Removing the underseat trim panels / accessing or removing the batteries

Tom109 · Aug 1, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
My hypothesis: the "ghost consumer" are the electronics in the SmartPass itself!

What?

Jean Mercier · Aug 1, 2023

Tom109 said:
What?

Well, the SmartPass is an electronic device.
Therefore it is consuming electric energy.
Where does it get it's current from?
The main battery or the service battery?
I would guess it takes power by preference from the service battery.
Therefore the SmartPass is a consumer of the service battery, and the consumption LED lights up.

255/85 · Aug 1, 2023

I was told by Ctek that the Smartpass is powered by the Start battery and not the Service battery as per post #61 above.

Logsplitter · Aug 1, 2023

Standby current draw from smartpass is less than 7Ah per month

CTEK SMARTPASS 120S Power Management System

The CTEK SMARTPASS 120S is a 120A power management system designed to work best when used with the CTEK D250SE DC-DC charger. Suits all battery types.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

DCPU · Aug 3, 2023

So further to this post:
Post in thread 'Removing the underseat trim panels / accessing or removing the batteries' https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...moving-the-batteries.12412649/post-1333202065

I've now received answers back from CTEK Technical Support:

Q1. - Why would the temperature sensor appear to be shrink wrapped onto a ring connector and attached to the negative terminal of the service battery?
Q1 Answer: Strange attachment of the temp sensor. Usually, the hot spot area is on the top of the battery around + terminal.

Q2. - Why would the smart alternator cable not be attached (the vehicle does have a smart alternator)?
Q2 Answer: Connect the smart alternator cable to ignition on signal (KL15+) if you have a smart alternator. If you don´t know if your vehicle is equipped with a smart alternator? Connect it anyway.

Q3. Why is the LED between the service battery and output consumers permanently lit when nothing is connected to the Smartpass output terminal? Doesn't this indicate that the service battery is providing current to some consumers?
Q3. Answer:

[I've queried this as the light is not flashing and exclamation mark LED is not lit]

Q4. - Would there be any benefit to this system in fitting a D250SE but not attaching any solar power input?
Q4. Answer: Yes a D250SE will top charge your service battery. The reason of
above led indication can be missing D250SE or/and not activated smart alternator function?
[I don't understand the second sentence]

Q5. - Are there any wiring diagrams or schematics to show what's inside the Smartpass?
Q5. Answer Unfortunately, no diagrams. available, but a Smartpass 120S is a smart combination of relays (actually MOSFETS) that connects starter and service batteries. This enables current from your alternator to charge both batteries. The SMARTPASS 120S will not control the voltage applied to the service battery. For that you need a D250SE installed in parallel. The current through the SMARTPASS 120S to a service battery depends on the alternator output voltage, cable length/ dimension and the charge acceptance of your battery. The max continuous current is 120A. Start assistance. SMARTPASS 120S automatically connects the service and starter battery, if the starter battery on its own is unable to start the engine. After the start assistance function has been activated, SMARTPASS 120S will display a fault indication that remains until starting has been achieved without the use of the start assistance function.

DCPU · Aug 3, 2023

I'll be asking Ineos Customer Services to comment on the first two questions /answers.

DCPU · Aug 3, 2023

DCPU said:
Q3. Answer:
View attachment 7822179

[I've queried this as the light is not flashing and exclamation mark LED is not lit]

So supplementary question: "can I query your answer to Q3. If Battery Guard is activated then wouldn't the light be flashing? Mine is permanently illuminated. Also I'm not getting the ! (exclamation mark) LED illuminated."

And supplementary answer: "Constant lit is not any fault indication. It indicates "battery OK in service". Apologize, this is not stated in the manual."

DaBull · Aug 3, 2023

DCPU said:
So supplementary question: "can I query your answer to Q3. If Battery Guard is activated then wouldn't the light be flashing? Mine is permanently illuminated. Also I'm not getting the ! (exclamation mark) LED illuminated."

And supplementary answer: "Constant lit is not any fault indication. It indicates "battery OK in service". Apologize, this is not stated in the manual."

Hi DCPU, If we wanted to connect the red wire from the C-TEK Smartpass 120S, where and how do we connect it?
In C-TEK's response to you they stated Connect the smart alternator cable, (red wire) to ignition on signal (KL15+). Where do we find ignition on signal (KL15+). DaBull

ADVAW8S · Aug 3, 2023

DaBull said:
Hi DCPU, If we wanted to connect the red wire from the C-TEK Smartpass 120S, where and how do we connect it?
In C-TEK's response to you they stated Connect the smart alternator cable, (red wire) to ignition on signal (KL15+). Where do we find ignition on signal (KL15+). DaBull

Instead of trying g to run wite to ignition. It would make sense to jet a jump fuse and run it to the fuse box. It's closer and easier.

Logsplitter · Aug 3, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
Instead of trying g to run wite to ignition. It would make sense to jet a jump fuse and run it to the fuse box. It's closer and easier.

Is there a circuit or connection point in the battery tray that is only live when ignition is on and would that work to connect the smart alternator cable to.

ADVAW8S · Aug 3, 2023

Logsplitter said:
Is there a circuit or connection point in the battery tray that is only live when ignition is on and would that work to connect the smart alternator cable to.

I don't believe there would be but I am not expert. Here is what I was thinking and saw on 4x4 24/7. I also saw Simon do it for the Defender and running the winch instead of splicing cable.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/fuses-and-fuse-holders/fuse-taps-and-add-a-circuits.html&ved=2ahUKEwjP6ZXV9sCAAxXGAjQIHcyEBeIQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2U80CI5ZdbABc-6XwE9v_s

DenisM · Aug 3, 2023

Logsplitter said:
Is there a circuit or connection point in the battery tray that is only live when ignition is on and would that work to connect the smart alternator cable to.

The "Ignition -switched" signal wire to the DC-DC charger only requires a low amperage (5A) circuit. @ADVAW8S 's advice to use a jumper fuse in a suitable fuse box circuit is by far the best approach.

KDJDGrenadier · Aug 3, 2023

DenisM said:
The "Ignition -switched" signal wire to the DC-DC charger only requires a low amperage (5A) circuit. @ADVAW8S 's advice to use a jumper fuse in a suitable fuse box circuit is by far the best approach.

DenisM you wouldn't happen to know which fuse in the Grenadier to use the jumper fuse on?

MarkH · Aug 3, 2023

You could use a fuse tap on the 5A for power mirrors or the 7.5A for heated mirrors. Just check with tester.
I believe with Stop/Start those fuses/functions remain live so the Smartpass is not constantly switching on/off in traffic.

ADVAW8S · Aug 4, 2023

What about pulling it from the Gear shifter. We know that goes live as soon as you turn on the car. It's also 5amps

AnD3rew · Aug 4, 2023

Logsplitter said:
Is there a circuit or connection point in the battery tray that is only live when ignition is on and would that work to connect the smart alternator cable to.

There is a set of terminated wires in there I believe someone found that is connected to the circuit labelled air compressor/dust gun on the fuse box diagram. As I understand this there are 3 wires, a positive, a ground and an ignition wire that you can use for a relay. I think this could probably be used if I understand this correctly.

DCPU · Aug 4, 2023

DaBull said:
Hi DCPU, If we wanted to connect the red wire from the C-TEK Smartpass 120S, where and how do we connect it?
In C-TEK's response to you they stated Connect the smart alternator cable, (red wire) to ignition on signal (KL15+). Where do we find ignition on signal (KL15+). DaBull

I'll be getting a response from Ineos before deciding what way to go.

Logsplitter · Aug 4, 2023

AnD3rew said:
There is a set of terminated wires in there I believe someone found that is connected to the circuit labelled air compressor/dust gun on the fuse box diagram. As I understand this there are 3 wires, a positive, a ground and an ignition wire that you can use for a relay. I think this could probably be used if I understand this correctly.

I think that circuit is permanently live. It’s a few weeks back that I tested that myself and believe that’s the case.

Overland Journeyman · Aug 4, 2023

Ive had my D250se arrive in the mail today and i see there is a smart alternator red cable on this too. Do we need to attach 1/ both this one and the smartpass120s red cable to the alternator or 2/ one of them or 3/none of them? And reading above... can we do this to a fuse??
I note that the current cable on the 120s isnt attached at all, and the temp sensor is to the negative terminal not beside the positive one.

AnD3rew · Aug 4, 2023

Logsplitter said:
I think that circuit is permanently live. It’s a few weeks back that I tested that myself and believe that’s the case.

I would assume if there are three wires as someone else reported that the positive is permanently live, the earth is the earth and the ignition wire is live when the ignition is on in irder to power a relay. So that one, the ignition one would be what you connect to the smartpass alternator/ignition connection

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Removing the underseat trim panels / accessing or removing the batteries

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