Removing the underseat trim panels / accessing or removing the batteries

255/85 · Jul 28, 2023

Logsplitter said:
That doesn’t sound a lot of good then. If both batteries are down to that level or possibly lower for the start battery then not much hope of starting the engine I guess. I wonder if it can be changed to cut off if voltage goes below 12.3 for example, otherwise even if not using the service battery for auxiliary loads it would soon flatten anyway after a few days of pulse charging the start battery. I think I would prefer something like a voltage sensitive relay that disconnects the two batteries or the link between the two can even be disconnected manually although this wouldn’t be compatible with a smart alternator. I need to try and learn more about this set up before possibly being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

I haven't finished reading this thread but I thought I should add that Ctek told me that the only way to shut off the Smartpass was to disconnect it from the Start Battery. A simple switch or relay can be used. It will not use energy from the Service battery to stay "on". There must also be a 300a fuse going in and coming out of the unit and as close as possible.

I didn't ask directly about any remaining connected consumers as my interest was in having a removable Service battery with everything connected directly to it when needed and not to the Smartpass. The Smartpass does use energy for various functions and will place a drain on the Start battery if left connected - maybe 7a per month or thereabouts (iirc).

MarkH · Jul 29, 2023

PBD said:
Thanks Mark, but if Ineos have not connected the “smart alternators “ red wire, as on all the twin battery models, would the above scenario still apply?

Connecting the red wire allows the Smartpass to turn on and run at engine start so it doesn't have to rely on voltage sensing from the alternator. I don't know what the voltage threshold is for the Smartpass to 'turn on' (I need to check with Ctek), but if it's similar to VSRs it'll shut down when the alternator throttles back after about 20 mins of driving. Then as the voltage spikes with the regen braking it switches back on.
I think another reason Ineos/Ctek may have left the red wire disconnected is due to the stop/start system, especially in traffic. Not sure what effect it'd have on the Smartpass but it'd likely be constantly switching with each stop/start. I'm hoping eventually we can all switch the damn stop/start off with an OBD reader. You certainly don't want it when you're trying to charge the service battery, especially with a 250SE fitted and its ignition wire connected. There's a lot of variables to consider so I'll post back once I talk to a Ctek distributor here in AU.

DCPU · Jul 29, 2023

bakepl said:
Yes does seem a little odd nothing at all is connected to the consumer out of the smartpass. Perhaps was easier for all vehicles to be wired this way and remains the same, smartpass fitted or not....

I have posted previously that nothing is connected to the Smartpass based on reading the manual and looking at the Smartpass itself in the vehicle. One thing puzzles me though - the illuminated LED between the service battery and the consumers. Shouldn't this only be illuminated if something is connected to the Smartpass - and specifically to the consumer output terminal of the Smartpass?

DCPU · Jul 29, 2023

Another issue I noted but have not done anything about is the Smartpass temperature sensor. The CTEK manual is clear how this should be connected:

So why is it apparently shrink wrapped to a ring terminal and attached to the negative post?

As CTEK Technical Support have been very helpful in the past, I've asked them a few questions, and will post up any responses I get from them:

Q1. - Why would the temperature sensor appear to be shrink wrapped onto a ring connector and attached to the negative terminal of the service battery?
Q2. - Why would the smart alternator cable not be attached (the vehicle does have a smart alternator)?
Q3. Why is the LED between the service battery and output consumers permanently lit when nothing is connected to the Smartpass output terminal? Doesn't this indicate that the service battery is providing current to some consumers?
Q4. - Would there be any benefit to this system in fitting a D250SE but not attaching any solar power input?
Q5. - Are there any wiring diagrams or schematics to show what's inside the Smartpass?

I know there are answers already posted to some of these questions, but I thought it would be helpful to get answers directly from CTEK to compare and contrast.

Kruegerruda · Jul 29, 2023

I am a bit confused...
Why not change the CTEK 120 to a CTEK 250SE?
What is the benefit to have both?

MarkH · Jul 29, 2023

Kruegerruda said:
I am a bit confused...
Why not change the CTEK 120 to a CTEK 250SE?
What is the benefit to have both?

The 250SE can't do Start Assist. The Smartpass 120s boosts charging by up to 120A. It also allows you to run your fridge from the alternator while on the move letting the 250SE charge the service battery faster.

Jean Mercier · Jul 29, 2023

I removed my under seat trim panels (left side) thanks to the explanation of @DCPU.
I don't know if somebody made a guess on the purpose of "the gutter" in the back part of the trims, but I guess it is to drain the water or beer if you hose the back of the car or if your drunk passenger can't hold his beer

anymore.

Some people are unhappy with the difficulties of removing these trims and accessing the small MTA fuse box (MTA?

. Is this a brand?).
Therefore I took a drastic decision! I did cut the trim in two pieces and did put some kind of window to access the fuse box:

I will probably put some additional clips for mounting it back (see my white markings), and still am hesitating about the gutter: perhaps duct tape will do, as I don't have the intention to dismount that every week.

Comments are welcome.

Jean Mercier · Jul 30, 2023

This is the final result:

And for the dimensions (cm) of the fuse box window:

I also didn't like the loose wire bundle of the CTEK SmartPass, and fixed it:

bakepl · Jul 30, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
This is the final result:
View attachment 7821765

An for the dimensions (cm) of the fuse box window:
View attachment 7821766
I also didn't like the loose wire bundel of the CTEK SmartPass, and fixed them:
View attachment 7821767 View attachment 7821768

Great images thanks again Jean. Looks like they simply missed putting an access hole for those fuses.

Will you be moving the power feed that runs from buss-bar/fuse 'A' (shown in the left image) to the Aux fuse/relay box (shown the right hand image below) to the 'consumer' of the Ctek?

From memory I think DCPU mentioned the Aux fuse power feed comes from A into the Aux fuse box.

(moving it via a fuse of course)

KDJDGrenadier · Jul 31, 2023

Question to the group. I want to install my CTEK D250SE but first I need to isolate both the auxillary and the starter battery. Has anyone done this and if so did they just disconnect the negative terminals from both batteries? After reconnection of batteries will there be any software issues or codes to enter?

DCPU · Jul 31, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Some people are unhappy with the difficulties of removing these trims and accessing the small MTA fuse box (MTA? . Is this a brand?).

I believe it is.

Jean Mercier said:
Therefore I took a drastic decision! I did cut the trim in two pieces and did put some kind of window to access the fuse box:

I will probably put some additional clips for mounting it back (see my white markings), and still am hesitating about the gutter: perhaps duct tape will do, as I don't have the intention to dismount that every week.

Comments are welcome.

Yes, this has been taxing me.

I left it all out but did not like the the exposed studs in the footwell.

With just the two front pieces in that problem is solved - although the main battery is a little too hidden (I'd like better access to the terminals) and the back edges flap around as there's no fixings.

I also don't like the fuse boxes not being covered. I think I may have found a cover for the auxiliary fuse box but the make/model of the large main fuse box eludes me.

I messed about with some perspex/polycarb and think there may be a way to tie it all in with some Dzus fasteners or thumb nuts:

Jean Mercier · Jul 31, 2023

DCPU said:
I also don't like the fuse boxes not being covered. I think I may have found a cover for the auxiliary fuse box but the make/model of the large main fuse box eludes me.

I messed about with some perspex/polycarb and think there may be a way to tie it all in with some Dzus fasteners or thumb nuts:

I like the idea of transparency!
I don't like either the very exposed main fuse box, and was already thinking in buying some (transparent) plastic to make a cover.
Perhaps I will also dismount and cut the other rear trim (right side). But therefore I will need to dismount or tilt that damned rear seat.
I still want to put my DC/AC invertor in the remaining hole, although I still don't know why I need an invertor

AnD3rew · Jul 31, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
This is the final result:
View attachment 7821765

And for the dimensions (cm) of the fuse box window:
View attachment 7821766
I also didn't like the loose wire bundle of the CTEK SmartPass, and fixed it:
View attachment 7821767 View attachment 7821768

Seems like another opportunity for someone aftermarket like @Black Sheep to make a cover that lifts out, or hinges up.

Jean Mercier · Jul 31, 2023

AnD3rew said:
Seems like another opportunity for someone aftermarket like @Black Sheep to make a cover that lifts out, or hinges up.

In fact ... seems an opportunity for Ineos to improve their design!

AnD3rew · Jul 31, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
In fact ... seems an opportunity for Ineos to improve their design!

Indeed, although a lot of aftermarket is improving OE design

DenisM · Aug 1, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
I like the idea of transparency!
I don't like either the very exposed main fuse box, and was already thinking in buying some (transparent) plastic to make a cover.
Perhaps I will also dismount and cut the other rear trim (right side). But therefore I will need to dismount or tilt that damned rear seat.
I still want to put my DC/AC invertor in the remaining hole, although I still don't know why I need an invertor

the inverter provides opportunities when you discover your current needs might alternate!

DCPU · Aug 1, 2023

AnD3rew said:
Indeed, although a lot of aftermarket is improving OE design

I think the rear seat trim belongs in one of those internet threads that includes things like:

And just for JM and his safari roof:

DCPU · Aug 1, 2023

DCPU said:
I have posted previously that nothing is connected to the Smartpass based on reading the manual and looking at the Smartpass itself in the vehicle. One thing puzzles me though - the illuminated LED between the service battery and the consumers. Shouldn't this only be illuminated if something is connected to the Smartpass - and specifically to the consumer output terminal of the Smartpass?

View attachment 7821667

And as a further comment on this, I've had it on a CTEK charger for a couple of days and noticed this morning that the service battery is no longer providing power to the (non existent) Smartpass consumers but rather the power is coming direct from the alternator (or in this case, I assume the CTEK charger):

Question remains - where is this power going?

ADVAW8S · Aug 1, 2023

The Flux capacitor?

Jean Mercier · Aug 1, 2023

DCPU said:
And as a further comment on this, I've had it on a CTEK charger for a couple of days and noticed this morning that the service battery is no longer providing power to the (non existent) Smartpass consumers but rather the power is coming direct from the alternator (or in this case, I assume the CTEK charger):
View attachment 7821956

Question remains - where is this power going?

Right now mine is like this: the middle one is blinking slowly (orange), therefore the service battery is providing power to the main battery.
And indeed there is some "ghost consumer": the right orange (upper in the picture) is on.

My hypothesis: the "ghost consumer" are the electronics in the SmartPass itself!

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Removing the underseat trim panels / accessing or removing the batteries

255/85

MarkH

DCPU

DCPU

Kruegerruda

MarkH

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Jean Mercier

GG#920

bakepl

KDJDGrenadier

DCPU

Jean Mercier

GG#920

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

Jean Mercier

GG#920

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

DenisM

DCPU

DCPU

ADVAW8S

Global Grenadier 0044

Jean Mercier

GG#920

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