Fire extinguisher mounts

MrMike · Jun 21, 2023

DCPU said:
Well said.

The photo in post #23 gor me.

Not as bad as a guy I saw with a block splitter mounted horizontally in the back of his 4x4 at head hight (directly behind him) with nothing but a pet barrier separating him from his maker, Darwin's theory at work I thought

Tomdoc · Jun 21, 2023

Barney said:
Hy, does anyone know how the original fire extinguisher is attached, what brand and how many kg it has. I want to buy one and fix it at the same position.

It is literally in the post two above
1 Kg

emax · Jun 23, 2023

MrMike said:
@emayou are correct in saying that they aren't effective if it is windy, but the warning on using CO2 is that it shouldn't be used in a confined space due to the obvious hazards, you can't win either way

Agree, but we are talking about a Grenadier context which means outdoor use, I think.

I know CO2 systems for e.g. IT equipment and data centers. Good for electronics, dangerous for humans. That's why there are tons of alarm horns, warning lights and signs in such environments.

I think we agree that CO2 is useless outdoors, and indoors it is problematic unless a professional concept with a warning system has been installed.

MrMike · Jun 23, 2023

emax said:
Agree, but we are talking about a Grenadier context which means outdoor use, I think.

I know CO2 systems for e.g. IT equipment and data centers. Good for electronics, dangerous for humans. That's why there are tons of alarm horns, warning lights and signs in such environments.

I think we agree that CO2 is useless outdoors, and indoors it is problematic unless a professional concept with a warning system has been installed.

So, I'm a complete novice on light aircraft, being a pilot what do you use in the cabin for such emergencies? (please don't say parachute

)

MarkH · Jun 23, 2023

Those Firestrykers are no good when there's a good amount of flames, you'd burn your hand trying to hold it close enough for it to do anything. Not to mention they're ridiculously overpriced. Not compliant either, in Oz anyway.

emax · Jun 23, 2023

MrMike said:
being a pilot what do you use in the cabin for such emergencies? (please don't say parachute )

In the WT9-Dynamic there is indeed a parachute installed - as is in the Cirrus SR22.

But in general, the traditional airplanes we fly in our club are mostly 15 years old or much older (e.g. a Piper from 1978). They don't have fire fighting equipment at all (but for commercial airplanes you better ask @Nomad or @Ingemar).

What we have are emergency procedures to follow in case of a fire. In a POH (@Jean Mercier "Pilot Operating Handbook") you always find them in Chapter three "Emergency Procedures". This chapter describes what to do upon

an engine failure upon start
an engine failure in flight
emergency landing
engine fire upon engine start
engine fire during flight
electrical fire and smoke in flight
electrical fire and smoke on ground
cabin fire in flight
oil pressure loss
carburettor icing
unwanted spins
...

and so on. None of these procedures is really reassuring. So the most important emergency equipment is your brain, nerves and skills. There is no other backup.

Fire on board is imo the most scary thing a pilot can experience.

And it certainly won't hurt to know the Lord's Prayer. After all, you are then usually closer to heaven than to earth.

MrMike · Jun 23, 2023

emax said:
In the WT9-Dynamic there is indeed a parachute installed - as is in the Cirrus SR22.

But in general, the traditional airplanes we fly in our club are mostly 15 years old or much older (e.g. a Piper from 1978). They don't have fire fighting equipment at all (but for commercial airplanes you better ask @Nomad).

What we have are emergency procedures to follow in case of a fire. In a POH (@Jean Mercier "Pilot Operating Handbook") you always find them in Chapter three "Emergency Procedures". This chapter describes what to do upon

an engine failure upon start

an engine failure in flight

emergency landing

engine fire upon engine start

engine fire during flight

electrical fire and smoke in flight

electrical fire and smoke on ground

cabin fire in flight

oil pressure loss

carburettor icing

unwanted spins

...

and so on. None of these procedures is really reassuring. So the most important emergency equipment is your brain, nerves and skills. There is no other backup.

Fire on board is imo the most scary thing a pilot can experience.

And it certainly won't hurt to know the Lord's Prayer. After all, you are then usually closer to heaven than to earth.

Thank you, very informative

Ovrland Bill · Jun 23, 2023

MrMike said:
So, I'm a complete novice on light aircraft, being a pilot what do you use in the cabin for such emergencies? (please don't say parachute )

MrMike said:
So, I'm a complete novice on light aircraft, being a pilot what do you use in the cabin for such emergencies? (please don't say parachute )

Halon fire extinguishers were in the cockpit of the commercial planes I flew and so I purchased one (in the photo) and mounted it in my Defender. There are several drawbacks:

1. Halon (1211) is bad for the planet, and the extinguisher I purchased was expensive, in part because it was filled with re-cycled Halon.
2. The cylinder must be emptied for safety testing and then refilled every few years, another expense and task.
3. Halon should not be used in a confined place. My drafty Defender Station Wagon may not fit that description, nevertheless I will NOT be sourcing a Halon ‘bottle’ for the Grenadier.

Ovrland Bill · Jun 23, 2023

Has anyone had experience with water based foam extinguishers for vehicle use? (Would they be less damaging to electrical components than the dry chemical type?)

emax · Jun 23, 2023

We have some fire experts in the forum, e.g. @McPharmer II which is even "Kreisbrandmeister Gefahrenstoffe" (District Fire Chief Hazardous Materials) in his district.

He will know for sure.

McPharmer II · Jun 23, 2023

Thank's for mentioning me

.
If you want an extinguisher, in my opinion a 2 litre aqua foam extinguisher is the best choice for a car.
It will cool down the hot parts for some time and is also usable for burning liquids.
A powder extinguisher will also kill the fire, but won't take the heat, so the fire will start again after a few minutes. Powder is a real mess and believe me you will cause a traffic jam when you use a powder extinguisher on the highway.
So your choice for water-foam is correct.
But always keep in mind you only have 2 litres. It will give you a short time window to get someone out of a burning car, but mostly everything is so heated up the fire will start again.

MrMike · Jun 24, 2023

Ovrland Bill said:
Has anyone had experience with water based foam extinguishers for vehicle use? (Would they be less damaging to electrical components than the dry chemical type?)

We use water/foam for all vehicle fires. Dry chem is not particularly useful as it doesn't take the heat out. Disconnecting the battery helps also but may not be practical. (23 years in the fire service)

MACS · Jun 25, 2023

For me this one works. It fits the compartment underneath passenger seat front. Also a foam unit has benefits. This one can stand temperatures below freezing point.

Fidei Defensor · Nov 15, 2023

Nobody has mentioned the horrible mess and damage done when you fire off a dry powder fire extinguisher! If you have an engine-bay fire, you may be better using a halon fire extinguisher? They are WAAAY more expensive than dry powder, but considering the possible damage a powder extinguisher will do, might be worth the expense. A 2.5. lb may be enough, but for a little more, get the 5lb! You can buy from Kidde but have to pay extra for the bracket. If you buy from 3HR, it comes with a bracket suitable for car mounting. Available from Amazon, but this is the company website (PS: I have the impression that the Kidde and 3Hr extinguishers are from the same factory: they look identical - except that you can chose the color of the 3HR, which might be an advantage if you want different fire supressant technologies in multiple extinguishers

HalGuard® Clean Agent Car Fire Extinguishers

Our HalGuard® and HalGuard® PRO automotive fire extinguishers offer top-tier fire protection with Halotron® 1 and Halon 1211 clean agents. These UL-Listed, rechargeable extinguishers attack fires fast without leaving a damaging residue to clean up. Perfect for hot rods, racing cars, classic...

www.h3rperformance.com

Fidei Defensor · Nov 15, 2023

MrMike said:
We use water/foam for all vehicle fires. Dry chem is not particularly useful as it doesn't take the heat out. Disconnecting the battery helps also but may not be practical. (23 years in the fire service)

Are you talking about portable/hand-held extinguishers or big one on a fire truck. I see you can find portable AR-AFFF extinguishers from Badger. As you mentioned, no good agsinst an electrical fire, but Good for the engine compartment? Would you recommend this model?

Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Stored Pressure Extinguisher, 2.5 Gallon

The Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Extinguisher is rated 1A:30B and is for use on Class A (ordinary combustibles) and B (flammable liquid) fires.

www.safetyemporium.com

MrMike · Nov 15, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
Are you talking about portable/hand-held extinguishers or big one on a fire truck. I see you can find portable AR-AFFF extinguishers from Badger. As you mentioned, no good agsinst an electrical fire, but Good for the engine compartment? Would you recommend this model?

Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Stored Pressure Extinguisher, 2.5 Gallon

The Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Extinguisher is rated 1A:30B and is for use on Class A (ordinary combustibles) and B (flammable liquid) fires.

www.safetyemporium.com

I'd recommend that type, but at that size it may be difficult to secure correctly. If you can get one smaller it may be easier to stow. But if not more is better than less when fighting fires, it would be my preferred type of extinguisher

MrMike · Nov 16, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
Are you talking about portable/hand-held extinguishers or big one on a fire truck. I see you can find portable AR-AFFF extinguishers from Badger. As you mentioned, no good agsinst an electrical fire, but Good for the engine compartment? Would you recommend this model?

Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Stored Pressure Extinguisher, 2.5 Gallon

The Badger F-250-2 Universal Ultra AR-AFFF Foam Extinguisher is rated 1A:30B and is for use on Class A (ordinary combustibles) and B (flammable liquid) fires.

www.safetyemporium.com

You can in fact make your own AFFF extinguisher, using a reusable compressed air extinguisher, add 6% detergent to the water and make sure it has a foam nozzle.

Fidei Defensor · Nov 16, 2023

MrMike said:
I'd recommend that type, but at that size it may be difficult to secure correctly. If you can get one smaller it may be easier to stow. But if not more is betterthan less when fightingfires, it would be my preferred type of extinguisher

Actially, the size is reasonable (25" by 9" diameter). Seems to me that if you have a fire, you may need a decent size! this one will give you >1.5 minutes discharge.
Just gotta mount it properly! there is a nice heavy bracket available: looks like you will need an internal Molle panel to secure it to!

NQ94 · Nov 16, 2023

Remember to check dry powder extinguisher every 6 to 12 months. Take the extinguisher from the bracket hold upside down and tap with a rubber mallet or piece of wood. This will loosen the dry powder that can settle and compact into a mass and limit the extinguishers ability also check the pressure gauge is in the green and not low.
After discharging a foam or dry powder on your engine or car (for a minor fire) try to clean the mess up immediately as the AFFF (foam) or dry powder is corrosive and can be aggressive on electrical parts and paint. I work for a company that has fire suppression systems on machinery and we have to discharge and major service the wet systems every 12 months. If we do not flush the pipes or the machine the foam corrodes the pipe fittings and machine parts. We work with companies like Chubb and Wormald fire systems daily.
Please consider some basic practical training or practice with family members using a fire extinguisher and fire blanket on a fire in a controlled environment as there are many people who panic or do not know the correct techniques. It is a bit like first aid, you may never use it but it is handy to know.
Something a lot of people don't know, engine coolant, ethylene glycol, propylene glycol is flammable and in a very fine mist can auto ignite (400°C) on a hot turbo or exhaust system and can fuel an engine fire because of the pressurized coolant system even after the engine is off.

MrMike · Nov 16, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
Actially, the size is reasonable (25" by 9" diameter). Seems to me that if you have a fire, you may need a decent size! this one will give you >1.5 minutes discharge.
Just gotta mount it properly! there is a nice heavy bracket available: looks like you will need an internal Molle panel to secure it to!

That looks very good

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