (i.e. the weight increase over the stock bumpers) is around 65 pounds, plus another 16 pounds for the steel skid plate in the front (let's round-up the steel bumper package to an extra 100 pounds). A good winch weighs 75-100 pounds (let's call it 100 pounds). The hard top weighs around 125 pounds more than the soft top. So... if you add on all these options (hard top, steel bumpers, and a winch), you are now down to around 1,000 pounds of payload. As an aside, the auto transmission in the Jeep actually has 20-30 pounds more payload than the manual.

Is it possible that - when similarly equipped - the Jeep has 400 pounds more payload than the Grenadier? This can't be right.

View attachment 7833415

The payloads range around 800-900kg for all versions of grenadier in australia.
there’s no reasons I can think of that would change the US figure more than a few kg. Maybe demonstrators are running ahead of full homologation and type approval?
is it normal for your labels to be in french and english? Would have expected spanish before being concerned with quebecois…

I fully expect easy gvm upgrades by the way, I believe the car was engineered for a 1000kg payload, but the limiting factor was the pretty much global category limit of 3500 total. In countries where that is possible, I wouldnt sweat it, its built better than anything else Ive seen short of a unimog.

ADVAW8S · Nov 22, 2023

I'm putting this out there as it may make a ton sense based on what has been written. What if the 1 type is broken. Put a number 1 in front of the numbers and you get 1841 which is close to 840 and 1604 which would give you 250 in winch, diffs(different t axles) dual batteries, etc.

Krabby · Nov 22, 2023

James said:
...normal for your labels to be in french and english? Would have expected spanish before being concerned with quebecois…

They're selling IGs in Canada so that's probably why. It would probably make the most sense to just do all three, but I haven't heard IA mention Mexican dealership plans.

Shopkeep · Nov 22, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
I'm putting this out there as it may make a tone sense based on what has been written. What if the 1 type is broken. Put a number 1 in front of the numbers and you get 1841 which is close to 840 and 1604 which would give you 250 in winch, diffs(different t axles) dual batteries, etc.

Sticker says 274kgs which is 604lbs so not broken.

stickshifter · Nov 22, 2023

Sam said:
I'll say it again ....

... or perhaps this is the load rating of the tyre - per tyre?

View attachment 7833428

Payload in the U.S. refers to what a vehicle can legally carry, and it is calculated by subtracting the curb weight of the vehicle from the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Curb weight goes up with every extra feature you add to the base model (add a 100-pound winch, and you lose 100 pounds of payload). There is no distinction made between people and gear; payload capacity is payload capacity. So if payload is 600 pounds, and you (the driver) weigh 200 pounds, then - if you are traveling alone - you can carry an additional 400 pounds of gear. I can't imagine any 4x4 being sold with an actual payload of 600 pounds - especially one that is pitching itself as an overlander - so something must be off. But all I can say with certainty, is that this is the door sticker for a Trialmaster with a winch. If someone has actual confirmed info about how to interpret this door sticker please post.

EDIT: If someone wants a definition of payload from a source other than a random guy on a car forum, look here:

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gvwr-vs-gcwr/

holdmybeer · Nov 22, 2023

Holy crap. I did not expect to see numbers this low. This is pretty concerning.

One frustrating thing about official payload numbers is ... when you're in a highway accident and an insurance company takes a look at the accident details (and they will) ... a payload number lower than what your passengers, gear in the back, and everything on the roof adds up to might be all they need to refuse coverage.

Forget overlanding with water, fuel, roof rack, tent, etc. ... you can't even fill the seats with adult passengers and drive across town to dinner! Lolfuck.

moosetown · Nov 22, 2023

Considering this is less than a regular car, I think it's safe to assume it's either a complete mistake, or a special, extra cautious number for the demo vehicles.

Stu_Barnes · Nov 22, 2023

My money is they’re missing a digit before the 600 ish.
Or it’s a special sticker for demo vehicles only.

I’m trying to get an answer though but with it being thanksgiving in the USA it may be a bit slow.

MTNDOG · Nov 22, 2023

I had the same concern when researching the new Defender 110, the average payload sticker for a 5 seater is around 820lbs ish from the images owners have posted and from what I have seen posted on Cars and Bids. The Defender forums talk about this number being minus tongue weight or something along those lines. Maybe the same scenario for Ineos?

holdmybeer · Nov 22, 2023

Well my fingers are crossed that this payload sticker won't be typical of production North American Grenadiers.

Re/ towing ... If this payload rating is somewhat typical then it seems difficult for a Grenadier to achieve its 7,700 lb tow capacity without exceeding its payload rating first, due to tongue weight. (i.e. camping trailers are typically 10% with some brands like Airstreams closer to 15%)

Weight on the hitch (weight dropped anywhere into/onto the vehicle) is payload. A weight distribution hitch can shift some of that from rear to front axle and, I suppose, back to the trailer axles. But a hitched trailer always takes away from the tow vehicle's remaining payload.

Someone please correct me if I'm not seeing this correctly.

I ran into a simlilar issue evaluating a new Defender for its tow capability. Making it worse, JLR does not want to see weight distribution hitches on their vehicles, like most European manufacturers I think, because they lack a frame capable of transferring forces forward I assume.

FlyingTexan · Nov 22, 2023

Max tongue weight shouldn’t be more than 700lbs I don’t think

To be honest a vehicle does what it does, tows what it tows, carries what it carries. I’ve never in my life even heard of these numbers mattering anywhere. It’s not like guys with pickups weight their tool boxes when loaded up. Maybe people in TX just never cared. Only thing the stickers were good for is vin number

stickshifter · Nov 22, 2023

Stu_Barnes said:
My money is they’re missing a digit before the 600 ish.
Or it’s a special sticker for demo vehicles only.

I’m trying to get an answer though but with it being thanksgiving in the USA it may be a bit slow.

First - thanks for looking into it during the holiday week.

I thought about the possibility of a missing "1" in front of the "604", and hoped it was the case.

But - as I wrote in the original post - the payload is listed in both kg and pounds, and the two numbers are a match:

Payload = 274 kg or 604 pounds (see photo). 274 x 2.2 = 604 (if it were 1604 pounds it would be 729 kg).

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Americas USA Payload Stickers

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